Traeth Mawr -Building Mr Price's house , (mostly)

[Edwardian]

29 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

Reduce to 58%!

 

Or is it 57%, I can never remember!

[corneliuslundie]

57.14285714285714%

J

[Compound2632]

16 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

57.14285714285714%

 

One procedure, if the drawing can be scanned accurately and you have a picture editing programme, is to crop the image so that in one dimension it is an integer multiple of 7 mm, or 7 pixels, or whatever. Then it can me reduced in size by specifying that that dimension should be scaled to the same integer multiple of 4 mm, or 4 pixels or whatever. For example, if it is cropped to 7,000 pixels wide, it can then be scaled to 4,000 pixels wide.

 

Of course check marked dimensions to ensure that it's all gone to plan.

[Simond]

7 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

57.14285714285714%

J

Approximately.

[MikeOxon]

10 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

57.14285714285714%

J

Why stop there - it's an infinitely recurring decimal, so keep typing ...

[ChrisN]

30 minutes ago, MikeOxon said:

Why stop there - it's an infinitely recurring decimal, so keep typing ...

 

It is right to within an order of magnitude.  😄

 

[ChrisN]

I have been informed by Gary, @BlueLightning that thr horsebox is better with primer and that he uses Halfords plastic primer, which I have.  What I do not have is warm enough weather to spray outside, so the horsebox and the PO wagon are now sitting in the window looking for sunshine.

[Northroader]

There was some form of sliding shutter in the partition behind the grooms compartment, so the groom could keep an eye on the horses, and maybe top up their water and fodder. I gather it was bad practice for the horse to be able to see out and admire the passing countryside, as the motion would discompooperate them. (Have a look at modern road boxes) With the army cavalry movements, the occifers horses went in horse boxes, other ranks in cattle trucks, but these were sheeted over for the same reason, so I feel it would be a waste to put your horses inside the box, as you can’t see them.

[ChrisN]

1 hour ago, Northroader said:

There was some form of sliding shutter in the partition behind the grooms compartment, so the groom could keep an eye on the horses, and maybe top up their water and fodder. I gather it was bad practice for the horse to be able to see out and admire the passing countryside, as the motion would discompooperate them. (Have a look at modern road boxes) With the army cavalry movements, the occifers horses went in horse boxes, other ranks in cattle trucks, but these were sheeted over for the same reason, so I feel it would be a waste to put your horses inside the box, as you can’t see them.

 

Thank you.  Yes, it does seem obvious now that they were not allowed to look out.  I now have two Shires with no harness, and probably no use for them maybe with wagons, but I could add a harness for leading them, a bit like Shaun, @Sasquatch has done here.  Come to think of it I probably have a couple of those which were bought when they were new.  (I mean not second hand, and probably for 2/6.  (Two shillings and six pence, old pence.)

[MikeOxon]

10 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

 

Thank you.  Yes, it does seem obvious now that they were not allowed to look out.  I now have two Shires with no harness, and probably no use for them maybe with wagons, but I could add a harness for leading them, a bit like Shaun, @Sasquatch has done here.  Come to think of it I probably have a couple of those which were bought when they were new.  (I mean not second hand, and probably for 2/6.  (Two shillings and six pence, old pence.)

Another thought is to alter a model to have open doors, then place it at a loading dock.  I have that set up at North Leigh, where there is a rake of modified Airfix cattle wagons, of which one is loading at the cattle dock.

[ChrisN]

1 hour ago, MikeOxon said:

Another thought is to alter a model to have open doors, then place it at a loading dock.  I have that set up at North Leigh, where there is a rake of modified Airfix cattle wagons, of which one is loading at the cattle dock.

 

Mike,

Unfortunately, my loading dock is off stage.

[ChrisN]

I have still not downloaded any pictures but I have had a delivery of 5mm Foam Board.  Well, not actually a delivery, I had to go to the shop and buy it.  So, do not say it too loudly, I have started to mark out Mr Price's House.  So firstly, here is a picture of the outside as it was a few years ago.  

