Bachmann - why price increases are necessary

[coachmann]

Just pre-ordered some LMS 'Porthole' coaches from Hattons. Now why would a coach builder do this you might ask.  A need to keep up to scratch with developments in bodies and bogies, they are a snip at £24.00, and if the windows offend me I'll fit brass sides. I've already built some portholes and the Bachmann compo and brake third intrigue me as I am wondering how correct they will be.

 

Compo : Quadruple trussrods, predecessor of Mk.I roof and un-LMS tumblehome.

Brake Third : Sides over lapping solebars and deeper cantrail.

[rembrow]

I heard about the Polybulks on Saturday from my local retailer, who had been advised by his Bachmann rep. The increase is over 60%. There is a similar rise of over 60% for the next batch of Southern Region brake vans, which will now be £23.95 for the unweathered version. Now that the Bachmann price lists are getting fully updated on the website, we can see the full extent of the new pricing and as Andy Hayter has posted, it seems that items with a greater level of manual input have a much higher level of price increase, but realistically does the labour cost increase of 20% justify rises of over 60% on some products. I can't see Bachmann being able to shift a further version of the Polybulks at over £50 or probably nearer £60 by the time they are released. Bachmann didn't show these type of examples at their press release, was it selective marketing to make the pill a bit sweeter

[coachmann]

Manufacturers have to charge what they have to charge. Looking back on countries that did 'our' manufacturing in the past, companies would normally be fleeing a country when wages were increasing, but China has obviously known this would happen and took steps to make it expensive to jump ship. But one cannot buck the market for ever and no doubt China will be a forgotten land in ten years time with manufacturing taking place in India or Africa or even our home countries judging by the lousy pay young people get in the UK today.

[giz]

I am not sure if kits were ever made to compete with RTR on price. By the time you add in the extra parts you need such as wheels, buffers, paint transfers, the price is normally comparable to RTR anyway. And that is not counting the time to build and paint.

 

Kits provide the opportunity to build models that are not available RTR. They also provide fun and challenge for those of us who like builing and painting our own stuff.

 

If you look at a couple of the new Bachmann wagons, the Pipe and Tube, they are listed at £20.95 and £24.95 respectively. OK there will be a bit of discount.

 

Parkside will sell you a kit for each of these (including wheels but no paint or transfers) for £6.95 and £9.00.

 

A lot of people buy rtr wagons because they are relatively cheap and save time to spend on other projects but when you see that sort of price difference I think many will go for the kit.

[farren]

I am not sure if kits were ever made to compete with RTR on price. By the time you add in the extra parts you need such as wheels, buffers, paint transfers, the price is normally comparable to RTR anyway. And that is not counting the time to build and paint.

 

Kits provide the opportunity to build models that are not available RTR. They also provide fun and challenge for those of us who like builing and painting our own stuff.

as this thread is about cost and not fun it isn't real a point that should be used i do totally agree with you on it though,  but some find fun in opening a box just as much,A lot of model kit come with wheels  most modeler would probably already have some paints in black for a start. and transfers tend to do more than one wagon, and how many times have we hard the RTR are cherry picking the best kits already made by one company or another. this could also throw the kit makers a life line.  

[TheSignalEngineer]

Looks like my kit stash will take a hammering when the dark nights return.

[ThaneofFife]

Well, since you asked: you could, for example, own shares in one or other companies, and be planting conspiracy theories which would enable you to take profits from subsequent movements in share prices. See: conspiracy theories are easy. And generally are not very nice.

 

Why on God's green earth would you simply assume that reputable companies like Bachmann and Hornby are part of some pricing conspiracy designed to fleece us all of our money by excess profiteering - and compounding that by also deliberately trying to deceive us?!

 

I see Dapol has just announced 20% price increases - are they part of the conspiracy, too?

 

Paul

Listen Paul, youre letting your imagination run into over time or being plain provocative.  I am a man of straw and have no axe to grind with Bachmann at least not on a level that my tongue in cheek comments should be taken as having ulterior motives.

 

Do you want to take this further or do we understand each other now?  Do me a favour and "Back off" with the ulterior motive comments.

