Class 33 Photos

[eastwestdivide]

A few more from a recent pile of poorly-documented scans. Basingstoke area, late 1987 I think.

 

A 33/0 with a 4-TC on a  Salisbury-bound service. Rare sighting of adidas sports bag on the platform, possibly containing flask and sandwiches.

 

33102 with (later edit) possibly ECS. I had thought a cross-country service from Poole bound for a loco change at Reading on its way north to Birmingham and beyond. Some air-con coaches - were the 33/1s able to supply them?

 

33119 between Basingstoke and Reading, pushing what is probably a Sunday Portsmouth/Reading service. Sorry about the bright green - I was having a nightmare trying to correct it, so this is uncorrected. Although it could be a crop of mushy peas ready to harvest.

 

Edited February 19, 2022 by eastwestdivide
Maybe not a cross-country service.Thanks DY444

[Clive martin]

Some superb photographs,all class 33 sub classes are able to supply eth for air con coaching stock,the southern region was well ahead of the othor regions in the 1960s introducing electric heat coaching stock.

[73c]

Any better?

 

 

[eastwestdivide]

12 hours ago, Clive martin said:

Some superb photographs,all class 33 sub classes are able to supply eth for air con coaching stock,the southern region was well ahead of the othor regions in the 1960s introducing electric heat coaching stock.

I thought there was something to do with a lower voltage on them and the 73s?

[DY444]

16 hours ago, eastwestdivide said:

33102 with I presume a cross-country service from Poole bound for a loco change at Reading on its way north to Birmingham and beyond. Some air-con coaches - were the 33/1s able to supply them?

 

 

13 hours ago, Clive martin said:

Some superb photographs,all class 33 sub classes are able to supply eth for air con coaching stock,the southern region was well ahead of the othor regions in the 1960s introducing electric heat coaching stock.

 

Not true.  Officially at least, 33s were not permitted to supply eth to any air conditioned stock except the Mk2f Gatex trailers when those appeared.  Excluding those, 33s were only permitted to supply Mk1, Mk2, Mk2a, Mk2b and Mk2c stock.  

 

The problem with air con stock is the eth supply voltage on a 33 can, under certain conditions, drop quite substantially causing the MAs on the stock to trip out.  When the conditions change and the eth supply voltage goes back up, the MAs reset and the current surge of several doing this at once was capable of overloading the eth generator.  That is why there was a ban.  In practice you might get away with the surge problem if there were only a couple of air con vehicles in a train but you'd still have the MAs tripping in and out all the time.

 

Re the picture.  It may well be a cross country service but the headcode of 02 and the train being on the up fast from Worting Jn rather than the up slow are hints it might not be.

Edited February 19, 2022 by DY444

[Nearholmer]

Does not the ETH generator ‘unload’ when pulling away from rest, deliberately so to release full power for traction?

[eastwestdivide]

15 minutes ago, DY444 said:

Re the picture.  It may well be a cross country service but the headcode of 02 and the train being on the up fast from Worting Jn rather than the up slow are hints it might not be.

Good point.  SEMG has 02 as “all trains to and via Clapham Junction Main Loop”. I’ll amend the caption

[DY444]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

Does not the ETH generator ‘unload’ when pulling away from rest, deliberately so to release full power for traction?

 

Originally they did but when the TCs came along that was changed on the whole class as cutting the eth when starting caused the TC MG sets to stop and the coach lights to go out.

 

With eth on the engine idle speed is increased to keep the eth voltage up.  When the power controller is moved from off the engine idle briefly drops to normal before the engine speed increases again to support the traction power demand.  That gives the characteristic "engine fading away and picking up again" sound when starting from rest with eth on.  Under the revised eth arrangement the supply is maintained when this happens but the consequence of the brief reduction in engine speed from fast idle to normal idle was a substantial drop in eth voltage.  The TCs and other non air con stock could live with this but air con stock MA sets didn't like it.

[Clive martin]

Sorry for my mis information regarding class 33 and eth supply for air con coaching stock,i guess when the class 33 was  introduced air con coaching stock had not been introduced so the southern region only needed an eth supply for heating!