 

 

This is the back, (or front).

 

 

This is the front, (or back).

 

I am not sure which way round the Station Master at Barmouth would have thought is house to be, as the 'back' faced the railway.

 

You can see clearly at the side where there is a small window, which is probably the toilet and a stench pipe next to it.  I assumed that the house was not built with this and if you look at this image from my favourite web site dated 1873 you will see it is not there.  However, in this image dated 1897, it is most definitely there.  The dates on this web site are sometimes not very accurate but the next one to show any alteration is this one, which although on the other side shows the stench pipe.

 

Now my received wisdom, mainly from this forum is that upstairs toilets were a thing of the 20th century, not the late 19th, or even the first two decades of the 20th, so this is very interesting.  The next image is 1938, still quite early for inside toilets.

 

So, did the cash strapped Cambrian feel it had a duty of care to its employees to install inside flush toilets earlier than most, and how early?  It could be argued that the outside toilets were quite close to the line so may have given passengers arriving at Barmouth more than a bracing sea smell so that is why they did it.  The question for me is did this modernisation reach Traeth Mawr by 1895?  The house backs onto the platform so maybe they would want to get rid of the smell?

 

Answers on a postcard please.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[Donw]

 Sorry I don't have any postcards

However around 1860 were two inventions the earth closet and the septic tank which avoided the smell of cesspits. However both still required a decent size of garden to dispose of the waste. The septic tank more so as it required a drainage field  whereas the contents of an earth closet could usefully be buried in the vegetable plot. The house must be fairly close to  the sea and today there would be concerns of a septic tank or a cesspool leaking affecting the water.  Although in 1895 it might have been quite acceptable to have drainage than just ran out into the sea. An earth closet would usually be in a little hut down the garden or in a brick outhouse. 

My suggestion is that the railway had provided drainage running out to sea for its own use and the station masters house was connected to it.

 

Don

[ChrisN]

46 minutes ago, Donw said:

 Sorry I don't have any postcards

However around 1860 were two inventions the earth closet and the septic tank which avoided the smell of cesspits. However both still required a decent size of garden to dispose of the waste. The septic tank more so as it required a drainage field  whereas the contents of an earth closet could usefully be buried in the vegetable plot. The house must be fairly close to  the sea and today there would be concerns of a septic tank or a cesspool leaking affecting the water.  Although in 1895 it might have been quite acceptable to have drainage than just ran out into the sea. An earth closet would usually be in a little hut down the garden or in a brick outhouse. 

My suggestion is that the railway had provided drainage running out to sea for its own use and the station masters house was connected to it.

 

Don

 

Don,

Thank you.

 

I am not sure if it is clear from my photos that the back garden is very small and is very close to the railway line.  This picture shows how close.  My first photo was taken from today's car park, and the stone wall is the boundary of the railway.  Before about 1930 or so when they built the new sea defences the car park would have been the beach, or sea depending on the time of day, tide etc., so it would have been very easy to have a pipe running down into the sea.  Earth closets would have been very close to the house, as there is no space at all.  This all makes sense of an early change to indoor plumbing.

 

As for Traeth Mawr.  Well the Refreshment rooms and toilets have to drain somewhere, so could either be onto the beach, or main drains once the houses across the road was built, the same could go for Mr Price's house.

[Northroader]

My pals grandma lived just down the road from us in the village in an old house, with a little brick outhouse across the yard for a toilet, with quite a large garden behind. This drained into a sort of small pond round the back, rather like a black porridge. Every so often the council sent a tank wagon round, referred to as the “druggon” and they uses a scoop with a long handle to lower the level and cart it off.

i would think the late Victorian developers would build roads with sewer pipes for new build hotels and so on in Traeth Mawr, and the older houses and railway buildings would get connected where they went by.

