Camera repairs - is it worth the effort these days?

[jonhall]

My trusty Pentax K10D suffered its first failure after 6 and a bit years, the shutter isn't opening properly, are dslr's worth sending for repair, or should I bite the bullet and buy myself something new. I don't want to replace, but nor do I want to go to the Damfspectikal next month and have another total failure.

 

Any opinions on the Pentax K5 II?

 

Jon

[The Bigbee Line]

Jon,

 

I would get a new camera.  You could browse the internet to see if others have had similar problems and what they did.

 

A new camera should also have the latest gadgets and features.

 

Good luck

[Nedrahn]

No, it isn't worth sending in for repair. Get a new one with a guarantee, fresh circuitry and only a handful of shutter activations. That's the short and easy answer. However, in reality it depends on how much you enjoy that model, how well it suits your needs and how much it would cost to replace it with another K10D (secondhand, with all the risks of further failure) or a more modern model. 

 

If you send it in to be repaired, you can probably expect a minimum charge of around £70-£80. If the shutter module needs replacing that will involve a fair amount of strip down (serious work). If it ends up costing you, say, over £100 you would still have an old camera by digital standards. Other parts could fail. Only you can decide if it's worth it to you. Why not have a chat with your local camera shop, if you can find one? A chain store would be no good - they're only interested in selling you a new camera. You could contact Ricoh Pentax, but standard form would be to tell you to send the camera in and they'll assess it. Even if it's junk you'll still be billed for the assessment.

 

The service guide for the K10D has been made available online (most likely without the approval of Ricoh Pentax), but I would not recommend you attempt a major repair unless you are well versed in electronics and have some experience of dismantling and assembling SLRs. If you do decide to tinker, BE WARNED that the flash circuit can retain a potentially dangerous charge. Forget the low voltage of the battery. A flash capacitor can have a charge of over 300 volts. If a charge remains then you can get a very nasty shock. I've had one shoot up my arm before. It isn't to be recommended!

 

That's all doom and gloom, but before you bin the camera are you absolutely certain that the shutter has failed? A slow or failed diaphragm in the lens can sometimes lead to odd effects that one might at first attribute to a shutter problem. Check the camera with another lens. Also clean the contacts between the camera and lens. If the problem persists, take the lens off, set the camera to Bulb and fire the body, to see if the shutter opens fully (or at all). If it is opening, but nothing is being recorded (with the lens on!), then you've got sensor failure, either the sensor itself or the power circuit. Bad news. If the shutter isn't opening, or it's slow, you could try lubricating it with some graphite. NOTE: this is strictly at your own risk. With the mirror lifted by hand (if this is possible on that model), very gently rub on the blades with a pencil, getting a good coating but no little bits of graphite on the surface (it doesn't look good, but it's a bodge that can work - professional repairers are doubtless spluttering in horror now). Fire the shutter a number of times to see if this improves matters. This has worked well for me in the past, as has the use of isopropyl alcohol or lighter fluid, but it's much, much easier on a film camera where you can coat both sides of the blades (and it doesn't solve the underlying fault). On a DSLR you must be very aware of potential contamination of the sensor.

 

On balance I would very strongly advise you NOT to try tinkering with the shutter. However, if you decide that you're going to dump the camera, then you have nothing to lose. Please do take note of what I've said about the flash circuit. Think long and hard before opening up the camera. If you do get rid of the K10D, you could get a little bit of money back by selling it on eBay for parts.

[Oldddudders]

K10Ds don't sell for a lot these days. Of the few on ebay, this is from a respected dealer - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PENTAX-K10D-BODY-USED-7746-ACTUATIONS-UK-DEALER-STOCK-1-YEAR-GTEE-/141238395515?pt=UK_CamerasPhoto_DigitalCameras_DigitalCameras_JN&hash=item20e276e27b

 

A new(er) body would seem a better investment. You'd probably get video, too, if that appeals.

[Dunsignalling]

Discontinued digital SLRs lose their residual value very quickly, especially once their replacement model has itself been replaced!

 

If you like the camera you have, and assuming the fault isn't endemic to the model, it would probably be cheaper buy another one second hand than have yours repaired.

