Colin parks Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Hi Ron, Stupendous work once again! Thinking ahead to later on in your assembling of the painted sides to the inner sides, I am concerned that your solvent of choice, MEK, will cause damage to paint. Indeed, my recollection of using it many years ago was that MEK acted in much the same way as paint stripper when it came into contact with enamel paints. Humbrol Liquid Poly is a much safer bet and it will not affect painted areas whilst providing a really strong joint too. Having now seen examples of your work through the links in your posts, it would seem bold to be advising you any aspect of plasticard construction! All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 Hi Ron, Stupendous work once again! Thinking ahead to later on in your assembling of the painted sides to the inner sides, I am concerned that your solvent of choice, MEK, will cause damage to paint. Indeed, my recollection of using it many years ago was that MEK acted in much the same way as paint stripper when it came into contact with enamel paints. Humbrol Liquid Poly is a much safer bet and it will not affect painted areas whilst providing a really strong joint too. rivets are Having now seen examples of your work through the links in your posts, it would seem bold to be advising you any aspect of plasticard construction! All the best, Colin Hi, Colin You are definitely right with regard to the MEK stripping paint - noticed its action when sealing the rivet transfers - not only does it cut through the paint, but it also dissolves the carrier film which in some ways is useful if the rivets are in the right place as it doesn't appear to affect the rivets May have to see if any of the wargaming/car kit model shops have liquid poly available, and carry out a couple of tests Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 Have finished all the 'rivetting' on the first Motor Brake Third body side, and started on fixing the door hinges, then it's into the 'paintshop' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRail Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Not to mention building the following stock at the same time. Do the clocks run slower in Spain? The amount of work is amazing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Hi, Colin You are definitely right with regard to the MEK stripping paint - noticed its action when sealing the rivet transfers - not only does it cut through the paint, but it also dissolves the carrier film which in some ways is useful if the rivets are in the right place as it doesn't appear to affect the rivets May have to see if any of the wargaming/car kit model shops have liquid poly available, and carry out a couple of tests Cheers Ron Hi Ron, Beware the Liquid Poly sold by Daywat. It must be Humbrol Liquid Poly. I recently replaced the eight sides on two of my EMUs, with the painted roof and ends retained. The solvent did not cause a single problem with the enamel paint on the new pre-painted sides or the original painted roofs, so it's worth tracking the right stuff down. As for dissolving carrier film, try white spirit - no idea what that would be in Spanish! All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 Not to mention building the following stock at the same time. Do the clocks run slower in Spain? The amount of work is amazing Hi, Gary Perception is that they run faster, like everything that you enjoy doing - otherwise just one hour later than UK Repetitive tasks do speed things a little, but then tedium sets in and you have to find another job to relieve the brain strain Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 The rivets are done - the door hinges are done - the door handle and grab handle holes are drilled - just the electrical compartment access door hinges to fix The hinges for one of the three access doors ready to fix - they are surface mounted with flush rivets (that's why you can't see them) The 'paintshop' awaits, now the bridge beam is out and ready to fix Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Go easy on the size of them hinges tiger. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 Straight from the 'paintshop' - first coat - Drivers door opens inward so no visible hinges - Louvres RH top hinge requires lifting slightly OzzyO - from what I can gauge these hinges are the height of a single louvre Brake/Guard Compartment doors Compartment doors ... and yesterday's senior moment - missing beading between compartments level with top & bottom of windows Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAB Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 OzzyO - from what I can gauge these hinges are the height of a single louvre Just to clarify for others, (I am sure you know Ron) the outer edges of the three hinges on a door are in the same vertical plane - thus, because of the "tumblehome", the top and bottom ones "stick out" more than the middle ones (which have almost no height to them). The easiest way to reproduce this is to weld them on over-length, them trim them all back to the same line. Excellent stuff as always Ron. Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Hello Ron, I was thinking about the backing plates for the louvre doors hinges. It may look better without them? Just an idea (Colin Parks may be able to help), could you cut thin slots in the side and then fit strips of plasticard in from the back and then trim them all to the same hight vertically (so that all the hinge pins line up)? Cracking build all the same. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Hello Ron, I was thinking about the backing plates for the louvre doors hinges. It may look better without them? Just an idea (Colin Parks may be able to help), could you cut thin slots in the side and then fit strips of plasticard in from the back and then trim them all to the same hight vertically (so that all the hinge pins line up)? Cracking build all the same. OzzyO. Well actually, I always make the bottom hinges out of 10 thou. brass strip inserted in slots and super glued in from behind. The first unit I made started off plastic bottom hinges, but being longer because of the tumblehome, they were vulnerable and quite a few snapped off before completion due to handling so they were replaced with metal ones prior to painting. The shorter upper hinges and almost flush middle hinges can be made of plastic 10 thou. strip without risk of brakeage in my experience. David Jenkinson advocates inserting plastic strip into holes drilled in the coach sides with no mounting plates. That was in 7mm scale of course. He reckoned nobody noticed the hole once painted. I've never tried it, but none of my coaches have mounting plates. The hinges on Ron's equipment compartment doors look to scale to me though. I have noticed a couple of points having looked at the two most recent prototype photos: The equipment door top and bottom hinges should be at the same level as the passenger door hinges and the middle ones slightly higher. The door ventilators appear to be smaller and stand of the side a bit more than on the model. Having said that, unless you have a photo you'd never spot these things! All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 Just to clarify for others, (I am sure you know Ron) the outer edges of the three hinges on a door are in the same vertical plane - thus, because of the "tumblehome", the top and bottom ones "stick out" more than the middle ones (which have almost no height to them). The easiest way to reproduce this is to weld them on over-length, them trim them all back to the same line. Excellent stuff as always Ron. Cheers, Hi, Howard I think there may be some confusion as to my quote. I was referring to the actual height of the hinge rather than how much it sticks out from the body. The actual amount that the hinges protrude from the body has been taken into account. It is the angle which the photo has been taken that appears to show similar hinge protusions. Will post a picture to show the actual hinge protusions Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 Hello Ron, I was thinking about the backing plates for the louvre doors hinges. It may look better without them? Just an idea (Colin Parks may be able to help), could you cut thin slots in the side and then fit strips of plasticard in from the back and then trim them all to the same hight vertically (so that all the hinge pins line up)? Cracking build all the same. OzzyO. Hi, OzzyO Thanks Ozzy for all your input and comments The hinge backplates are actually thicker than the height of the rivet heads, and viewing the second picture in your post, the backplates are very obvious. On the model body side they appear to be thick because the single coat of paint still leaves the edges white and over emphasises them All the hinges are constructed using 10 thou strip of varying widths and lengths. The louvre door hinge pins are 10 thou x 10 thou strip The door hinges are already cut to size before fixing - the top hinges are 0.5mm deep, middle hinges 0.2mm deep, and bottom hinges 0.75mm deep, these provide a common vertical hinge line - all dimensions are taken from the construction drawings. Cutting precise slots in the body, fixing strips through and cutting to length is a bit messy, and really unnecessary. I appreciate that for rolling stock that is likely to be handled a great deal that all the detail needs to be almost bombproof, and that Colin's brass strip method would be most appropriate Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 Well actually, I always make the bottom hinges out of 10 thou. brass strip inserted in slots and super glued in from behind. The first unit I made started off plastic bottom hinges, but being longer because of the tumblehome, they were vulnerable and quite a few snapped off before completion due to handling so they were replaced with metal ones prior to painting. The shorter upper hinges and almost flush middle hinges can be made of plastic 10 thou. strip without risk of brakeage in my experience. David Jenkinson advocates inserting plastic strip into holes drilled in the coach sides with no mounting plates. That was in 7mm scale of course. He reckoned nobody noticed the hole once painted. I've never tried it, but none of my coaches have mounting plates. The hinges on Ron's equipment compartment doors look to scale to me though. I have noticed a couple of points having looked at the two most recent prototype photos: The equipment door top and bottom hinges should be at the same level as the passenger door hinges and the middle ones slightly higher. The door ventilators appear to be smaller and stand of the side a bit more than on the model. Having said that, unless you have a photo you'd never spot these things! All the best, Colin