Ron Heggs Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 Painting has been put on hold until Monday Afternoon/Evening - need to get more supplies including masking tape, etc. In the meantime, decided to cut the sides for the Motor Brake Third carriage - This will be one of the cars with louvres on the body sides - just for the challenge Close-up of one of the six sets of louvres - each of the 16 louvres 20 thou x 40 thou x 7.2mm sanded with a rounded top and ends - a little more fetteling required Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 The louvres look really nice. It is one of the harder bits to get to look right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermoth Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I agree the louvres have come out well not easy to get right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 A cheat (courtesy of Terry Tew of Earls Court fame) for the louvers that works, but is not quite as good, is cutting up sheets of plastic "corrugated iron" I have used this method when building London area LMS 3 Car EMU's which are basically a DC 3rd rail version of the M&SJR EMU's XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted May 5, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 5, 2014 This looks really good and the real units look fascinating Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 Not a lot to show at the moment - busy cutting and shaping all the remaining strips (80) for the louvres Then the over door vents require fitting The droplight masks are cut ready for when the glazing is carried out after painting the sides The roof for the Trailer Coach still needs shaping - this will be the next job. Then need to look at the Motor Coach roof especially where there is a dropped level for the pantograph Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Not a lot to show at the moment - busy cutting and shaping all the remaining strips (80) for the louvres Then the over door vents require fitting The droplight masks are cut ready for when the glazing is carried out after painting the sides The roof for the Trailer Coach still needs shaping - this will be the next job. Then need to look at the Motor Coach roof especially where there is a dropped level for the pantograph Ron Hi Ron, I can appreciate that sometimes there is no photo to show all the repetitive tasks that have to be done on a job like this. The louvres alone must account for a good day's work to complete all the panels. At least your glazing method will save some time which can be devoted to other things. I do not envy you the task of making the motor coach roofs. With the step down at the pantograph end, it is going to be interesting to see what you come up with as a solution. As the sides are to be firmly attached to the chassis, will your roofs be detachable? All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 8, 2014 Author Share Posted May 8, 2014 Hi Ron, I can appreciate that sometimes there is no photo to show all the repetitive tasks that have to be done on a job like this. The louvres alone must account for a good day's work to complete all the panels. At least your glazing method will save some time which can be devoted to other things. I do not envy you the task of making the motor coach roofs. With the step down at the pantograph end, it is going to be interesting to see what you come up with as a solution. As the sides are to be firmly attached to the chassis, will your roofs be detachable? All the best, Colin Hi, Colin The roofs will be detachable in the first instance. If they remain free from warping then that's how they will stay, otherwise ...... Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 8, 2014 Author Share Posted May 8, 2014 Motor Coach progress - Most of the body components laid out, and in various stages of assembly Vents assembled and fixed Body ends and compartment dividers fixed on basic floor plate - The pile of louvre strips off camera await fixing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 8, 2014 Author Share Posted May 8, 2014 The first set of three louvre banks fixed - just a little cleaning up needed on the left hand side - - needs hinges on the RHS of each of the three banks and rivets all round - vertical rows of approx 26 per row, 2 rows per bank and 1 row between each bank, and 9 per bank horizontally, top & bottom - out with the Archers (3D transfers not the liqueur) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Very fine job on the louvres, Ron. One of those jobs where accuracy has to be stepped up to 11! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJChurchward Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Hi, Colin The roofs will be detachable in the first instance. If they remain free from warping then that's how they will stay, otherwise ...... Cheers Ron Ron I've done a small amount of work forming curved roof sections in plastic sheet, and I initially had all kinds of trouble with warping. I solved this by roughly rolling to shape a piece of thin aluminium sheet to fit inside the roof, then coating both the plastic and aluminium with Araldite (I prefer the traditional 24-hour variety) before assembly. I'm sure you'll appreciate the technical reasons for laminated sections exhibiting better rigidity characteristics than either (or any) of the different materials used. Worth a try if it means you can avoid sealing up each vehicle and thereby retain access to the interiors for future upgrading. Also on the subject of curved roofs, but nothing to do with their rigidity... Did these vehicles have sheet steel roofs, or were they the traditional canvas-over-planking construction? If the latter, I had some success using planked plastic sheet (Evergreen is best for this) (the choice of plank width is limited), covering the assembled roof with tissue fixed with dope, as used by aeromodellers. In fact, roof planks were not chamfered at the edges in the same way as (eg) wagon and van bodies, so the groove between adjacent planks, present in commercial plastic planks, shouldn't be there. You do see the groove through the tissue if it's been stretched over the roof, sealed at the edges, then wetted to cause it to shrink and tighten before coating the whole roof with dope. (This is the technique recommended by the aeromodelling community, however they have good reasons for wanting the tissue to form a tight skin over a wing profile, for example. Maybe it doesn't need to be shrink-fitted on coach roofs.) You might be able to further refine this technique using your Cameo, half-cutting through a plain sheet of plastic to form sharper joint lines, ie without any visible grooves. This also gives you total control over the plank width, of course. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Also on the subject of curved roofs, but nothing to do with their rigidity... Did these vehicles have sheet steel roofs, or were they the traditional canvas-over-planking construction? If the latter, I had some success using planked plastic sheet (Evergreen is best for this) (the choice of plank width is limited), covering the assembled roof with tissue fixed with dope, as used by aeromodellers. In fact, roof planks were not chamfered at the edges in the same way as (eg) wagon and van bodies, so the groove between adjacent planks, present in commercial plastic planks, shouldn't be there. You do see the groove through the tissue if it's been stretched over the roof, sealed at the edges, then wetted to cause it to shrink and tighten before coating the whole roof with dope. You might be able to further refine this technique using your Cameo, half-cutting through a plain sheet of plastic to form the joint lines. This also gives you total control over the plank width, of course. Andy I would not think it is a good idea doing this. I am sure the coach builders wanted the roof planks a tight as posible to stop the canvas cover wearing on the joints. The chamfers on wagons etc are to stop the joints getting too wet, not to look pretty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 9, 2014 Author Share Posted May 9, 2014 Ron I've done a small amount of work forming curved roof sections in plastic sheet, and I initially had all kinds of trouble with warping. I solved this by roughly rolling to shape a piece of thin aluminium sheet to fit inside the roof, then coating both the plastic and aluminium with Araldite (I prefer the traditional 24-hour variety) before assembly. I'm sure you'll appreciate the technical reasons for laminated sections exhibiting better rigidity characteristics than either (or any) of the different materials used. Worth a try if it means you can avoid sealing up each vehicle and thereby retain access to the interiors for future upgrading. Also on the subject of curved roofs, but nothing to do with their rigidity... Did these vehicles have sheet steel roofs, or were they the traditional canvas-over-planking construction? If the latter, I had some success using planked plastic sheet (Evergreen is best for this) (the choice of plank width is limited), covering the assembled roof with tissue fixed with dope, as used by aeromodellers. In fact, roof planks were not chamfered at the edges in the same way as (eg) wagon and van bodies, so the groove between adjacent planks, present in commercial plastic planks, shouldn't be there. You do see the groove through the tissue if it's been stretched over the roof, sealed at the edges, then wetted to cause it to shrink and tighten before coating the whole roof with dope. (This is the technique recommended by the aeromodelling community, however they have good reasons for wanting the tissue to form a tight skin over a wing profile, for example. Maybe it doesn't need to be shrink-fitted on coach roofs.) You might be able to further refine this technique using your Cameo, half-cutting through a plain sheet of plastic to form sharper joint lines, ie without any visible grooves. This also gives you total control over the plank width, of course. Andy Hi, Andy The trial roof is made from 4 full width laminations (3 x 40 thou + 1 x 20 thou) and 2 narrow laminations (40 thou) at both roof eaves. It has been partly shaped by scraping and sanding. The next step is to use a former to check the shape conforms along the whole roof. So far after two weeks it is still flat without any signs of warping. but it is possible to glue a aluminium or steel strip under the crown of the roof With regard to the roof on the prototype - the roof sheeting was thin steel panels approx 2' wide. The