 

John 

[Nedrahn]

The person in Post 4 has suggested one option for a K10D. Another, cheaper option might be to check out the CeX chain. Their shops seem to be popping up everywhere. They sell the body only for £100, although a friend of mine recently negotiated one down to £90. It came with a limited guarantee, but it's still an old camera by digital standards. You could also keep an eye out for the Samsung GX10. It's the same camera, give or take a tweak or two.

[lyneux]

Jon,

 

Can't comment on your situation but was rather annoyed this week after shelling out another £400 to get my second repair in 5 years to my 5d mk2. Needs must...

 

Guy

[Oldddudders]

Repairs cost what they cost. When my D2h failed a few years back, I feared the worst (it was £2.5k new, so bits were gonna be pricey, too) but a new meter cell and labour only set me back £50.

[ZiderHead]

The last SLR I owned was a Canon A1 so I shouldn't really give advice on DSLRs. That said I have borrowed a range of Nikons and Canons (why are they so huge?) over the years and a Pentax K5 with a ?18-135 kit lens which was by far the nicest to use - small and solid feeling, responsive with a decent viewfinder. I'm told they have some weather protection too which is a bonus.

[PhilH]

I would say that although you might like your 6 year old camera have a look round at some newer models, and from different manufacturers. You might find that a more modern example, with perhaps more functions, will suit your needs / wants better.

 

Have said that, I've just bought a Nikon D7100, which is a stunning camera - but my favourite snapper remains my 60 year old Rolleiflex 2.8F medium format film camera.

 

edit - Rollei is a mere youngster at 50 years old.

[Nedrahn]

The person in Post 8 doesn't make it clear if his camera was suffering from the common D2h meter fault. If it was there's a possibility that Nikon took pity on him and did the job at a low cost, assuming it was repaired under Nikon. Apparently, this did happen to some D2h users, believe it or not. In any case it's a bit of a bogus comparison. There's a world of difference between sorting out a buggy meter and stripping out a shutter unit, especially with the added complication of the sensor block on a DSLR. If Ricoh Pentax came up with an estimate of £50 I'd be very surprised. An independent repairer might be able to offer you a better price, but in reality there's usually a stock price for common faults.

 

PhilH is certainly correct - you can't go wrong with a good Nikon, and a more modern camera might suit you better than a secondhand or repaired K10D. A Canon is an alternative, given the abundance of relatively cheap EF mount lenses floating around. However, if you've invested in KA mount lenses then that would still point towards Ricoh Pentax. Of course you could always buy the above mentioned Rollei, one of the best 120 film cameras ever made. The piggy bank will need raiding, though!

[Oldddudders]

The person in Post 8 doesn't make it clear if his camera was suffering from the common D2h meter fault. If it was there's a possibility that Nikon took pity on him and did the job at a low cost, assuming it was repaired under Nikon. Apparently, this did happen to some D2h users, believe it or not. In any case it's a bit of a bogus comparison. There's a world of difference between sorting out a buggy meter and stripping out a shutter unit, especially with the added complication of the sensor block on a DSLR.

I don't recall comparing anything to anything, and the Nikon dealer in Le Mans - who hadn't sold me the camera, and which was out of warranty - didn't tell me if he considered the fault to be common. I stand by my comment that repairs cost what they cost - do you know differently?

 

Perhaps you'd like to give us your take on D600 oilspots?

[jonhall]

Thanks to all the opinions, interesting that most have suggested the new camera route, it seems wrong to me, but I suppose we live in a disposable world. I'm certain its a sticking shutter because when I put it in Bulb mode and hold the button down without a lens mounted, the shutter only goes halfway before stopping, and the photo's are often only lower half exposed.

 

Olddudders - I used SRS when I bought my last lens, and may pop into their shop to look at alternatives next weekend.

 

I'm undecided about sticking with Pentax, certainly the choice/availability of 'cheap' lenses for PKa is a lot more limited than if I'd bought Nikon/Canon in 2007, but equally if the k5II uses the same battery I'd have a spare of those now, and I'd be buying body only...

 

One of the big appeals of the K10 (and K5II) is the numerous dust/moisture seals - are their any Canon/Nikon options that are competing with the 'robustness' of a K5II?