[ThaneofFife]

......and to think one can get into this type of discourse over bloody model trains.........if only more people would talk to each other over the internet in the same way and with the same respect as they would face to face.

[Fenman]

......and to think one can get into this type of discourse over bloody model trains.........if only more people would talk to each other over the internet in the same way and with the same respect as they would face to face.

 

I completely agree! 

 

Paul

[Oldddudders]

Deuce. New balls, please.

[admiles]

A visit to my local model shop today saw me witness an event I never thought I'd see.

 

Farish prices at the same level (and in some cases a fair bit more!) as Fleischmann N gauge (also now manufactured in China) for comparable items.

 

   

[darren01]

for the next batch of Southern Region brake vans, which will now be £23.95 for the unweathered version.

That is hell of a rise for a brake van! ,and have you seen this for these brake vans.£ 20.95 20 Ton Brake Van BR Bauxite (Late) Weathered and £19.95 for the  non-weathered one and this one.£ 21.95 Midland 20T Brake Van BR Grey (with Duckets) this is way more than just a 20 % increase they said that would be added on to there models!.

When they released the press statement they said that it would be an increase of 20% this year, well looking at the listing for there models a lot of it has gone way above 20%!.

Yes they go on about cost going up in China and that is a good thing for the workers , but i believe that these price rise's are to cover the fact that so few models are actually making it to market and when they do they are such small amounts that they have to charge the higher cost to make a profit.

Now we are starting to see what really is going on with the prices, it makes the poll on here about how we feel look a little bit left behind, I for one will not be paying such outrageous prices that are now coming up for a model, but will be looking at Kits or the second hand market in the future!.

I just do not Know how the shops will keep in business at these sort of price rises.   

[farren]

They did not say 20% they said an average of 20% so some things could go up by a lot more well others might not move at all, all done to make things pay.

[JSpencer]

Given that we went through a period when we had lots of great quality items at cheap prices, and we are now passing into a period of not many items at higher prices. I think one can conclude that we are entering a period whereby people will slow down buying new stock.

 

I am pretty much stocked up from the cheap and plentiful era, only novel new models can really interest me now and I doubt I will buy several examples.

 

I have even started buying kits again.

[coachmann]

No doubt the collectors and regular RTR buyers keep their eye on the ball, but for us modellers who only purchase when we need it, things are sticky at the moment. I've managed to miss out on the Bachmann 'C' class (for its chassis), Hornby LNE 01 and BR Britannia. If the latter two models were Bachmann's, I wouldn't be bothered and would await reintroduction, but seeing as they are Hornby's, their next release might be in dumbed down form ala the DOG.

[Fenman]

... When they released the press statement they said that it would be an increase of 20% this year, well looking at the listing for there models a lot of it has gone way above 20%! ...

 

Here's what Andy Y actually reported - check out the very first post on the first page:

 

"There's variations in the increases for the reasons given above but they average around 20% increase on the RRP ..." [my emphasis]

 

Bachmann said that Chinese wages were increasing by 20%, but that they had done calculations for every model to make the new prices reflect the actual costs - hence the variation in the % change.

 

Paul

[rembrow]

While some may disagree with me, the use of the term 'average' is normally used where values are clustered closely together or where you are seeking a mathematical mid point from a range of values. For prices, where there, as now appears, to be a wide difference in the level of price increases to be applied, from about 15% to 60%, the use of the 'average' is irrelevant and confusing. In these circumstances it would have been clearer and more transparent to show the price increases as 'a range from 15% to 60%'. The view that the rises were of the order of 20% was reinforced by the examples that Bachmann gave at the press conference, where the lowest was the E4 at about 15% and the highest was the Derby Lightweight at about 25%. Those examples reinforced the opinion that the rise was around 20%. There was no example given of the 50-60% magnitude. Was that selective marketing (spin) by Bachmann or had they not done their sums across the product range.

I've been to both the local model shops in my area, and both are deeply concerned at these increases, particularly those at the higher end and are anticipating significant reductions in the level of ordering, so whatever we think, the shops on the ground are likely to be holding less stock as they don't believe they can sell it.