[ChrisN]

44 minutes ago, Northroader said:

My pals grandma lived just down the road from us in the village in an old house, with a little brick outhouse across the yard for a toilet, with quite a large garden behind. This drained into a sort of small pond round the back, rather like a black porridge. Every so often the council sent a tank wagon round, referred to as the “druggon” and they uses a scoop with a long handle to lower the level and cart it off.

i would think the late Victorian developers would build roads with sewer pipes for new build hotels and so on in Traeth Mawr, and the older houses and railway buildings would get connected where they went by.

 

When the railway arrived in 1867 the Town Council had the market square redeveloped and houses then gradually got built along Station Road between the market square and the level crossing.  The first to be built was The Railway Inn, and gradually up towards the market.  Somewhere in that the Methodist Chapple and Manse were built and an impressive house for the doctor.  Other houses were then built towards the market.

 

Finally in the late 1880s, the girl's school was built and opened.

 

Now just found a newspaper article for 25th October 1889 about a proposed sewer outfall, into the sea of course, for Barmouth.  Apparently there is still a lot of sewage going into the sea along that coast, according to internet headlines I have just scanned.

 

Flush toilets it is then, but I do not recommend bathing, and is that why the herring and crabs' taste is so distinctive?

[ChrisN]

All you needed to know about Victorian Sanitary Acts.  Maybe not all.  

 

Sanitary Act 1866,

Under the Act, overcrowding in residences became illegal and local authorities were required to take responsibility for ensuring sewerage systems were in place.

 

This would mean that Traeth Mawr Council would have had to have a sewage system, perhaps even by 1867 when the station was built, even if the sewage pipe flowed directly into the sea, which it probably did.

 

Public Health act 1872.  (Note change of name, interesting in itself.)

The Public Health Act 1872 established sanitary authorities in both urban and rural areas. These were to provide public health services and appoint medical officers of health.

 

Public Health Act 1875 

Authorities were obliged to provide clean water, dispose of all sewage and refuse, and ensure that only safe food was sold. It gave them the power to ensure that homes were connected to the main sewerage system. The Act forbade the building of new homes without such connection.

 

If the 1866 Act said they had to have sewage pipes then what did they do with the sewage as they were not told to dispose of it until 1875?  I have seen a photo of East Ham, I think in the 1930s but maybe later with an open sewer in the street.  My dad lived in Hoxton and in 1917 contracted polio from a 'stream' at the bottom of the garden.  I have often wondered, but only when it was too late to ask if this was a stream or a sewer.

 

I understand that it was different in urban and rural areas.  In the 1920s my mum was being brought up in a village in North Hertfordshire, and the water supply was a stand pipe in the street.

 

So, the Railway Inn was on mains sewage from the start as so were the other houses in the road, and some had piped water from the start.  This means inside toilets, not privies at the back of the garden.  Where the toilet was at the start I do not know, although there are some buildings to the left of the house on the map.

 

 

I assume that toilets at the bottom of the garden/yard were either rural or were for houses built prior to 1866.  (Fascinating, this could be a rabbit hole, but I doubt it.)

 

 

This is Barmouth, and the station is in the bottom right hand corner and the sewage outflow is in the top left.  This means when I do my 'front scene' of the beach I do not have to include a sewage pipe.  🙂

[Mikkel]

An interesting discussion. Earlier we have discussed on here how the public health acts (I remember the 1875 one being highlighted) had a big impact on town planning, including not just sewage but also wider streets, planting of trees etc. But that would especially be in the big towns I suppose.

 

11 hours ago, ChrisN said:

This picture shows how close. 

 

What a lovely scene - right from the front and all the way to the horizon!

 

[ChrisN]

Finally a report on modelling.  I have added gutters to the station building roof.

 

 

I decided that I would use Ratio guttering as they were acceptable and not horrendously expensive.  I know @westerhamstation would have used the folded edges of Weetabix packets.  I looked at these and decided that they probably were not large enough.  Now having used them once, I shall proabley have to continue with them for consistency.  Shown is the gutter, and two strips of card, and a reinforcing piece of card.

