Flooding of the railway on the Somerset Levels

[raymw]

A bit off topic, but produced a wry smile...

 

from Rural Payment Agency - CAP reform leaflet... Item 3 below

 

Applying for an exemption

There are 3 ways you can get an exemption to the crop diversification rules when you apply for BPS in 2015. These are if

1 more than 75% of your eligible land is:

1. permanent grassland;
2. used to produce grasses (or herbaceous forage);
3. used for the cultivation of crops under water; or
4. a combination of the above

and your remaining arable land is 30ha or less.

 

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

I don't know if anyone saw it this mornin g but there was a piece on BBC Breakfast about the way that NR egineers were coping.  It was I thought very balanced and positive with some shots from the cab of the slip repairs ongoing near Crewekerne.

 

Jamie

Some of the best coverage I've seen since all this began.

 

Incidentally, the slip next to the set of stop blocks isn't at Crewkerne, it's the Yeovil Junction one which happened a few days later and doesn't seem to have attracted much attention. AFAIK the Crewkerne slip has already been stabilised.

 

John

[Siberian Snooper]

Somehow I think that rice production isn't a viable alternative for the Levels

They might be able to go into fish farming, there's definitely no shortage of water. It may not be a long term option though once they finish pumping.

 

ss

[Fat Controller]

They might be able to go into fish farming, there's definitely no shortage of water. It may not be a long term option though once they finish pumping.

 

ss

The monks in the area, who first drained parts of the Levels, were fish-farming back in the 12th Century.

[Fat Controller]

The main issue I foresee for any produce from the affected parts of the Levels is contamination and pollution of fields. As raw sewage has been pumped out into the rivers, which were already flooding the surrounding land, I'd say a proper review on food-safety should be undertaken before produce of that land can be consumed safely. I'm sure the clever brains from H&S have come to the same conclusion, I hope?

I think that flood-borne contamination is something they'll be looking very carefully at; near Aberystwyth (in West Wales), heavy rain (even heavier than the usual) caused lead from disused mines to be leached out and deposited on pasture. Here it poisoned livestock:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-26241811

Similar mines existed in the Mendips from Roman until recent historical times.

Sewage contamination is probably more of a short-term problem, as it breaks down fairly quickly- the Chinese have used 'night-soil' on their farmland for millenia.

[jamie92208]

I think that flood-borne contamination is something they'll be looking very carefully at; near Aberystwyth (in West Wales), heavy rain (even heavier than the usual) caused lead from disused mines to be leached out and deposited on pasture. Here it poisoned livestock:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-26241811

Similar mines existed in the Mendips from Roman until recent historical times.

Sewage contamination is probably more of a short-term problem, as it breaks down fairly quickly- the Chinese have used 'night-soil' on their farmland for millenia.

So did we in the UK.  Somewhere there's a photo of the PO wagons owned by Dewsbury Corporation for sending their night soil away for resale to farmers.  Also i think a canal was built north fropm Plymouth to take their night soil to farms up the Tamar Valley.

 

Jamie

[Kenton]

 

Sewage contamination is probably more of a short-term problem

Very short term, aerated or running water clears out most bacteria very rapidly and so do fish. It is a problem in particular where it is confined such as inside houses and of course is very unpleasant. Farmers have been dealing with such material (especially from livestock) all their working lives.

 

The problem of water leaching out minerals/heavy metals would also be of little concern. The leaching from the mines in Somerset (and there were an awful lot of them in the area around Radstock - pay a visit to the excellent museum there for more information) is also an ongoing and continuous process that will be little affected by the extreme dilution effects of the flooding.

[Fat Controller]

So did we in the UK.  Somewhere there's a photo of the PO wagons owned by Dewsbury Corporation for sending their night soil away for resale to farmers.  Also i think a canal was built north fropm Plymouth to take their night soil to farms up the Tamar Valley.

 

Jamie

Imagine if that canal company came along today: they'd have their mission statement on the side of the vehicles-

"It may be s**t to you, but it's our bread and butter"

[Captain Kernow]

I've just come over the southern Somerset Levels in a Voyager via Athelney, and it's interesting how different areas have flooded differently. It really does seem to be a series of individual 'lakes', with only limited or no connections to each other. Some very flat areas by the lineside to the south of Burrowbridge were not actually flooded at all, yet just a short distance further along, the waters are very deep indeed...

[talisman56]

Sewage contamination is probably more of a short-term problem, as it breaks down fairly quickly

 

Indeed - hence the 'muck' that the farmers spread on the fields in 'muck-spreading' season...

[gismorail]

Hi Gismorail,

 

 What did you do about it? Did you take ownership of the problem? (Not trying to get at you,) but with the way that stuff is organised these days, too many subcontractors, etc., too much emphasis on cost and not value, etc., problems exist around the system edges/interfaces, communications, or lack of.

 

I would have thought, that among all the folk messing around at Dunball, someone would have realised that dropping the pump outfall onto the river bank was a bit daft, and that chopping up a container and then trying to move it when loaded was not going to work. But, if you are a subby, are you going to speak up? The existing four sluices at the drain go into a concrete sump, and a few yards away towards BW is a sort of concrete ramp, but basically longer pipes would be best. 