 

Jon

[Oldddudders]

Nikon has been producing upgrades at a fair rate, so you'd think last year's model should be discounted to your advantage. The problem is, we aren't buying enough, so you still find brand new models that are two generations old, e.g. at Argos etc, and in dealers' windows. I'm not sure whether Canon has the same issue.

 

Arguably 12mp is as much as most of us need unless we often do very big prints/enlargements. So a 12mp Nikon or Canon would see you through for years to come, reliability only excepted - again. Nikon's D90 and D300 have reasonable levels of weather-sealing, and there are consumer-priced lenses available - which are increasingly less suitable for the 24mp cameras Nikon now offers at all levels (except their top-pro camera which is 16mp!). The D3000/3100/5000/5100 are less well protected, but more affordable and two/three-generations old.

[Nedrahn]

I don't recall comparing anything to anything, and the Nikon dealer in Le Mans - who hadn't sold me the camera, and which was out of warranty - didn't tell me if he considered the fault to be common. I stand by my comment that repairs cost what they cost - do you know differently?

 

Perhaps you'd like to give us your take on D600 oilspots?

Repairs do usually cost what they cost. Funny that.

 

You were talking about a bugged out or failed meter. The K10D in question has, it would seem, a failed shutter unit. It's like talking about sticking valve gear when the loco at fault has a burnt out motor. Unless Jon is most fortunate, there's no chance whatsoever of a repair being cheap (although it would be cheaper than buying a new camera, he would still be left with an older DSLR that could fail again). It is possible that your D2h was repaired relatively cheaply at the time because of the known meter fault, which was presumably embarrassing for Nikon in a top end model. For a long time Nikon provided free or at cost repairs on cameras that suffered from the Sony black chip problem. However, Nikon made no effort to advertise this. The same could have been true of the D2h, which I admit is speculation.

 

I can't give you my take on D600 oilspots because I know nothing about them. I don't act as if I know everything, and I certainly don't parrot reviews. Much of what I do know has come from practical experience with a collection of 2000 to 3000 cameras, from Victorian wood and brass to digital. I also try to repair cameras for my own amusement, and sometimes for friends or charities. In recent months I've repaired the internal mechanism of a Sigma Nikon fit lens for a friend, brought a Samsung GX10 back to life, fixed a stop down fault on a Nikon D40X and repaired the body, overhauled the shutter on a Marion plate SLR, changed the screen on a Lumix, returned a jammed Topcon PR to service, sorted out the main magnet and electrics on an OM10, fixed the Canon cough on an A1, repaired the shutter on an Arette 1C, fitted a new part to the shutter of a Bolsey B2, and other jobs.

 

I know what is involved in camera repair, just as I know my limitations, which is why I have advised Jon that a major shutter repair will most likely not be cheap, given the amount of disassembly required. I happen to have read the K10D repair manual. Have you? If he goes ahead with a repair and I'm proved wrong, then I would be delighted for him.

 

Perhaps you would care to give us your take on reinstalling the mirror box in a Praktica L series, or fault finding on an opened up Compur shutter, or sorting out a sticking diaphragm on a Zeiss Contaflex, or replacing a failed wind linkage on a Paxette?

[beast66606]

Repairs do usually cost what they cost. Funny that.

 

 

 

Any need for this ?

[peanuts]

in this quandry myself as my nikkon D40 has started playing up all my pics are coming out under exposed and realy dark was fine first thing sunday  took a test shot was fine next one way dark even with flash tried all the info on the nikkon website they are recomending sending it to them for repair but its over ten years old now so not realy worth the cash . anybody got a very cheap nikkon dslr body going spare ?

[beast66606]

 

 

I'm afraid your patronising comments regarding a long time poster doesn't really do you any favours and simply makes you seem pompous - to me at least.

 

 

 

Personally I would get a quote from a reputable repairer but be ready to scrap the body if the quote is too high (which it is almost certain to be given the current value)

 

I am currently paying £400 for a jolly good overhaul to a Canon 'L' series 300mm lens, a lot but then the lens gets a 12month guarantee so it's a cheaper option than a replacement (over £1,000), however a £400 repair for a small zoom proved to be too near the cost of a brand new replacement (£450)and even with the 12 month guarantee I chose to scrap it.