 

 

I realised that the gutters need to be horizontal, but the roof has no horizontal portion to it, so the piece of card on the roof is for the gutter to lean on.  The soffit was then put in position.  It was all glued with PVA.

 

 

When it had dried  then the reinforcement card was glued into place.  I was concerned that the soffits were only stuck on where the supporting prongs from the gutters were, so was not convinced that they would hold very well without further support.

 

 

Gutters in place.

 

 

The other side.

 

 

The soffits, plus the flashing.  I have painted the soffits as well.

 

I finally managed the flashing.  The straight flashing was easy.  The flashing down the chimney is the third or fourth attempt.  I tried card and cutting it in situ down the brickwork, but it was too soft.  I then tried cutting the card in step fashion and then gluing it, with PVA, but it was still too soft.  I then took some more card, this time 2.5 to 3mm wide and cut steps in it.  I then shellacked it.  When I went to paint it, it had disappeared; no idea where it went.  I repeated the process and this time was able to paint it with Humbrol 64 light grey.  This time it was a bit hard, but I tried to wrap a small amount onto the roof.  You notice that the flashing on the front of the chimneys is a bit long, that is because I had to cover the gap between where the bricks stopped and the roof started.  I am not the only one with this problem.

 

So, the roof is FINISHED!  I would do this differently next time.  I would make the bricks on the chimneys go further down below the sides, I would have some method of making a flat surface at the bottom of the roof to attached the gutters, and yes, finials, they should go on near last as I have managed to break one, and the bit has disappeared, I think I saw it and put it in a bits pot.  

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

 

P.S. The building itself still needs painting.

 

[Mikkel]

 

13 hours ago, ChrisN said:

So, the roof is FINISHED!  

 

Hurrah, big milestone. The guttering looks good. It's interesting what a difference it makes to the appearence of a model roof when this is added. Somehow integrates the roof and walls, visually. And can help to hide problematic alignments, in my case 🙂

 

13 hours ago, ChrisN said:

The soffits

 

Thanks Chris, my new word of the day. I'll remember it by thinking of suffragettes. Sounds like their children.

 

[ChrisN]

3 hours ago, Mikkel said:

 

 

Hurrah, big milestone. The guttering looks good. It's interesting what a difference it makes to the appearence of a model roof when this is added. Somehow integrates the roof and walls, visually. And can help to hide problematic alignments, in my case 🙂

 

 

Thanks Chris, my new word of the day. I'll remember it by thinking of suffragettes. Sounds like their children.

 

 

Mikkel,

Actually, I got it wrong.  They are not soffits, they are facias.  The soffits run from the downward facias to the wall.  In my case they are imaginary.  (Soffit is a better word though.)

[Sasquatch]

On 09/02/2024 at 08:05, ChrisN said:

Finally a report on modelling.  I have added gutters to the station building roof.

 

 

I decided that I would use Ratio guttering as they were acceptable and not horrendously expensive.  I know @westerhamstation would have used the folded edges of Weetabix packets.  I looked at these and decided that they probably were not large enough.  Now having used them once, I shall proabley have to continue with them for consistency.  Shown is the gutter, and two strips of card, and a reinforcing piece of card.

 

 

I realised that the gutters need to be horizontal, but the roof has no horizontal portion to it, so the piece of card on the roof is for the gutter to lean on.  The soffit was then put in position.  It was all glued with PVA.

 

 

When it had dried  then the reinforcement card was glued into place.  I was concerned that the soffits were only stuck on where the supporting prongs from the gutters were, so was not convinced that they would hold very well without further support.

 

 

Gutters in place.

 

 

The other side.

 

 

The soffits, plus the flashing.  I have painted the soffits as well.

