Walton on the hill 27E Liverpool, EM gauge.

[barrowroad]

Update on the Brassmasters fold up easichas for the Bachmann 4F . I made up the coupling rods and have fitted the Ultrascale wheels. Securing one side with Loctite then adjusting the other side by finger and thumb, on the bench it runs sweet but we shall see how it performs when it is on the layout. It is now fully sprung.

 

IMG_2816.PNG

 

Hi Michael,  I'm currently converting 43875 to P4 also with Ultrascale wheels. Have you carried out the job of widening the wheel clearance on the footplate? 

 

Robin

 

 

 

[Leander]

Could you post on here which Ultrascale wheels/axles you're using for the 4F in EM gauge?

[Michael Delamar]

The axles are 1/8", Brassmasters state to request this from Ultrascale and that is what they supplied, although I had to open out the brass horn guides, something I did many months back. In fact they say its "easi" chas but there is quite a bit of prep work to get to this stage. Opening out the Bachmann drive cog took a long time and my fingers were sore at the end. Ultrascale dont prodice a cog contrary to what Brassmasters say.

 

I haven't started any work on the body at the moment. That will be soon. I know the wheel splashers ar oversize on the model but I dont think Ill bother to correct them, seems a lot of work, expecially as I have more of these to do. My thinking its a solid body and a lot of faffing to add delicate bits to ping off. Im not sure how much of the detailing parts I will add to the body from the brassmasters etch yet.

 

I am on the market for a couple of more cheap Bachmann 4fs, I have the wheels and chassis but not got round to getting the locos yet!

[Michael Delamar]

The instructions are a great help and are free to view on the website.

 

http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/4f_easichas.htm

[Michael Delamar]

What feel odd at first is that when you lift the loco you can spin the wheels by hand. Then when it sits down under its weight and the springs compress the drive cog engages again.

 

Ive cut the long crankpin nuts off now with a piercing saw.

 

The body sits down well and no touching of the splashers, no need to thin them out inside. Thats only needed for P4 according to the instructions.

 

Im intrigued now as to how well it will run and haul.

[Michael Delamar]

Runs well on the rollers.

 

 

And it glides through pointwork on the layout, only with external wires at the moment as it doesn't have pick ups fitted. However I may on the advice of Chris Hewitt fix the rear driven axle as it does rock and bounce easily.

 

 

Tonight I was also passed a recent issue of Steam world with a great shot of the shed, good detail of the end of the messroom building.

[Michael Delamar]

Task at the moment is gluing on the plastic chairs to the sides after they've been cut in half. It'll take a while. Haven't got any keen young club members at the moment who I can give the job to.

 

[Michael Delamar]

The 4f, I've made the rear axle nearly solid by soldering wire across the cast axle bearing to the chassis. This has stopped the side to side sort of tilt wobble and bounce. I used wire thinking it would give a little bit of spring but its pretty much solid. I did try at first soldering the bearing to the chassis with a blob of solder but it made the chassis loud like a triang jinty which Is why I went for this method. It glides through the pointwork quietly so I think I will do this on future 4fs.

[Michael Delamar]

A new member did bring in his old notes from when he visited the shed in 1963.

 

Edited March 22, 2017 by Michael Delamar

[Michael Delamar]

Taking a while, but each bits a bit more....

 

I've also decided to do away with the copperclad tie bars and go for something more realistic with cosmetic tie bars and the point controlled underneath the board by a bent .8mm wire in a brass tube soldered to each rail. I just havent worked out how exactly ill attach these to the servos just yet.

[Michael Delamar]

Just a little update, much the same as previous...

 

More chairs added, this 3 way at the front of the layout in the goods yard is going to be false, the closest 2 lines disappear off the baseboard, I may add the extra 2 sidings in the future but its unlikely as it would mean an extension board. But it would have bugged me moreso if I had left the point off the layout.

 

 

I have built up over the tunnel.

 

 

 

Map of the various roads and buildings above the tunnel which will be built. Just the frontage of the baths will be built.

 

And I have started on a second 4f.

 

 

Even though I am unsure at the moment of what actual locos I am modelling I do want one to be 43988. Im looking for advice on what things to change in order to model this loco? The chimney i believe needs to be changed?

 

[Michael Edge]

I'm not sure what you are starting with but 43988 is RH drive with splasher beading and a Stanier era chimney. Tender looks to be a flush riveted bulkhead one, I can't see any vents in either position though.

[Roger Sunderland]

Hello Michael

 

I've followed this thread with huge interest from the start, beautiful modelling. I've been trying to come up with a prototype location for a Merseyside based layout for some time now as its what I remember from my yoof! My first choice would have been Bootle Jcn but, along with other areas I can't get any models of the 502s anytime soon so have abandoned the idea

 

Walton was another possibility as it lends itself so well to a model. I'm coming to the idea of using a condensed version of the Walton track plan, basing it on Merseyside but keeping it fictitious and vaguely familiar.

 

I wonder if you can help here. In putting together a plan I'm struggling with the scenic break from the turntable end of the layout into a fiddle yard. I note from the plans you've put on here that either side of the main lines are two tracks. One from the coal wagon sidings, which may be a head shunt and the other which appears as the "arrival road" for the shed. A number of questions.

 

1. How did locos coming from Huskisson access the shed? Did they come back over the mainline crossover, then access the arrival road?