[jonhall]

Well I called the repair agency that is listed on the Pentax (Ricoh) website, and whilst not all K10 bits are available they will do a free assessment, and if I don't want to proceed then they will send it back for a flat fee of £24, so including outbound postage, for an outlay of £35 I will  at least know if it is beyond economic repair or not (hopefully not) - I can live with that and it will get posted off tomorrow.

 

I'm surprised nobody suggested giving it a blast with air from a can - I tried using the dry nitrogen aerosol I use for purging open resin bottles, which rattled the shutter but beyond an interesting whistling noise made no progress.

 

Why does a digital camera actually need a shutter? Surely it could be done at least as accurately (or more so) using electronics to just make the sensor active for that fraction of a second selected - it would also make them cheaper to build and more reliable?

 

When I arrived home this evening I was quite decided to buy a k5ii AND send the K10 for repair (as a spare) but since discovering that the two have dimensionally similar batteries but with a different number of terminals*, so are not, on the face of things, interchangeable between K10 and K5ii, I'm less sure.

 

I've also downloaded PhotoME to interrogate the EXIF information, which points to me having a shade over 45,000 shutter activations out of it - I don't know if that's good or bad.

 

I've also remembered that a couple of weeks ago I had the catalogue for my 20 years service award at work, and amongst the stuff that I wouldn't go out and buy if it were my own money, is a cheapo JVC video camera, so perhaps I'll order that as a spare camera - certainly more useful than anything else in the catalogue.

 

Jon

 

*any number >2 would seem excessive on the face of things?

[Oldddudders]

Any news, Jon?

 

Just a couple of comments on your last post. My first DSLR, a secondhand Nikon D1, had an electronic shutter speeded to 1/16000 secs. That proved an unnecessary luxury, and from the D2h onwards mechanical shutters were the norm.

 

Shutter count is an interesting feature of DSLRs. 45k actuations equates to about 1250 36-exposure films, which sounds quite a lot, really. I have no idea what - if any - claims Pentax made for the shutter in your camera, but a typical shutter-tested-to figure for today's affordable Nikons is 150k, while the pro models have shutters tested to 300k or 400k actuations.

 

As far as battery contacts are concerned, I think this is about enhanced battery monitoring during charge and discharge cycles. For example, the EN-EL3a in my late wife's 2006 Nikon D70 has two contacts, while the upgraded EN-EL3e in the later D300 has three. The EN-EL14a in the current Df and D3300 has 5.

[jonhall]

£204 was the quoted repair price, but as  i've bought myself a new k5ii for a shade under £600 i won't be going ahead with it. I'm surprised they didn't want payment of the assessment/return fee up front.

 

Thanks,

 

Jon

[melmerby]

Deviating somewhat from the OP:

 

Does anybody know whether there is much of a market for non-digital SLRs?

 

I still have a Canon A1 and a couple of Canon FD lenses (24mm and 200mm) and SWMBO still has a T70.

I would like to give them a new home rather than throw them on the tip!

Neither have been used for years as I went on to using a £250 Sony compact digital camera, much more convenient and easy to carry!

 

I am now considering a more up to date compact/bridge camera with a longer zoom and more pixels.

 

Keith

[Oldddudders]

I think that Canon values have been hit by two changes of lensmount over the years - the breechlock giving way to FD in the early '70s, and then the EOS mount in the 80s. The A1 was very highly regarded in film days, the T70 perhaps a little less so, but you'd need to find a Canon specialist to get much value for them or the lenses now, I'm afraid. Significantly, these people http://www.apertureuk.com/ who I can recommend, deal in Nikon digital and film cameras of all eras, but only autofocus Canon.

[shortliner]

...and the odd thing is that you may well get fed up with lugging the bridge camera fairly quickly, and keep the compact in your pocket! I havent taken my Fuji s5500 or my  Sanyo Xacti ( which isn't large!) out anywhere for ages - the Fuji EXR compact does it all!

[alfsboy]

Can I just add a note .The file size isnt just to make large prints but to allow cropping right down .