edcayton Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 There's a programme about this on Radio 4 now. I like paper books, mag's and papers, and I like going to libraries. My son (well read) does not possess a paper volume, and hasn't been to a library since he was in metaphorical nappies, although he is an IT tech so he has the ability (and time) to find stuff that is "out there". I know many on here already look at mag's on-line, so would it really matter if paper and libraries disappeared? Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Williams Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Yes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 I make regular use of my local library and my eldest son (just coming up for 9) has just started to as well. Go on my son! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 There will always be demand for paper books as many people just love the physical media. However, this is different from libraries that require buildings, staff and all the associated costs. We (as a nation) probably need to have a debate about whether the tax payer wants to continue to fund this. We do have the option of digital libraries these days as an alternative. Personally I never use our local library but I am not saying it should be closed. There needs to be some analysis about use/cost/benefit etc. although this may already be underway. I do get the impression that libraries are a bit like Woolworths in this country. Not enough of us use them but we all cry out when they close. :-) Paddy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted June 13, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 13, 2014 My local library now even has a coffee shop! But late evening opening is now very much a thing of the past. As they are now stocked with computers it is a bit like an internet cafe with books. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CLARENCE Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 I for one would not be without my local library! I read a LOT, 5 or 6 books a week ( I admit "only" crime novels!) and as a pensioner on a limited budget, would find it hard to justify the costs of IT type reading matter. We do have a very good library, run by the Northumberland Library Service. Wouldn't be without it. Cheers, David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Market65 Posted June 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 13, 2014 Hi, this is something which has concerned me for some time. I do like to read paper books and mags. Now, I've found out that the Ordnance Survey paper maps are to be abolished. So the thing with Libraries is that they probably are ending up with less hard copies of books, mags and maps - our local library is mainly digital now, which means for myself that I access the material off the Internet more than ever before on the computer at home. I'm getting most of my railway stuff off the Internet now - I used to get much of it from our Library. People keep saying it is progress. All the best, Market65. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dava Posted June 13, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 13, 2014 Libraries are essential in a civilized society, I don't believe printed OS maps will be abolished as they sell well. Not everything you want is digitized. Dava Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fender Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 there are also issues of accessibility and ownership of digital media. I, for one, want access to all my media whenever I need it. I don't want access restrictions because I am out of the country or because my subscription expired. when I pass away I would like to think that anyone who is interested could make use of the media I possess, not that my account will simply be deleted along with all my files. right now you can inherit your parent's record collection. can you inherit things stored in the cloud? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Mornin' all, I find that the growth of the internet has resulted in my buying more books because I can find rare books and books which I didn't know existed quickly, pay for them and have them delivered to my door with little hassle. Books are entirely different from electronic technology. Libraries in the form that we've traditionally known them may come and go but books will simply become available in more/varied and accessible ways. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TheQ Posted June 14, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 14, 2014 By the age of 12, 1971, I was reading 8 books a week from the town library and 4 books a week from the school library 50/50 fact/fiction. As you can see I could read and retain a lot of information, my brother, 10 years younger than me, was even better at retaining information. I've slowed down reading so much since then. I would point out the factual books I was reading were aimed at adults on, railways, history, archaeology and science. And the fiction Asimov, and other science fiction plus history based books. Our parents could not have afforded to buy the books.. I do not enjoy reading on this tablet or on a PC as much as off of paper. I bought 3 books yesterday and read one last night 200 pages in 2 hours. Luckily we have "the works" and a charity book shop ( all books a pound) 20 miles away. I also buy a fair amount of books from abebooks as well. The local 4 miles away library is two small rooms, I very quickly read through anything of interest, it now costs to order in books, whereas it was free years ago. So I stopped using it. But I would hate to see them gone, there must be many parents who cannot afford books but their child can borrow from school or public libraries. I have yet to find many factual books available online and until they do my electronic library will be small, I hope by then tablets will be easier to read. My house is drowning in books and magazines (SWMBO has a large selection of art books as well) I would dearly love the have it all on computer and give me some space back. Oh the railway shed will have about 500 ft of book shelf space. The Q Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanuts Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 think this applies to films as well i have a freind who used to buy all his films online and put them strait into a big hard drive he thinks i am mad and old fashioned for buying dvds or he did until hid hard drive corrupted and he lost something like 200 films that he now has to pay for again but thats progress for you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Barnet Council have reduced the book stock held by its libraries over the last 20 years, to the point where there's hardly anything to read. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 As bookselling was my career for fifteen years - I can wade in with an insider's view. The issue isn't about what proportion of the population still prefer to read printed versus digital, but whether that proportion makes the former financially viable. A drop of say 20% in book sales may not seem catastrophic (80% of the sales are still there), but given how slim profit margins are on books, that wipes out most bookshops' profits, so they can't stay open. Equally with libraries - what is an acceptable funding per user? If it costs say £100 subsidy a year for each person in a community to fund a library, but only 20% of them actually use it, is that cost fair? What if only 1% use it? That means the subsidy per user is £10,000 - where do you draw the line? The volume of information available to us via the internet is stupendously large, so there is quite certainly far more content to read, in a variety of different mediums, on different devices- including 'books'. This is a good thing. The bad thing is that the quality or accuracy of what is out there is mostly appalling. Libraries and bookshops have been excellent at selecting good quality material to present to people, whereas the internet lets any fool sat in his underpants 'publish' any old tripe. Sadly, as I said above, there is no money left to be made in bookselling, or a financial justification for community libraries (in the old-fashioned full of books sense), but it certainly won't be the end of the printed book, it will just become a bit of a niche product, expensive, but worthwhile to those who still treasure them. As for libraries - if you want a good one, head to your local university. Generally universities are still operating marvellous libraries - the one at mine is breathtakingly comprehensive (50,000 books just on the Arts). A very interesting effect of this digital revolution is that the meaning of the word 'book' is actually undergoing a change. An increasingly large proportion of people (especially children and teens) now see 'book' to mean the content rather than the actual physical thing, so a new word for the paper 'boxes' you see on shelves everywhere is probably going to be needed... David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Probably stopped reading books (cover tor cover style reading) after I left Uni some 40 years ago. The research aspect and need to digest scientific journals and papers then really put me off, along with having to write the same. Libraries much the same. I do not visit for reading material only for research material. I could not care less if the local library closes, but would be aghast if the true research libraries closed. Books, I still read a few - stuck on a plane, airport, or relaxing on a beach, business in a foreign hotel - but the book tends to be factual. I think they should all be digitised. Book access is totally controlled by the massive publishing houses and the media. You are fed what they think you should have. Most of the books frankly should just be burned. Except perhaps Fahrenheit 451. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Hi David, You raise some interesting questions about Public Libraries. What exactly are their purpose these days? They seem to be going the same way as BT phone boxes i.e. can their cost be justified when almost everyone has a mobile phone? If Public Libraries are there to provide access to written material irrespective of wealth at the tax payers expense then this should be done at the lowest possible cost (given the huge demands on the public purse). The Government could sponsor the transfer of past "books" online and pass laws stating that every new publication must be available in electronic format. The electronic library could be accessed from a web site or dedicated app. The cost of this could be part funded through the sale of library buildings, the selling of existing stocks of printed books and staff reductions. The trouble is that it is easy to write the above and in some respects it seems reasonable. However, we are talking about people losing their jobs and the removal of a public service in physical form. Are people actually willing to vote for this? I suspect the politicians will simply let Public Libraries whither away rather than make a proactive choice. Edit: Mind you, if almost every written publication was available online "free of charge" then one wonders whether the publishing industry would survive? If any book is just a click away then why would you buy it? Paddy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 30801 Posted June 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 14, 2014 Book access is totally controlled by the massive publishing houses and the media. You are fed what they think you should have. Most of the books frankly should just be burned. Except perhaps Fahrenheit 451.The advent of e-books and self publishing is changing all that. The most obvious example is Fifty Shades of Grey, but a better example would be Hugh Howey and his 'Wool' books, soon to be a major motion picture etc... I recently bought 23 days which is the wartime memoir or someone's granddad I read about on a Honda Jazz forum (this is a paper thing, not digital). TBH I've no idea if its any good or not as it's just gone into my book stash. Discovery without a publisher can be difficult, but you can get stuff out there... