Colin parks Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Hi, Colin I am cutting masks for the droplights in the doors in 5 thou which will be fixed the rear of the outer sides before fixing over the glazing/inner layer. This may mean some judicious placing and alignment of the glazing Cheers Ron Hi Ron, That sounds like a good plan. You are certainly introducing a few innovations with the construction of this model. All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted April 30, 2014 Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 The coach sides retrieved from the 'paint shop' - They look ok with all the detail showing quite well - it's cotton gloves from now on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 That's certainly very tidy work Ron! The raised edges of the silhouette cutter's cuts gives the effect of bolection frames around the quarter lights. I am not familiar with these units, although I did look at Michael Delamar's links. Is this coach a trailer third and are there four or three coaches per unit? All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted April 30, 2014 Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 That's certainly very tidy work Ron! The raised edges of the silhouette cutter's cuts gives the effect of bolection frames around the quarter lights. I am not familiar with these units, although I did look at Michael Delamar's links. Is this coach a trailer third and are there four or three coaches per unit? All the best, Colin Hi, Colin The sets comprise a Motor Coach (6 - 3rd class compartments), Trailer Coach (originally 5 - 1st class compartments + 4 - 3rd class compartments, later 3 - 1st class compartments + 6 - 3rd class compartments), and a Driver Coach (9- 3rd class compartments). They also ran in back to back 6 car units (2 - 3 car sets both facing outwards i.e. a Motor coach at each end). Later trials with additional coaches didn't prove successful Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I agree with Colin, they do look good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 Produced the droplight masks - Didn't have sufficient 5 thou styrene, so used premium grade copy paper (4 thou thick) - Cut the window openings Then sprayed the sheet - this ensures that the window opening edges are painted as well Cut out individual window masks Fitted them to the rear face .. and here is how they look The sides will now be glazed - the seat windows and door droplights will be glazed separately to ensure no gaps occur around individual windows due to the differing framing depths (4 thou difference) The coach compartments will need panelling detail and upholstered seating - looks like a batch process is in the offing The interior has been painted a basic brown for starters The roof has been built up from styrene laminations - just needs shaping Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Hello Ron, sorry to be picky, but we all know how good your work is. But these drop lights don't do it for me. When you look at the photo below it looks like the bottom edge is getting thicker. I at first thought it's just how it was cut out of the sheet. But then when I seen them in place in the coach side! When you compare them to the coach windows that have been cut out using the same M/C? They just jar, you may have an idea to sort them out, I don't know. It maybe how the settings are on the M/C but when you have got all of the coach side windows so nice. I would be a shame to spoil the look of them with the drop lights. Could it be the use of different materials that has caused it, or how you have drawn the window shapes. As some people have mentioned about that with the Cameo M/C. It still looks very good, please take what I'm saying in how it's meant, your workmanship is fantastic. ATB OzzyO. PS. I'll still look for books for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I am glad I am not the first to mention that. At least using styrene they could be filed to square them up, difficult with paper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share Posted May 2, 2014 Hello Ron, sorry to be picky, but we all know how good your work is. But these drop lights don't do it for me. When you look at the photo below it looks like the bottom edge is getting thicker. I at first thought it's just how it was cut out of the sheet. post-10633-0-32235500-1398966826.jpg But then when I seen them in place in the coach side! post-10633-0-41059700-1398966940.jpg When you compare them to the coach windows that have been cut out using the same M/C? They just jar, you may have an idea to sort them out, I don't know. It maybe how the settings are on the M/C but when you have got all of the coach side windows so nice. I would be a shame to spoil the look of them with the drop lights. Could it be the use of different materials that has caused it, or how you have drawn the window shapes. As some people have mentioned about that with the Cameo M/C. It still looks very good, please take what I'm saying in how it's meant, your workmanship is fantastic. ATB OzzyO. PS. I'll still look for books for you. Hi, OzzyO Thanks again for your comments - I must have had my eyes closed to this The offending droplights have been removed from the coach side. The recommended cutter speed for copy paper was used this may be the problem - maybe ok for craft work, but not modelling work Closer examination of the cut-outs show that three of the corners are not true arcs, this appears to be caused by a too high cutting speed Will sort this - as this droplight window is a common feature to all the coaches, and must at least look right Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share Posted May 2, 2014 I am glad I am not the first to mention that. At least using styrene they could be filed to square them up, difficult with paper. Hi, Mike Please don't be afraid to comment - this is my first foray into coach building and always open to helpful criticism - even if only to point out the smallest errors/mistakes/blemishes, etc. Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 It may not have worked, but I am extremely pleased you tried as we all learn as much from the mistakes as the successes. Someone has to be first to try something ;-) For a first foray, it is looking really good, and you are probably the first to use the Silhouette for a Jenkinson type approach, which I am quite excited about (perhaps I should get out more!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share Posted May 2, 2014 Finally resolved the cutting problem The solution is to cut the straight lines first, then the arcs for the corners - this prevents the cutter blade from making off line cuts when changing from straight lines to curves, and vice versa The painting will be done tomorrow morning, and fitting tomorrow evening - may have some of the droplights in lowered (part and full) positions - appears to be a common occurrence as pictures show Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Hi Ron. Reading through your topic, I found the link the Michael Delamar's 'Last days of the 505's. With the subject of the drop light frames being discussed a the moment, it struck me that the droplight frames on the coaches in this picture are different to those you are cutting: http://www.flickr.com/photos/12a_kingmoor_klickr/5817324361/ The drop light frame is visible on all four sides. Or is this different stock? All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaulCheffus Posted May 2, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 2, 2014 Hi Ron.Reading through your topic, I found the link the Michael Delamar's 'Last days of the 505's. With the subject of the drop light frames being discussed a the moment, it struck me that the droplight frames on the coaches in this picture are different to those you are cutting:http://www.flickr.com/photos/12a_kingmoor_klickr/5817324361/The drop light frame is visible on all four sides. Or is this different stock?All the best,ColinHi Those cab fronts in the photo seem to have a lip around the front as discussed further up the thread. Cheers Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share Posted May 2, 2014 Hi Ron. Reading through your topic, I found the link the Michael Delamar's 'Last days of the 505's. With the subject of the drop light frames being discussed a the moment, it struck me that the droplight frames on the coaches in this picture are different to those you are cutting: http://www.flickr.com/photos/12a_kingmoor_klickr/5817324361/ The drop light frame is visible on all four sides. Or is this different stock? All the best, Colin Hi, Colin Your observations are quite right. The droplight frame is visible on all four sides. The replacement frames have already been redrawn and cut with what will be visible framing all round Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share Posted May 2, 2014 Hi Those cab fronts in the photo seem to have a lip around the front as discussed further up the thread. Cheers Paul Hi, Paul The same effect is also visible on pictures of the driver end of the driving trailer. In all cases pipework obscures the presence or otherwise of a lip. The driver ends of both the motor and driving carriages have metal framing in lieu of timber framing. The only possible way to determine whether a lip did exist is to view the original drawings which are held at NRM York 185 Body Framing for Driving Trailer Car. M.S.J. & A. Electric Stock 01/06/1931 187 Body Framing for Motor Cars. M.S.J. & A. Electric Stock 01/06/1931 1583 Third Class Motor Car. M.S.J. & A Electric Stock 01/05/1931 1584 Third Class Driving Trailer Car. M.S.J. & A Electric Stock 01/05/1931 1599 End Elevation of Motor Car. M.S.J. & A Electric Stock 01/05/1931 1600 End Elevation of Driving Trailer. M.S.J. & A. Electric Stock 01/05/1931 Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Hi, Colin Your observations are quite right. The droplight frame is visible on all four sides. The replacement frames have already been redrawn and cut with what will be visible framing all round Cheers Hi Ron, As with OzzyO, I am not trying to be hyper-critical of your work, but getting these small details right is something I'm sure you want to do. The good thing about RMweb is that you can be sure of plenty of help & advice when constructing models of interesting prototypes. All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 3, 2014 Author Share Posted May 3, 2014 Hi Ron, As with OzzyO, I am not trying to be hyper-critical of your work, but getting these small details right is something I'm sure you want to do. The good thing about RMweb is that you can be sure of plenty of help & advice when constructing models of interesting prototypes. All the best, Colin Hi, Colin It is as you say, the small details that are the making of the model, and so must be as accurate as one can make them to reflect the whole of the prototype Always grateful for all comments Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Hi, Colin It is as you say, the small details that are the making of the model, and so must be as accurate as one can make them to reflect the whole of the prototype Always grateful for all comments Cheers Ron Hi Ron, I am eagerly awaiting the next post from you. Once you get the method right