Bluebell Railway news

[31A]

Chris PINE. A woman who wears a CAPE. Will the film ever run?

 

Geoff Endacott

 

They probably have costumes by CALVIN Klein.

[brianusa]

The BBR was mentioned in one of the mags in a letter from a reader concerning the painting of pre grouping locos. The Bluebell is well known for repainting Victorian and Edwardian engines in original liveries while other lines seem to prefer BR black. At least they could be painted in the grouping colours so why the preponderance for BR black? Presumably the reasoning is that most enthusiasts today grew up and were spotters in that era. However, there's a rich historical value in the ability to see these old locos in their original colour schemes which would add a pleasant contrast to the rather drab BR black.

 

Brian.

[Dava]

The Bluebell has painted locos in a range of liveries they carried, the E4 being a star example, others have also carried BR black. And there is a blue P class 'Bluebell'

 

Dava

[Torn-on-the-platform]

I understand that convincing the Bluebell's high ups to paint the E4 BR Black was something of a battle, and only allowed for the end of the boiler certificate. The Q class is currently in BR livery by request as there are already 2 locos and another only just retired in a Maunsell livery. I have always enjoyed the colourful variation at the Bluebell, though I do like the uniformity elsewhere. For example the Swanage has a lot of BR Brunswick and Black alongside BR(SR) coaches, and the K&WVR (aside from its vintage carriages) sticks to Black locos and Maroon coaches, and it gives off a smart image to the public.

 

Whilst the encroachment of carmine and cream has been a welcome change at the Bluebell (my own opinion, I'm well aware that not all members agree), I am starting to miss the full trains of malachite!

 

A slight aside, but still relevant, on a visit to the line a couple of years ago, some younger lads were asking their dad where Stepney was. None of them could find it until I pointed out that they were standing next to it. It was of course painted black, and despite the huge STEPNEY lettering on the tanks, the lack of its iconic livery had meant it totally passed them by.

[Guest]

The BBR was mentioned in one of the mags in a letter from a reader concerning the painting of pre grouping locos. The Bluebell is well known for repainting Victorian and Edwardian engines in original liveries while other lines seem to prefer BR black. At least they could be painted in the grouping colours so why the preponderance for BR black? Presumably the reasoning is that most enthusiasts today grew up and were spotters in that era. However, there's a rich historical value in the ability to see these old locos in their original colour schemes which would add a pleasant contrast to the rather drab BR black.

 

Brian.

I believe, it's to do with the availability of appropriate stock to run with locos. Most preserved lines rely heavily on BR MK1 coaches, whereas the Bluebell has a much wider variety in it's preserved rolling stock.

 

By example, Swanage Railway as previously mentioned currently rely on a mix of Mk1's and Bulleid stock for their passenger services, with an overwhelming dominance in the former. Therefore, they tend to paint the locos to match (albeit, not always) to create an air of authenticity.

 

I'm sure if more appropriate stock was preserved, we'd see more variation in the liveries applied to locos.

 

Regards,

Matt

[Ian J.]

I think it's probably true to say that there are also a disproportionate number of BR Standard locomotives preserved compared to the rest of the 'steam fleet', so in order to keep a familiar match up of stock and loco, keeping it all in BR liveries helps. The Bluebell are probably one of the few heritage railways that has quite a lot of both locos and stock originally from pre-nationalisation and pre-grouping eras.

[Paul.Uni]

Visiting locos for the Diesel Gala:

• 20901
• 20905
• 73107
• 73119
• 73136
• 73964
• 66770
• 47739 (courtesy of Colas Rail)

Plus the LU 4TC set. The Class 73/1 locos will be operating as brake translators between the air braked locos and vacuum braked coaches. Timetable: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0NGRsycfNJkZjhaYlR4eHBIYTQ/view

 

All info from the Facebook Event Page.

[Dava]

That is a lot of diesels for a line which once had a steam-only policy...not one of them a 33 either, strangely.

 

Dava

[Bon Accord]

That is a lot of diesels for a line which once had a steam-only policy...not one of them a 33 either, strangely.

 

Dava

 

The no diesel policy was one of it's most endearing features. Alas it seemed like the Diesel fraternity seemed to go all out to want to break that policy just because they could rather than because it was specifically needed in the permanent sense.

[PenrithBeacon]

The no diesel policy was one of it's most endearing features. Alas it seemed like the Diesel fraternity seemed to go all out to want to break that policy just because they could rather than because it was specifically needed in the permanent sense.

Quite so. But the diesel fraternity can't put a diesel gala on by themselves they have to ask for outside help.