 

2. How have you done this on the model.ie is the arrival road truncated and doesn't enter the fiddle yard?

 

3. Does the head shunt from the coal sidings link with the fiddle yard or is this truncated too?

 

4. How are you planning to model the break between layout and fiddle yard at this end. I note the subway but there do not appear to be any bridges. How will the 4 tracks pass off scene?

 

Sorry to pester you with this Michael, hope you can help.

[Michael Delamar]

I'm not sure what you are starting with but 43988 is RH drive with splasher beading and a Stanier era chimney. Tender looks to be a flush riveted bulkhead one, I can't see any vents in either position though.

I got this chimney which I think may be a stanier one for a 4f but I am unsure.

 

Better view of the tender.

 

[Michael Delamar]

Hello Michael

I've followed this thread with huge interest from the start, beautiful modelling. I've been trying to come up with a prototype location for a Merseyside based layout for some time now as its what I remember from my yoof! My first choice would have been Bootle Jcn but, along with other areas I can't get any models of the 502s anytime soon so have abandoned the idea

Walton was another possibility as it lends itself so well to a model. I'm coming to the idea of using a condensed version of the Walton track plan, basing it on Merseyside but keeping it fictitious and vaguely familiar.

I wonder if you can help here. In putting together a plan I'm struggling with the scenic break from the turntable end of the layout into a fiddle yard. I note from the plans you've put on here that either side of the main lines are two tracks. One from the coal wagon sidings, which may be a head shunt and the other which appears as the "arrival road" for the shed. A number of questions.

1. How did locos coming from Huskisson access the shed? Did they come back over the mainline crossover, then access the arrival road?

2. How have you done this on the model.ie is the arrival road truncated and doesn't enter the fiddle yard?

3. Does the head shunt from the coal sidings link with the fiddle yard or is this truncated too?

4. How are you planning to model the break between layout and fiddle yard at this end. I note the subway but there do not appear to be any bridges. How will the 4 tracks pass off scene?

Sorry to pester you with this Michael, hope you can help.

Hi Roger.

 

There is a kit for the class 502 from E traction kits.I have one.

 

 

Both the coal yard and shed lines run into the fiddle yard lines.

 

 

 

 

Unfortuately I will have to do something Ive never liked on layouts and have the curved backscene go over all these lines with a letterbox shape cut out of it. There is no scenic break this end.

 

[Dave Holt]

I got this chimney which I think may be a stanier one for a 4f but I am unsure.

IMG_6494.JPG

 

Better view of the tender.

 

IMG_2909.JPG

I'm not an expert on these locos, but your brass chimney looks more like a 3F to me - too tall for a Stanier 4F. You could try the Gibson castings for the Stanier 2-6-4 tank, which looks the right sort of shape.

From the tender view, the air vents must be in the coal space, hidden by the coal in this case.

Dave.

[Wigan Wallgate OO Gauge]

Stunning! Just out of interest, do you have any information on shed 27D (Wigan Central)?

[Michael Delamar]

Thank you, but im afraid I havent got any info on 27D.

 

And just to answer Roger's other question which I missed earlier, locos coming from Huskisson will zig zag across via the crossover.

[APOLLO]

Stunning! Just out of interest, do you have any information on shed 27D (Wigan Central)?

 

There is an excellent book on this shed

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/THE-WIGAN-SHEDS-Volume-2-Wigan-L-Y-Motive-Power-Depot-ISBN-9780954312879-/301814313380

 

Volume 1 covers Wigan Springs Branch shed.

 

Brit15

[Michael Edge]

I got this chimney which I think may be a stanier one for a 4f but I am unsure.

IMG_6494.JPG

 

Better view of the tender.

 

IMG_2909.JPG

 

Chimney is right shape but too tall for a 4F. I can't see any vents on that tender but I can't see a water dome either - maybe some of these tenders weren't fitted with scoops?

[Michael Delamar]

If anyone knows what the height of the stanier 4f chimey is in 4mm please ill have a go at chopping and re using this one.

 

[TheSignalEngineer]

IIRC there were two different heights used and they got mixed throughout the class, which was why they got yellow striped in 1964. I don't know the chimney height but the tall version stood 13'3" above rail and the short version was about 4 1/2" lower.

[Roger Sunderland]

Hi Roger.

There is a kit for the class 502 from E traction kits.I have one.

IMG_3067.JPG

Both the coal yard and shed lines run into the fiddle yard lines.

Unfortuately I will have to do something Ive never liked on layouts and have the curved backscene go over all these lines with a letterbox shape cut out of it. There is no scenic break this end.

IMG_8419.JPG

Thanks very much for this Michael, the photo explains a lot.

 

The 502 is beautiful. I grew up with these, we lived next to Ainsdale station. Sadly, I've tried both e-traction and the 502 society, who commissioned it but no luck.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Roger Sunderland

[Michael Edge]

The height of the original MR chimney is given as 1ft 6 13/16in. The Stanier pattern chimney on my 4F measures 6.7mm but may not be quite correct.

[barrowroad]

If anyone knows what the height of the stanier 4f chimey is in 4mm please ill have a go at chopping and re using this one.

 

IMG_6501.JPG

Hi Michael, 

This might help:-

In the Wild Swan 4F book it says "Midland Chimneys were 1ft 11 7/16in. Locomotives under LMS auspices up to 1928 had chimneys 1ft 6 3/16in high. The 4Fs built after Stanier's arrival had his style of chimneys that were made in two sizes equal to the earlier pre-grouping and post grouping ones" It also contains a table which lists 3988 as having a Tall chimney, short dome in September 1939.

 

Robin