for this coach, you will be able to use the formula to churn models out in any number. As a matter of interest, how many units will your layout require? Your layout's name, 'Manchester Central' would suggest you will need more than one! All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 The same effect is also visible on pictures of the driver end of the driving trailer. In all cases pipework obscures the presence or otherwise of a lip. The driver ends of both the motor and driving carriages have metal framing in lieu of timber framing. The only possible way to determine whether a lip did exist is to view the original drawings which are held at NRM York There are a couple of early photos of the front end of both the driving trailer and the power car on page 187 of vol 3 of Jenkinson and Essery. These show no lip at all, and lots of small rivets. From these photos I would suggest that the 'lip' is an photographic artefact caused by the proximity of the gutter down pipes. In the RCTS Locos of the LNER there is a photo of M28575 which has the louvres sheeted over and the gutter down pipes set in close to the end windows, again there is no sign of a lip on the edge of the end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JCL Posted May 3, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 3, 2014 Finally resolved the cutting problem The solution is to cut the straight lines first, then the arcs for the corners - this prevents the cutter blade from making off line cuts when changing from straight lines to curves, and vice versa The painting will be done tomorrow morning, and fitting tomorrow evening - may have some of the droplights in lowered (part and full) positions - appears to be a common occurrence as pictures show Hi Ron are you saying you redrew the rounded corner rectangle as a number of separate straight lines and arcs and then cut the windows out in two passes? I like the idea of painting the sides before gluing them up. Cheers Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 3, 2014 Author Share Posted May 3, 2014 Hi Ron are you saying you redrew the rounded corner rectangle as a number of separate straight lines and arcs and then cut the windows out in two passes? I like the idea of painting the sides before gluing them up. Cheers Jason Hi, Jason Yes. I drew the windows as four straight lines and four arcs Note: the media is premium copypaper 4 thou thick For Silhouette users - Cutting the straight lines first (which I had coloured red and selected for the first cut - speed 4, thickness 15, blade 2), then deselected the lines, and selected and cut the arcs (which I had coloured blue for the next cut - speed 1, thickness 15, blade 2) Due to the blade pivot action when cutting arcs, etc. I had already repositioned the arcs 0.1mm left of their true position. The line ends and arc ends matched perfectly when cut The painting of the body and sides before fixing reduces the need for perfect masking and brushwork but it does require the parts to be made to fit perfectly. There's no going back to fill gaps etc.and touch up Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 3, 2014 Author Share Posted May 3, 2014 The droplight window masks have been redrawn, cut and painted The first coach side as been fitted with glazing, including the droplights The coach side has only been placed on the body, and not fixed The droplight on the extreme left has been fixed in a lowered position The droplight on the middle has been fixed in a much lower position Brass wire window bars (two per window) need fixing inside the doors Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted May 3, 2014 Author Share Posted May 3, 2014 Hi Ron, I am eagerly awaiting the next post from you. Once you get the method right for this coach, you will be able to use the formula to churn models out in any number. As a matter of interest, how many units will your layout require? Your layout's name, 'Manchester Central' would suggest you will need more than one! All the best, Colin Hi, Colin These units never ran into Manchester Central. Instead they ran over the adjacent viaduct lines into Deansgate and Oxford Road stations. The unit/s will be used to run over the said viaducts (including the viaduct bridge currently under construction - details in my main topic/thread) which are adjacent to the Castlefield and Cornbrook Viaducts. I hope to make at least two 3 car sets. They can then be run as two separate sets or as a single six car set. The lines on which they will run will be fitted with OHL masts and wires as per the prototype Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 There are a couple of early photos of the front end of both the driving trailer and the power car on page 187 of vol 3 of Jenkinson and Essery. These show no lip at all, and lots of small rivets. From these photos I would suggest that the 'lip' is an photographic artefact caused by the proximity of the gutter down pipes. In the RCTS Locos of the LNER there is a photo of M28575 which has the louvres sheeted over and the gutter down pipes set in close to the end windows, again there is no sign of a lip on the edge of the end. Hello Ron all, when you look at this photo of the front end it may? have a thin angle iron running down the front joint that has been fitted using flush headed rivets. As far as I can tell this was the only motor car that had the louvres plated out. Looks like you'll have a lot of fun on them front ends. I'm glad that you did decide to redo the drop-lights, the new ones look so much better. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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