 

I finally managed the flashing.  The straight flashing was easy.  The flashing down the chimney is the third or fourth attempt.  I tried card and cutting it in situ down the brickwork, but it was too soft.  I then tried cutting the card in step fashion and then gluing it, with PVA, but it was still too soft.  I then took some more card, this time 2.5 to 3mm wide and cut steps in it.  I then shellacked it.  When I went to paint it, it had disappeared; no idea where it went.  I repeated the process and this time was able to paint it with Humbrol 64 light grey.  This time it was a bit hard, but I tried to wrap a small amount onto the roof.  You notice that the flashing on the front of the chimneys is a bit long, that is because I had to cover the gap between where the bricks stopped and the roof started.  I am not the only one with this problem.

 

So, the roof is FINISHED!  I would do this differently next time.  I would make the bricks on the chimneys go further down below the sides, I would have some method of making a flat surface at the bottom of the roof to attached the gutters, and yes, finials, they should go on near last as I have managed to break one, and the bit has disappeared, I think I saw it and put it in a bits pot.  

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

 

P.S. The building itself still needs painting.

 

The Ratio guttering is the best money can buy, of course I'd use it but would need to remortgage the house to provide 1/76 rainwater management for Grim-up-North, Mr's Sasquatch is getting fed up with Wheatabix! Mind you the cereal stuff comes with the soffits built in!

Having found some grey paper which made ideal flashing I was upset after inadvertently chucking it away while clearing out the modeling closet, so am on the lookout for a sheet of grey paper now.

Impressive model making as ever. Looking forward to seeing the painting completed, always my favorite part.

 

Regards Shaun 

 

   

Edited February 10 by Sasquatch
Ytpos

[ChrisN]

Well, surprise surprise, I have done some more modelling, but first, it is said that all Physicists should have a six inch ruler.  I did have one a number of years ago, but it disappeared, so when I went to the Model Railway show a few weeks ago when I saw one for sale, I bought it, along with a 2ft ruler as well.  (I mean, you know how frustrating it is when you are measuring something that is about 330mm.)  So, in case you have never seen one, here it is.

 

 

You will note that it is not shiny, which is very useful when working under a bright light which I often do,  Secondly, it has half mm divisions.  You will note that the foot ruler below also has half mm divisions, but in a way that is impossible to read.  I have found it very useful.

 

So what have I been doing?

 

 

Marked out on 5mm foam board, is Mr Price's house, and his neighbours.  It is based on the house in Barmouth.  The one at Barmouth had the Station Master's house on the right, and the one on the left was an exact repeat, it was not mirrored.  This meant that the blank wall of the Station Master's in the middle was repeated on the outside on the left.  This meant that the right hand house was 'posher' than the left, and so was let out to a Ganger.  My house however will have the houses mirrored, so that they will be the same.  My only problem now is, who to let it to?  I had thought the local Signalman, but in the status conscious world of 1895, is he senior enough to have the same house as Mr Price?  I had thought of a Traffic Inspector, but he would have to be back on the last train every day which would not be very late, although he could be out early in the morning.

 

You might notice that there are mistakes in the drawings, which is not unusual considering who drew it.  I also decided that I would have a foam board floor, so it is 5mm higher than just the sides of the house.  This actually fits with a house that would have been built with ground floor joists, and not a solid floor.

 

 

Windows cut out before separating the sides, I thought that would be easier.  Interesting cutting foam board, as you need to be careful not to cut the foam deeper that the plastic coating.

 

 

Random stone stuck to the cut out sides.  I have used SE Finecast sheets for this house, rather than the Slaters Random Stone I used for the station, as the stonework looks different between the station and this house.

 

 

Looking at this image of the house I am not sure the stones are really large enough, perhaps an '0' gauge version would have been better?  I had the same feeling on the station, that the stones should have been larger.

 

This house is not without its interesting points, by that I mean, things that should be straight forward, are not necessarily so.  Cut out windows and lintels next, this could take some time.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

 

 

[MikeOxon]

1 hour ago, ChrisN said:

things that should be straight forward

By now, Chris, you should have learned that things are NEVER straightforward 🙂

[Northroader]

What’s the glue/s you’re using, please?