[nomisd]

I have just found these whilst sorting out and thought that this is probably as good a place as any for an airing. There was a time when my daily commute was from Haringey Green Lanes to Gospel Oak and onwards to points west on the North London Line. These were taken the week (I think late August 1999 but I am sure someone will tell me the exact date) when 33013 and a 4TC were spot hired to cover stock shortages (I think they were changing from the last of first generation DMUs to Sprinters at the time?). They are arriving at  Green Lanes on my morning commute and at Gospel Oak on my evening journey home. I went all the way to Barking in the evening and remember it being utterly rammed. Somebody had seen fit to put a TTI on the train, I think the only time I saw such a thing on that commute!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Halvarras]

Last November I posted what I had thought to be the only 3 photos I took of Class 33s on the Reading - Redhill line.......not so, I've just found another one I overlooked! Here's 33047 about to pass through Blackwater station and under the A30 with a parcels train (or is it mixed parcels and goods?) from the Reading direction on 5th November 1975:

 

[SED Freightman]

On 01/05/2022 at 20:40, Halvarras said:

Last November I posted what I had thought to be the only 3 photos I took of Class 33s on the Reading - Redhill line.......not so, I've just found another one I overlooked! Here's 33047 about to pass through Blackwater station and under the A30 with a parcels train (or is it mixed parcels and goods?) from the Reading direction on 5th November 1975:

Looking at the stock I would suggest this is definitely a mail / parcels service, unfortunately I do not have the relevant WTT for this date.

[C126]

Is that an L.M.S. full brake, followed by some VVVs, and then a S.R. PMV in the front of the consist?

[Halvarras]

Apologies for my pic of 33047 being a bit dark, it looked better on my laptop screen. Often happens - note to self, lighten 'em up before posting!

[Nearholmer]

What is a VVV?

 

I was wondering what those vans were.

[C126]

1 minute ago, Nearholmer said:

What is a VVV?

 

I was wondering what those vans were.

 

Sorry, "Vanfit" in old money.  Although I think there were variations in the T.O.P.S. codes for this wagon, and it is difficult to tell in the pic.  Apologies for the confusion.

[Nearholmer]

I don’t recall seeing vanfits being used in parcels or postal trains around this time (which doesn’t mean they weren’t, just that I don’t remember). I suppose given the date that it might be early in the Christmas Rush, which was utterly manic at Redhill, causing anything and everything to be used.

[Halvarras]

3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

What is a VVV?

 

Looking at the 'construction' of other wagon codes I assume that the first V = Van and the last V = Vacuum (braked), so the one in the middle must = Ventilated. So Van Ventilated Vacuum. I know what assumption can be the mother of, but I can't go far wrong here.......can I?! 🤔

[balders]

1 hour ago, Halvarras said:

 

Looking at the 'construction' of other wagon codes I assume that the first V = Van and the last V = Vacuum (braked), so the one in the middle must = Ventilated. So Van Ventilated Vacuum. I know what assumption can be the mother of, but I can't go far wrong here.......can I?! 🤔

Came as VEV, VWV and VMV variants as well. Lots of photos on Paul Bartlett's fantastic site of various variants......though I've never been sure of what exactly each moniker referred to other than vac braked 12t van! 

 

Regards

 

Guy

[C126]

12 hours ago, balders said:

Came as VEV, VWV and VMV variants as well. Lots of photos on Paul Bartlett's fantastic site of various variants......though I've never been sure of what exactly each moniker referred to other than vac braked 12t van! 

 

Regards

 

Guy

 

If I remember correctly, "VWV" referred to the wheel bearings, and "VMV" indicated allocated to military trains.  Do get a copy of MANN, Trevor / British Railways unfitted and vacuum-braked wagons in colour.  Hersham : Ian Allan Publishing, 2013, which contains a good list.  Others are available on the www as well.

[eastwestdivide]

Didn't the VE, VM and VW codes all refer to "Vanwides" , the ones with bigger doors?

Useful reference at https://www.ltsv.com/w_ref_codes_tops_v.php for most or all TOPS van codes

[C126]

16 minutes ago, eastwestdivide said:

Didn't the VE, VM and VW codes all refer to "Vanwides" , the ones with bigger doors?

Useful reference at https://www.ltsv.com/w_ref_codes_tops_v.php for most or all TOPS van codes

 

Waiting for my Bachmann "VMV", I should have known this... 🙂  Sorry.

[08221]

33002 stands at Buckfastleigh on the South Devon railway on 6 May 2022.

 

[john new]

Two help with date images posted earlier in the UK Prototype Questions thread. Of interest to readers of this thread too. 

 

[Rugd1022]

Not sure if we've had this one before but I've just found it lurking in my hard drive : D6500 at Clapham Junction in 1966 / 67, photographer unknown.... note the rail blue Hawksworth BG in the consist....