timber roof formers at 2' centres with angle strips fixed either side to which the steel panels were rivetted. An additional steel former was fixed midway between the timber formers as a support and fixing location. The Steel panel was also rivetted to this former. It would appear that the steel panels were butt jointed. The whole roof being covered in canvas - the width of the canvas and the joints cannot be determined from any of the pictures I have A picture of the wet pattern which shows the form of the underlying roof panelling - A view of the roof structure - Will continue with the trial roof and see what develops - can always change course if it doesn't work out as expected Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 9, 2014 Author Share Posted May 9, 2014 Scraped and sanded the roof of the Trailer Coach to shape - Covered with a paper surface Trimmed the coach compartment dividers to accept the roof Rainstripping, torpedo ventilators, gutter stripping, downpipes, grab handles all need fitting - ... and painting Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 10, 2014 Author Share Posted May 10, 2014 A small update to the Motor Brake Third - One of the inner body layers fixed First set of rivetting added - additional rivets to be placed midway between all these - to appease all those rivet counters ? ... and the Trailer Coach - Rainstripping added to the roof Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 These coaches look good. You certainly build quicker than I do. The louvres really look the part something that is not easy to with them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 10, 2014 Author Share Posted May 10, 2014 These coaches look good. You certainly build quicker than I do. The louvres really look the part something that is not easy to with them. Hi, Peter Thanks - Maybe I have more time to model. Certainly speed is not important The louvres are a challenge in styrene - metal would be a better medium Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Those look like the Archers rivet strips Ron? Not that you need advice, but I always find them to be reluctant to stick, so I'd get a coat of primer over them asap. Cracking work so far. It's looking really good. Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 10, 2014 Author Share Posted May 10, 2014 Those look like the Archers rivet strips Ron? Not that you need advice, but I always find them to be reluctant to stick, so I'd get a coat of primer over them asap. Cracking work so far. It's looking really good. Cheers. Sean. Hi, Sean Yes, they are Archers, .... and they don't adhere at all. Hoping I can place the additional rivets over the top, and then apply the paint. Although I may give them a quick blow over first, and then place the additional rivets over this very light coat Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted May 11, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 11, 2014 As ever Ron some smashing modelling. SS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Archers transfers don't adhere to unpainted styrene very well, though to be fair they do say that in the instructions. When I've used them this way I've run a very thinned coat of clear gloss varnish round them to help seal them down. To take away any edge to the varnish you need to wash away the excess with white spirit before it sets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Ron A super bit of modelling yet again and I am certain you have covered this but what solvents do you use please. The reason I am asking is that on thinner strip/sheet some of the more aggressive types tend to distort/melt them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 11, 2014 Author Share Posted May 11, 2014 Ron A super bit of modelling yet again and I am certain you have covered this but what solvents do you use please. The reason I am asking is that on thinner strip/sheet some of the more aggressive types tend to distort/melt them. Hi, John On this build it's only MEK with a very small brush - it dries quick and makes a clean joint but won't take any stress or strain as the 'weld' isn't very deep. From a general handling viewpoint any solvent can be a problem especially with very small detail as the item can stick to the tweezers if you're not quick or have too much solvent on the brush So far distortion is reserved to the outer body sides which have a slightly outward bow (1mm each end) along their length due to all the added detail on the outer face being fixed with solvent and all the glazing being fixed with CA on the inner face. This should be corrected when these sides are fixed to the inner body sides/body assembly Ron PS. Bridge builds requires a different approach as the structure requires strength so good wleded joints are necessary - plasticweld is used for these tasks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 11, 2014 Author Share Posted May 11, 2014 A quick spray over the rivet transfers, and placed the second level of transfers over the right hand column - Compare right hand column of rivets with left hand column Despite the slight wobble, appear to have come out ok - did have to use a drop of MEK over the top level of transfers to seal them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.