Another interesting point came up in the conversation with one owner, about Bachmann's discounting policy of no more than 15% in the first 'x' weeks. With these level of increases affecting items due to be released in the next few months, such as the Porthole coaches and the Class 101 DMU, how will that square with some mail order companies guaranteed prices for pre-order items. For example Hattons has the porthole coaches at £24 as of last night, yet the new retail price is £39.95. So under Bachmann's discounting rules, they can't sell them for less than £33.96. They probably will have to pay about £24 for them at the new wholesale price. Interesting times.

['CHARD]

No doubt the collectors and regular RTR buyers keep their eye on the ball, but for us modellers who only purchase when we need it, things are sticky at the moment. I've managed to miss out on the Bachmann 'C' class (for its chassis), Hornby LNE 01 and BR Britannia.

Those Brits really are irresistible, and as such I am now embarrassed at my total. It was a good couple of tenacious years spent plucking these beauties from the darkest recesses of the web.

[Paul Cram]

It never ceases to amaze me as to the number of people who do not understand the term average. If scenic items are only increasing by 5% it also follows other items are going to have a much larger increase. Shops holding fewer items may not be the retailers choice but rather their inability to order more due to restricted supply.

[JSpencer]

To be honest, when they were talking about increases, I doubt anyone here was including scenic items in the samples. Most people will instantly look at locos and rolling stock and deduce the average or range of increases from that.

 

The fact that brown turf has gone up 5% or even that they may have some new colour of turf coming out next year is unlikely to open up a discussion thread here.

 

I agree that if the range of increases varies from 15 to 60% then it is better to state it as such. This probably occurs because the 60% will apply to those models with lots of fittings.

[Fenman]

... I agree that if the range of increases varies from 15 to 60% then it is better to state it as such. ...

 

But looking at a Class 85, for example - definitely not a scenic item! - the price increase appears to be less than 2%.

 

I can't see anything wrong in Bachmann telling us the average overall damage, and giving some examples. They then followed-up a few days later with the full price list. While I'd have preferred to hear all the news at one time, their approach seems to me to be perfectly reasonable.

 

While some of us may hate the price increases, it doesn't feel to me to be very comfortable to suggest that Bachmann have been deceitful when it seems to me they have been extraordinarily open. 

 

Paul

[GordonC]

Thats one that I'd noticed which puzzled me too Paul. With AC locos having a reputation for being more expensive it seems odd that things like Class 47s are now coming up to meet (or thereabouts) them in price. Not that I'm complaining if it means better prices for AC locos in comparison!

[newbryford]

 

But looking at a Class 85, for example - definitely not a scenic item! - the price increase appears to be less than 2%.

 

 

But is the low increase on price for stock already in hand and unlikely to be replaced with another production run? Is this a way of saying that AC OLE stuff doesn't sell and they want to shift it?

 

As a comparison, what's the increase on the Class 350?

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Andy Y]

Another interesting point came up in the conversation with one owner, about Bachmann's discounting policy of no more than 15% in the first 'x' weeks. With these level of increases affecting items due to be released in the next few months, such as the Porthole coaches and the Class 101 DMU, how will that square with some mail order companies guaranteed prices for pre-order items. For example Hattons has the porthole coaches at £24 as of last night, yet the new retail price is £39.95. So under Bachmann's discounting rules, they can't sell them for less than £33.96. They probably will have to pay about £24 for them at the new wholesale price. Interesting times.

 

The discount limit (which applies for the first 90 days as people keep neglecting to add) applied to items announced after a certain date and, without checking, I'm pretty sure the Portholes were announced before that date.

[AngryMeerkat]

 

 

But is the low increase on price for stock already in hand and unlikely to be replaced with another production run? Is this a way of saying that AC OLE stuff doesn't sell and they want to shift it?

As a comparison, what's the increase on the Class 350?

Cheers,

Mick

Or is it a case of an AC being a risky move to start with, so is costed very carefully. Whereas a 47/37/66 is pretty much a staple item and guaranteed seller so the costings at the time of commission were a little looser? Now times are hard, the exact cost vs volume sold is being worked out and amended instead of just being offset against something else or placed in the loss column.

 

Mark