 

It appears that there is nobody around on  the EA site with any useful experience. It would help if the dead wood at the top of the tree was pruned. In reality, I think much of what is going on is 'a face saving exercise', and that's not working either.

 

Best wishes,

 

Ray

hi Ray,

I response to your question I'm afraid I was a subcontractor who was there to report back to network rail. The whole contract was to inspect and map out the track and drainage for the whole of the Great Western region of Network rail and was not to make recommendations but to highlight the affect of the drainage system on the track formation. The whole exercise was because with the change over from British Railways to Railtrack and then Network Rail the plans for the drainage systems had been lost and there was no record of them. Over the two years that the contract took to complete I surveyed / walked over 1800 miles of railway  from main lines to branch lines as well as depots etc. A very enjoyable job for someone interested in railways to be honest.

[ikcdab]

Is there any news on this reopening?

I live just west of Cogload Junction and the water here has dropped by about 4 feet over the last week (no water in our house - but loads in fields by railway).

So i guess that the line at Fordgate is clearing?

how to Network rail monitor this - do they look every day or how do they know when the flooding has cleared?

then i guess lots of owrk on trackbed and signalling etc.

[Captain Kernow]

Is there any news on this reopening?

I live just west of Cogload Junction and the water here has dropped by about 4 feet over the last week (no water in our house - but loads in fields by railway).

So i guess that the line at Fordgate is clearing?

how to Network rail monitor this - do they look every day or how do they know when the flooding has cleared?

then i guess lots of owrk on trackbed and signalling etc.

A number of weeks yet. We hve a team formed now, based in Taunton, who will be looking at the earthworks, PW and signalling aspects of the reinstatement. The site is being monitored constantly for water levels etc.

[brushman47544]

The site is being monitored constantly for water levels etc.

 

Now there's a useful job for the man left in the van (see Washout at Dawlish thread). "When you can see the sleepers as well as the rail head, give us a call".

 

Thanks for all the updates CK.

[ZiderHead]

Just had a thought - what happened with the Hinkley flasks that normally load at Bridgewater during these line closures? Taken by road to the Berkeley siding perhaps? Or was the line north of Bridgewater unaffected by the floods?

[Rivercider]

Just had a thought - what happened with the Hinkley flasks that normally load at Bridgewater during these line closures? Taken by road to the Berkeley siding perhaps? Or was the line north of Bridgewater unaffected by the floods?

The flooding is south of Bridgwater, there has been a limited FGW passenger service running as far as Bridgwater

so I presume the flask could still have run as normal

 

cheers

[Captain Kernow]

so I presume the flask could still have run as normal

That is correct.

[ZiderHead]

ok thanks gents

[Captain Kernow]

Encouraging news from a colleague who travelled back from Bristol via Athelney this afternoon, that the water levels appear to have gone down a fair bit more close to the railway.

[Rivercider]

On the local BBC Points West last evening there was a short interview with a Network Rail manager.

He said that they must wait until the water subsides back to the normal level in the ditches

so a survey of the embankment can be made to make sure it has not been undermined.

So not reopening for a couple of weeks earliest?

 

cheers

[The Stationmaster]

On the local BBC Points West last evening there was a short interview with a Network Rail manager.

He said that they must wait until the water subsides back to the normal level in the ditches

so a survey of the embankment can be made to make sure it has not been undermined.

So not reopening for a couple of weeks earliest?

 

cheers

I would suspect that a more accurate time period multiplier could well be months, not weeks.  Near us there is a short (less than1 mile) stretch of road that has only had a bit of surface flooding but has been, and still is, surrounded by flood water - the council are estimating that repairs of that could take many weeks but they don't even know yet how much damage it has suffered apart from several hundred yards of various degrees of subsidence.  You can't even assess the damage until the water has gone.

 

Edit to correct typos

[Coombe Barton]

Barrage in £100m Somerset flood plan - BBC

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-26447005

[Coombe Barton]

There's more on the effects of dredging on the levels on the BBC - Costly plan to reduce Somerset floods - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-26455513

 

Interesting is the map graphic pair about half way down the page which shows a computer simulation the effect that dredging the Parrett and Tone may have had on the effect of a previous flood situation

[TheSignalEngineer]

The flooding is south of Bridgwater, there has been a limited FGW passenger service running as far as Bridgwater

so I presume the flask could still have run as normal

 

cheers

Shown as having run yesterday on Realtimetrains website. In at 0645, out at 1128.

[ZiderHead]

Interesting is the map graphic pair about half way down the page which shows a computer simulation the effect that dredging the Parrett and Tone may have had on the effect of a previous flood situation

 

The interesting thing about that graphic to me is what it doesn't show - the increased flooding that the theoretical dredging would have created further North in and around Bridgewater which could have increased the cost of the flooding 100 times.

 

It seems counterintuitive but the severity of the recent floods on the levels is caused by improved drainage, not inadequate drainage.

 

The calls from locals for dredging is understandable - its proactive, spending money and seeing big machines doing stuff is a tangible thing and will make people feel like something is being done. It is however rather simplistic and betrays a real misunderstanding of the whole system.

 

ZH (Zumerzet-born and formerly resident of the island of Westonzoyland )