 

Regards

[surfsup]

The no diesel policy was one of it's most endearing features. Alas it seemed like the Diesel fraternity seemed to go all out to want to break that policy just because they could rather than because it was specifically needed in the permanent sense.

 

 

Quite so. But the diesel fraternity can't put a diesel gala on by themselves they have to ask for outside help.

 

Regards

I'm afraid to say, in some considerable that both posts are wrong.

 

The first diesels to be bought into the Bluebell were actually by the Bluebell Railway themselves - The Class 73 '73136' was bought in by the Railway in 2009 to work on the Spoil removal trains from the former Imberthorne cutting tip. It was them who ran the first 'Diesel Day' on the line with 136 working the 'Wealden Exclusive' with a Mk1 & 2 Bulleid coaches - The 73 lasted less than a year on the line. The next Diesel to arrive, on hire from Burton based Nemesis Rail was in the form of 33103. This was also initially hired in to complete the northern extension infrastructure works, then ended up working on the Southern Infrastructure works, before ending up on an extended stay due to the Bluebells Steam Traction Issues of 2014 whereby the number of serviceable steam locos could have been counted on one hand. This again was the lines choice, not that of the diesel 'fraternity' forcing ourselves on the line. The next Item of Diesel powered rolling stock to arrive on the line in Winter 2014 was in the from of Blue DMUs Class 101 E51505 & Class 108 E50599 - These were hired in by the Railway to provide a service between Horsted Keynes and East Grinstead while Freshfield Bank renewals were taking place. It is true that the Bluebell could have used a steam loco for this, however this proved impractical due to the shed & servicing facilities being down in a cut off Sheffield Park, and watering facilities then only being operable at Horsted Keynes. The 33 could have been used, but this was tied up with the track renewals. The doubled ended DMU providing a practice and comfortable service over the only openable section of the line over a fairly quiet winter period. So rather than closing altogether, the DMU at least allowed part of the line to operate and still bring the much needed money in. The final and more permeant diesel powered resident to join the line is in the form of Class 09 09018 - This is a purchase by a group of the lines steam department members and has so far proved itself to be more than useful, it's purchase being initially for shunting but it's 25MPH top speed has allowed it to both work rescue trains (for failed steam locos I might add!) and to cover for an unavailable loco. Disappointing to some who may have turned up for a steam loco, but as long as the train can still run and still provide a revenue earning service. The 73 has long since gone, The 33/1 has also long since gone, The DMU has long since returned back to the EVR. So only the 09 remains. It is the Bluebell themselves who have sowed the seeds for a Diesel Running Weekend - The 73 in 2009, The then available Class 09, 33/1 & DMU in 2014, and the rather successful Deltics of 2015. No one is forcing it upon them, and as the galas so far have taken place in what it seen as the quieter period within the Bluebells Calender, is a good way to bring in some additional money and visitors to the line. A proportion, who'd normally probably not really consider visiting the Bluebell.

 

As for this weekends Gala and the point about the Bluebell having to bring in extra help. Again, Incorrect I'm afraid. This weekends Gala is down to GBRF who are celebrating 15 years of Business this year, and they chose to host a gala on the Bluebell. This being the reason why there is no 33 - As GBRF Doesn't operate any Class 33s. The class 73s, are there to act as Translators - to provide Air/Vac braking. The Gala has been organized by GBRF and is raising money for both the Bluebell and their chosen charities - Something which GBRFs main railtours will also be continuing to do this year.

 

Nobody is forcing the Bluebell to go Diesel, Nobody is forcing the Bluebell to be like every other preserved line. Steam is still their main traction, and for a good while yet will continue to remain so. However, recent circumstances and the practicality offered by hiring in the 73/33/DMU have shown to the line that Diesel powered traction can provide some help and benefits, and will bring some additional visitors who would quite possibly be unlikely to visit the line. The close proximity to the other 2 local lines also help - The Lavender Line and the Spa Valley are also fairly local and have no issues running either steam or diesel traction on their lines, both of which are equally as scenic as the Bluebell. One final point i'll make is that so far, each Diesel event has been seen as a success, and long may it continue to do so!

[surfsup]

It also has to be noted that the Bluebell is potentially facing further steam traction issues with both the C & P Classes both now confined to Pilot & Shunting duties only, the SECR 'H' also out of traffic for now and a number of locos (the C&P included) facing issues with low tyres. So, in a similar repeat of the 2014 situation, the choice has to be made where you either carry on and hope that you'll have enough serviceable steam locos on the line, Find and hire another steam loco at fairly short notice, or look to hire in a Diesel to provide a backup loco for service. Or cancel your services.