Hi, Colin There is slight difference in the height of the individual louvres which is causing the hinge level inaccuracy - the bottom of the lowest louvre is 1mm lower than it should be. I have set the hinges on the louvre doors at the level of the relevant louvre, and this then means with the exception of the lowest hinge, that the two upper hinges are too low. Will consider moving them up a touch With regard to David's fixing plastic strip in drilled holes - I reckon nobody dared comment on the holes around the hinges. Even in 4mm, drilling a 40 thou hole and fixing a 40 x 10 thou strip through it would definitely illicit a few comments The door ventilators are made from 10 thou strip, and it was a judgement whether a 10/15/20 thou gap was most likely Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 A couple of end on pictures showing the differing hinge depths - .... and the missing beading has been added, and the displaced hinge moved in line with the other two top hinges ... in view of comments in previous posts the upper hinges on the louvre doors will be repositioned Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 A couple of end on pictures showing the differing hinge depths - IMG_0669.JPG IMG_0670.JPG .... and the missing beading has been added, and the displaced hinge moved in line with the other two top hinges IMG_0665.JPG IMG_0667.JPG IMG_0666.JPG ... in view of comments in previous posts the upper hinges on the louvre doors will be repositioned Hi Ron, It's looking very nice with all those rivets added. All the best, Coin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 19, 2014 Author Share Posted May 19, 2014 No I haven't gone on holiday - had three concerts to do (Thursday, Friday and Saturday - for my sins I am the soundman. Two more on Wednesday and Thursday this week. On holiday from Saturday for a week - walking in the Pyrenees) The hinges have been repositioned, and the body side given another coat of paint - Bright sunlight from the right makes it appear the paint hasn't covered some parts properly ... next the remaining body side before glazing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRail Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Three concerts and a week walking in the Pyrennees, nothing like tkanig it easy is there? As ever very inspiring work, I know form reading this thread and the Manchester Thread it has taught me to try and not accept something I am not totally happy with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 Three concerts and a week walking in the Pyrennees, nothing like tkanig it easy is there? As ever very inspiring work, I know form reading this thread and the Manchester Thread it has taught me to try and not accept something I am not totally happy with. Hi, Gary Yes, you will always keep looking at it, and wondering why you didn't take a little more time to get it nearer to an acceptable result Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Great stuff. If ever there was a "steampunk" electric train, this would be it! Are you installing a mad professor behind the louvres, throwing one of those gigantic knife switches? Sorry, getting carried away there... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 Great stuff. If ever there was a "steampunk" electric train, this would be it! Are you installing a mad professor behind the louvres, throwing one of those gigantic knife switches? Sorry, getting carried away there... Thanks Think I must be the 'mad professor' twitching the knife behind the louvres Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 22, 2014 Author Share Posted May 22, 2014 Whilst I have now sorted all the necessary body details, there still areas of equipment detail required for the coach underframes A detail which has just come to light from examining dozens of photographs, involves the pantographs. The original dc pantographs were replaced sometime between late 1958 and early 1965 with a narrower pattern dc pantograph, and replaced again in 1968 with ac pantographs The original pantograph arms were positioned/pivoted outside the line of the pantograph mountings. The top ends of the upper arms were bent inward to the pivot points under the head. The narrower pattern replacements had the arms positioned inside the line of the pantograph mountings, and the upper arms were directly in line with the pivot points under the head As the layout spans a time period of 1955-1969, the narrow pattern dc pantographs will be fitted. I now have the pantograph etchings as supplied by Judith Edge. These will be slightly modified to match the prototype arrangement, with cross bracings in lieu of single diagonal bracings, and the spring arrangement will be double in lieu of single Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 Thought you would like this shot of one at Oxford Road. http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p782575866/h69fe101b#h26bb4fe4 and in the background of this shot of a new 304. http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p782575866/h69fe101b#h38aac289 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 31, 2014 Author Share Posted May 31, 2014 Back from the snow line in the Pyrenees. It's a little warmer and drier back home. There was a lot of 'deadtime' after the walking, and now raring to get back to the modelling. Will post update tomorrow Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.