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted June 14, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 14, 2014 Hi, this is something which has concerned me for some time. I do like to read paper books and mags. Now, I've found out that the Ordnance Survey paper maps are to be abolished. So the thing with Libraries is that they probably are ending up with less hard copies of books, mags and maps - our local library is mainly digital now, which means for myself that I access the material off the Internet more than ever before on the computer at home. I'm getting most of my railway stuff off the Internet now - I used to get much of it from our Library. People keep saying it is progress. All the best, Market65. https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/blog/2014/03/maintaining-national-coverage-of-paper-maps-in-great-britain-commitment-from-ordnance-survey/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 30801 Posted June 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 14, 2014 https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/blog/2014/03/maintaining-national-coverage-of-paper-maps-in-great-britain-commitment-from-ordnance-survey/ I have a GPS device for my bicycle and it has a 17 hour battery life, which would do for any ride I'm likely to go on. Even so I don't think any of my paper maps have needed charging even after several years use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium mezzoman253 Posted June 14, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 14, 2014 Essex libraries allow books to be returned and taken out in any library, not just your local ones. So we tend to make a trip of it and find one we haven't been to before and go there. We haven't exhausted the list yet. They are also diversifying by using the library for things such as toddlers clubs and some have coffee shops and there's a big take up of the computers in most libraries now. Yes they are relevant are need to remain open. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CLARENCE Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 I forgot to add one important point to my previous post. My local library, along with most others, as far as I know, is completely free to use. Access to millions of books, for NOTHING. Cheers, David. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 ....Most of the books frankly should just be burned. ... In the 1930s, the Germans did exactly that. They also incinerated artworks.....and people. You're in good company. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Libraries do indeed need to evolve. Go back 20 years ago and they could easily be defined - they were the primary source of information in a community. Pre-internet, you went there to look something up, so you could say whether they have books in them is kind of irrelevant, information is what we expect them to contain, which is why most now seem to be full of computer terminals and public records. If it were down to me, I would create a new concept for the library that combines the following: library, health centre, village hall and post office. Merging multiple community functions into one well-designed public building would create a local hub and allow communities to keep all these services (especially post offices) as their shared overheads make them financially viable. When you stop to think about libraries, they are actually quite remarkable things - like running water, bin collections, schools, the NHS - all those things that just happen and we take them for granted. With libraries, the state funds public access to and the ability to borrow millions of books, for free. Someone else organises all this for us, without us having to do a thing. Their purpose and viability might be questionable given changes to how we access information now, but their principle should be upheld, protected, and applied where possible to the digital age. That we live in a country where when you want to look something up or learn something new, the state provides a free location for you to go and do this, is something we should never take for granted. As the saying goes, their threat of closure is most definitely a first world problem... David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iL Dottore Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 there are also issues of accessibility and ownership of digital media. I, for one, want access to all my media whenever I need it. I don't want access restrictions because I am out of the country or because my subscription expired. when I pass away I would like to think that anyone who is interested could make use of the media I possess, not that my account will simply be deleted along with all my files. right now you can inherit your parent's record collection. can you inherit things stored in the cloud? A very good point, and the reason I do NOT buy into electronic media. The content comes with just too many limitations (as a tangential example, I can watch a programme "live" on the Beeb thanks to my Swisscom TV subscription, I can record the same programme on my hard-disk receiver, I can not access that same programme via the Beeb's i-Player due to "copyright restrictions"... does that make sense? Hardly) I dare say iPads, Tablet PCs and Smart Phones are all very well for transient ephemera (such as today's newspaper) and for the younger generation who aren't great readers (???), but for the long term storage of knowledge, art and literature? I doubt it. The cloud notwithstanding, hard copies need to be retained as back up. After my demise, I want my friends and family to pick through my library for things they'd enjoy (and the remainder can be donated). There is also the tactile pleasure in reading and re-reading physical copies of books. I must confess that I remain, an unabashed, unreformed, unreconstructed and thoroughly unrepentant book "snob" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted June 14, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 14, 2014 I forgot to add one important point to my previous post. My local library, along with most others, as far as I know, is completely free to use. Access to millions of books, for NOTHING. Cheers, David. These days there are quite a lot of county libraries these days that do the same with e-books. You sign up with them for free and get a 'borrowers id' just like you used to a physical card which can then be used to borrow e-books from their site. Once borrowed by someone, that 'book' ceases to be available for 2 weeks (or whatever the standard borrowing time is) then wipes itself from the readers e-device at which point it reappears on the libraries stock list ready to be downloaded by the next borrower. For example http://www.eastsussex.gov.uk/libraries/elibrary/ebooks/downloading.htm Thus the only cost is a fairly basic e-reader that is capable of using the "e-pub" format and with the increase in popularity they are quite reasonably priced these days (Note Amazon Kindles DON'T use this format, as they use a propriety format, something very reminiscent of Apple versus everyone else in computing terms). Of course e-readers aren't really suitable for picture books or books with lots of illustrations but if text is what you are interested in then both fiction and non fiction titles are catered for Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.