[Bon Accord]

At the time of the first diesel charter, I seem to recall a group of steam enthusiasts offered to cover the costs/revenue from it so that it wouldn't run, but which was run anyway which to many seemed like a point was being made.

I'm sorry, but since the railway's stance has changed the Bluebell is no longer the unique line it once was.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Bon Accord

[Bomag]

At the time of the first diesel charter, I seem to recall a group of steam enthusiasts offered to cover the costs/revenue from it so that it wouldn't run, but which was run anyway which to many seemed like a point was being made.

I'm sorry, but since the railway's stance has changed the Bluebell is no longer the unique line it once was.

 

I think the point being made is people who deliberately want to stop other enthusiasts enjoying their hobby, solely on the basis that they don't like 'the right type locos' are the ones who should be seen as being unreasonable.

 

I go to reasonable lengths to avoid being hauled by GW locos, but I don't expect my local lines to ban them because I want maintain their 'purity'. If the group of 'steam enthusiasts' were real 'enthusiasts' then they perhaps would have donated the money to restore one of the many kettles needing works attention on the Bluebell irrespective of whether the charter ran.

[papagolfjuliet]

At the time of the first diesel charter, I seem to recall a group of steam enthusiasts offered to cover the costs/revenue from it so that it wouldn't run, but which was run anyway which to many seemed like a point was being made.

I'm sorry, but since the railway's stance has changed the Bluebell is no longer the unique line it once was.

 

The line's home based IC fleet consists of two diesel shunters, along with a petrol shunter which has been there since the Sixties. The 09 and the Sentinel have saved a great deal of money at a time when the Bluebell has faced a variety of operational challenges, and outside of very lucrative diesel days in the low season all scheduled passenger services continue to be steam hauled. From the point of view of a regular visitor the line's character has not changed in terms of the kind of motive power on offer. Yes, it's arguable that the shunting turns worked by the two resident small diesels could be worked by, say, the B4 or the NLR tank and yes, it's true that since being demoted to light duties 'Nettle' has not actually turned a wheel under its own power, but at a time of motive power shortage it is vital that the MPD concentrates on steam engines which are capable of earning revenue in peak times. I'd go further and say that overhauling 'Baxter' and carrying out the intermediate overhaul of 'Stepney' even though it so worn out that it was no longer in a fit state to work passenger trains was probably not the most sensible use of resources in the run up to the opening of the extension, and that the fact that Bluebell overhauled them anyhow demonstrates an ongoing commitment to maintaining what on other big lines would be considered unremunerative small locos.

[Geoff Endacott]

I think it was a poor show when the Bluebell cleared the line to Kingscote using diesel-powered diggers. What's wrong with picks and shovels?

 

I didn't see any horses and carts removing the spoil either. It's simply not good enough.

 

Geoff Endacott

[phil-b259]

The no diesel policy was one of it's most endearing features. Alas it seemed like the Diesel fraternity seemed to go all out to want to break that policy just because they could rather than because it was specifically needed in the permanent sense.

 

Firstly there never has been, and never will be an official 'no diesel' policy on the Bluebell Railway - requests to bring in any particular piece of motive power can be made to the board and they will consider things like who will look after it (i.e. we don't want it just dumped in the sidings), who will maintain it and how useful it would be for the wider railway before making a decision. What does however exist is a preference to work all ordinary timetabled passenger trains by steam so as to provide a 'unique selling point' and help mark the Bluebell out as 'different from the rest'. Now obviously with the latter preference in place, it does somewhat limit the potential use of diesel traction - which is presumably one of the reasons we have never had a home based fleet of mainline diesels (the ones the Bluebell have used were hired for specific purposes and left once those purposes had been completed (the jobs the 09 and sentinel were purchased to fulfil still exist - hence why they are still on the railway).

 

As I have said before the fact that the Bluebell has decided to hold a single, well publicised diesel gala (at a relatively slack time of the year) using almost exclusively hired in / donated / whatever you want to call it diesel traction does nothing to change the railway or the society at large. In crude terms it is simply  a revenue generating exercise so as to bring in funds to help restore further steam locos and period rolling stock - upon which day to day services depend.

Edited April 15, 2016 by phil-b259

[cromptonnut]

What I find confusing about the Bluebell is that "pure Southern" diesel/electric locos like the 33 or 73 are still considered 'less suitable' than foreign (ie other parts of the uk) steam locos that never ran anywhere near the Bluebell during its "in service" period.

 

Particularly when a 'new' steam loco like Tornado would be 'acceptable' yet 1950s built Class 33's (older than some original steam locos) are 'too new'.

