RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted February 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 14, 2014 The simple answer with the levels is that it is a landscape wholly dependent on managed drainage and the EA has not done that since it took over. there would undoubtedly still be bad flooding there but it would not be as bad if the dredging and management of the drainage system had been carried out as i should have been - at less cost than the EA's advertising budget. As far as the railway beyond Bridgwater is concerned the proper answer is, again, if the drainage of the Levels had been managed it probably wouldn't have been so badly threatened and the costs of dealing with it - once the water drops - should in my view come out of the EA's budget and not from NR. A very pertinent observation there Mike. The practice of not clearing culverts and leats on a regular basis all over the country has proved to be false economy. There have been many instances of flooding due to surface water run off because the ditches and culverts that used to be regularly maintained being left to silt up. Polperro a few years ago comes to mind. Indeed I had personal experience of this when the leat at the top of my road became blocked and it over topped to six feet and nearly flooded my house. By making a fuss the council have done something about it and we've had heavier long periods of rain since (like today) without problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted February 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 14, 2014 Paul Daniels is hardly in a situation of his own making and he talked a lot of sense although I don't agree with all of it. When he built his present house he originally applied for Planning Permission to build it on top of stilts but the local council rejected that so instead - and having been flooded out previously - he planned and had installed a very sophisticated system of barriers around the house plus considerable pumping capacity and thus far it has worked, the problem (as he said on tv last night) is getting to and from the house. It's a similar matter with the now well known builder on the levels who has kept the waters from entering his house (until now) http://metro.co.uk/2014/02/10/somerset-floods-overwhelm-island-fortress-built-to-protect-1m-home-4297851/ He wisely built the foundations higher that usual, but he wanted to make it a metre higher but the council planners refused to allow him to do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 The regular maintenance of small drainage dykes, leats and culverts often is down to local land/householders and is uncontrolled and neglected. "Oh what a lovely house with a garden and a bubbly little stream runs at the bottom of the garden." But few go to the trouble or expense of maintaining it. It becomes silted up or full of branches or worse. Eventually overflowing and flooding their properties. Then it suddenly becomes the government/council/water company's fault. No doubt there is some responsibility of local government to maintain drains in public areas but I think this is conveniently forgotten by everyone until they want to claim compensation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 14, 2014 A very pertinent observation there Mike. The practice of not clearing culverts and leats on a regular basis all over the country has proved to be false economy. There have been many instances of flooding due to surface water run off because the ditches and culverts that used to be regularly maintained being left to silt up. Polperro a few years ago comes to mind. Indeed I had personal experience of this when the leat at the top of my road became blocked and it over topped to six feet and nearly flooded my house. By making a fuss the council have done something about it and we've had heavier long periods of rain since (like today) without problem. We had it near here with the flooding back in 2003 - some houses were flooded at the far end of town and the basic cause was that the council had neglected to properly maintain and keep clean a roadside ditch which many years ago had taken over the function of an occasional and long vanished brook. Once there was enough water about the brook re-established itself but the ditch could hardly take that volume of water so it went into houses instead. Nothing like as serious as the Somerset Levels but basically exactly the same thing - failure to look after and maintain a drainage channel (although here its purpose had seemingly been forgotten by residents as well as the council. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 The stream at the rear of my property used to be cleaned twice a year the EA but for the last six years only once a year it has not flooded but if they cut back on maintainence we will have problems,in the countyside our local farmers clear their ditches regularily but councils do nothing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Gilbert Posted February 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 14, 2014 Ditto - blocked/neglected culvert leads to 2 feet of water at bottom of my hill - completely avoidable - now a couple of retired guys lower down clear it themselves! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted February 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 14, 2014 The regular maintenance of small drainage dykes, leats and culverts often is down to local land/householders and is uncontrolled and neglected. "Oh what a lovely house with a garden and a bubbly little stream runs at the bottom of the garden." But few go to the trouble or expense of maintaining it. It becomes silted up or full of branches or worse. Eventually overflowing and flooding their properties. Then it suddenly becomes the government/council/water company's fault. No doubt there is some responsibility of local government to maintain drains in public areas but I think this is conveniently forgotten by everyone until they want to claim compensation .I do agree Kenton, in some cases you are correct. In my case last year, I had a devil of a job to get responsibility for clearing from anybody. The district council deferred to county council who deferred to the EA who deferred back to district. In the end it was up to the residents. After much 'heath robinson' efforts we managed to deflect the raging torrent down the road outside our houses. It over topped my wellingtons when I stood in it. Ultimately it was admitted by the district council that It was their responsibility. Now their parish lengthsman has come three times since to keep things clear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Ditto - blocked/neglected culvert leads to 2 feet of water at bottom of my hill - completely avoidable - now a couple of retired guys lower down clear it themselves! Around here we pay (as a group of residents) a local team of self employed guys to clear the drainage channel along with the gutters (the road is unadopted). I don't see why I should expect some other house owner to pay for what I need done, they can pay for their problems. I expect the council to maintain public drains. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 by co-incidence going to be there tonight looking at the condition of the culvert mouths - yuk A big towel and a change of clothes in order methinks despite the weatherproof PPE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted February 14, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 14, 2014 The national news on the beeb and the local news now, the water levels on the new Somerset Sea are rising and the waves are like the "oggin" or a normal day. SS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Without going to far the thing as it is UNADOPTED the builders never paid the council money for them to take over the roads with the drain etc, and that means the builders don't have to bring the road up to the standard for the council to take over. As it isn't the councils land the council don't have to maintain it drains and allI think that's what Kenton meant, he doesn't mind paying for maintenance of his unadopted road and drainage, but relevant authorities should maintain the public ones Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted February 14, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 14, 2014 The regular maintenance of small drainage dykes, leats and culverts often is down to local land/householders and is uncontrolled and neglected. "Oh what a lovely house with a garden and a bubbly little stream runs at the bottom of the garden." But few go to the trouble or expense of maintaining it. It becomes silted up or full of branches or worse. Eventually overflowing and flooding their properties. Then it suddenly becomes the government/council/water company's fault. No doubt there is some responsibility of local government to maintain drains in public areas but I think this is conveniently forgotten by everyone until they want to claim compensation. When the water companies were publicly owned they had an obligation to keep waterways etc. clear. Upon privytisation this was dropped and was only recently (2010) passed on to the Environment Agency. The last thing the outgoing Labour government did was give the EA £3 million for flood prevention work, the incoming coalition cut that by 70%. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted February 16, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 16, 2014 Spotlight news has just reported that the Dutch pumps have been stopped due to excessive erossion of the river banks. It is unkown for how long as it will require a rethink on how water is discharged in to tbe river(s). More rain is forcast for Monday. Train services to Cornwall have resumed. SS edit for the un informed Dutch pumps are being used to pump water off the Somerset levels into the rivers. These have now been stopped. Also more rain is forecast for Monday which will undoubtably excasperate the situation. Over the weekend train services were suspended in Cornwall due to the adverse weather conditions Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted February 16, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2014 http://www.networkrail.co.uk/timetables-and-travel/storm-damage/ Best look at photo No 6 as not sure how to put copyright photos up hear. The photo is looking south with the hill in the top of the photo is where North Curry/Stoke St Gregory is and the flood in front is Curry Moor the next strip of dry land is where East Ling is in front of that you can see where the Yeovil branch went off after leaving the main line at Durston. Around the bottom right is the Bridgwater to Taunton canal which looks very close to the flood level. I have seen Photo 6 via work sources, and I agree, it can't be put up on here for those reasons. Very dramatic, though (taken from the NR helicopter the same day that mine were taken, I believe). Talking of which, I seem to recognise photo 5.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leavesontheline Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 I have seen Photo 6 via work sources, and I agree, it can't be put up on here for those reasons. Very dramatic, though (taken from the NR helicopter the same day that mine were taken, I believe). Talking of which, I seem to recognise photo 5.... I don't know why, but when I read about the Network Rail helicopter I get an amusing image in my head of a 'normal' helicopter, but with yellow ends and small retractable wheels at each corner, much like the Landrover in your post #986 from the 'Washout at Dawlish' thread!! http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_02_2014/post-57-0-11559700-1392321415.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 A Network Rail Video, on YouTube....here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted February 17, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 17, 2014 Looks like one of CK's photos is on the front page of Network rails website, rather artistically transformed to B & W Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Depot Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Presume the Dutch pumps where doing too good a job! Seems like the whole area will after to be long term looked at water level wise. Not a quick fix. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted February 17, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2014 It's looking as if the water levels have risen by approx 2 feet since the visit last Monday. Aerial photos from the HR helicopter on Saturday indicate both tracks under approx 2' of water... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 The undermining at the Parrett is being treated with - containers filled with rocks. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26230278 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talisman56 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Not in this case.http://www.somersetdrainageboards.gov.uk/operations/maintenance/ Got a 'whoops, page not found' on that one, but the existence of the Somerset Drainage Board (SDB) does raise the question of why the local Farmers, at least, pay a 'Rivers Maintenance Tax' to the Environment Agency (EA) as part of their outgoing costs (heard several times on local news reports when interviewing the latest farmer who has had to move their livestock out and abandon their farm/livelihood to the elements and the main criticism has been the EA haven't been doing what they are being paid to do). Is part of that money passed through to the SDB? Who actually has the responsibility for maintenance of the ditches, rhynes and rivers on the Levels - EA or SDB? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted February 17, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2014 The undermining at the Parrett is being treated with - containers filled with rocks. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26230278 Where NR lead the EA has followed! I hope that the clever NR guy who thought of this idea will get some thanks and credit from the EA....with my cynic's hat on I do doubt it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Looking at the video they're blue 20ft shipping containers. The guy mentions the blue, and they don't look like wire cages. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Looking at the video they're blue 20ft shipping containers. The guy mentions the blue, and they don't look like wire cages. Very odd that they're filling these before dropping them in to position; if they're filling them with wet mud, which appears to be the case, they'll be about 30 tonnes apiece, which will be a bit of a sod to move. It could be that the bank repairs will be done with stone-filled gabions, as the text suggests, and the ISO boxes are intended to be positioned to support the pump outlets beyond the wall. Whoever the person was who decided to place the outlets to empty half-way down the wall had never watched what water did to sandcastles as a kid... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymw Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 The Drainage Board looks after the ditches and rhines, the EA is responsible for the rivers and drains (KIng's.Sedgemoor, and the like). Afaik, the drainage board has done what they should be doing, whereas the EA has been neglectful of their task wrt dredging and keeping river courses clear. In order to catch up with the backlog of non-work, the EA will need to put in a 'bit of effort'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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