 

I supported the first diesel gala and had a great day, but for some reason I just can't get excited about the line up this year.

[Dan Hamblin]

The current motive power situation is that 30541, 73082, 473, 323 and 3 are available for traffic, with 847 and 263 undergoing P&V and annuals in the works. The C and 178 are now limited to pilot duties, the former due to the wheel profile out of tolerance and there not being enough time left on the boiler ticket to allow re-profiling and the latter has a worn out cylinder block. 80151 and 928 are the large locos under overhaul, with 27 also being worked on. Beachy Head and 84030 conversion are more long term projects being worked on, with the former the more advanced of the two.

 

Regards,

 

Dan

[deltic17]

Well I went along to this year's Diesel Gala on Friday riding up and down the line and there were a lot of people there - it was a shame it was such a wet day. I went back briefly on Sunday morning for an hour or so to take some photos while the sun shone. Firstly credit to the Bluebell - it makes sense to appeal to Diesel fans on what would normally have been a quiet weekend. For me it was never going to be as good as the Deltics last year as I prefer more older heritage diesel traction but we can't be too fussy. I enjoyed it and if it made some money again for the Bluebell / GBRf charities that is absolutely fantastic and although I'm primarily a BR Blue diesel fan I still appreciate all British locos (whether steam or diesel). I hadn't been to the Bluebell since the Deltics event but will look forward hopefully to another Diesel Gala next year. I think a Western,Warship & a Hymek say would really bring in the crowds if that was possible. Anyway - well done to the Bluebell & GBRf - see you next year hopefully for more Diesel fun.

[Torn-on-the-platform]

I feel that Dan's post above shows that the motive power situation isn't too shabby. I'd like to add a little bit more information. Two large 4-6-0s and a reasonably powerful 0-6-0, supplemented by two medium sized tank engines should hopefully provide ample steam power over the main season. It is worth also pointing out that despite further delay to Sir Archibald Sinclair's overhaul, the latest forecast is for a late 2017 return. 80151 has only just been dismantled, though I gather it is in reasonable condition. The Maunsell society have not, as far as I'm aware, given a prediction for completion on Stowe, with 1618 to follow afterwards. The latest Bluebell news states that Beachy Head's 'chassis is very nearly complete' and work on the boiler is about to begin. Some of the Bluebell's decisions regarding locomotives have left me scratching my head, but they seem to be doing well enough at the moment!

 

The demotion of the C class is a shame, but bowed out in style with a trip to Kings Cross. The O1 is however high up the overhaul queue, though a shame that there won't be a period of overlap in their operation like there was before the latter locomotive was last retired.

 

A letter was published in the latest Bluebell News from a member who felt that at least 1, preferably 2 of the 3 4MT tanks should be available at any one time, being geographically relevant and economically useful. I must say I wholeheartedly agree, though won't make a fuss, as I don't volunteer.

 

With regards to diesels, I have never been particularly supportive of their presence but I still feel that the railway is doing itself no harm with the current level of 'exposure'. It opens the line up to a large group of enthusiasts that would not otherwise visit, and only affects quite well demarcated weekends, so only those who plan their trips poorly will turn up and be disappointed.

[Zomboid]

No one asked my opinion, but I think they've got the level of diesel about right. It was a endearingly quaint when steam was used for absolutely everything, but with the realities of the 21st century (and presumably an ageing volunteer base), the 09 is the right answer for shunting things around and being a rescue loco.

And there is a sizeable chunk of people who will drive hundreds of miles to ride behind certain types of diesel, so holding a diesel event with hired in traction is a great way to take some of their money which would otherwise not go to the railway.

[rogerzilla]

What's the practical constraint on keeping engines in steam?  Is it simply money or is it volunteer labour to do the work?   

 

Didcot seem to have similar issues; last time I was there (about a month ago) the only home steam engine available for service was the steam railmotor.  6023 is still having troubles with weights and springing (not sure if the new blastpipe has sorted out the poor steaming) and stalwart 3650 has been relegated to static display, the boiler ticket presumably having expired as it's seven years since it ran in preservation.  4144 (which has been back in service for just over a year) was also in need of repairs.  On the bright side, Pendennis Castle looks as if it's getting there; the boiler cladding was going on.

[Horsetan]

What's the practical constraint on keeping engines in steam?  Is it simply money or is it volunteer labour to do the work?   

 

Didcot seem to have similar issues; ....

 

To be fair, Didcot are trying to build three "new" engines as well!

[60526]

One of the class 20's failed at the diesel weekend, it was still there this week along with one of the class 73's, any idea what the plan is?