Mr_Tilt Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 The permissible limits for Voltage variation in the UK and Ireland are a voltage range of 207 Volts to 253 Volts. This is in accordance with European Standard EN50160. And a lot of use that is when it really counts. Yet another Euro-Rubbish Standard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted December 30, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 30, 2015 As I understand it, the general range for power in this country is 220V to 240V. Outside that seems to be a bit of a lottery on whether a device will work or not. At 250V, some devices can burn out. I had a Belkin UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply - don't laugh ) that I used to use down in a house in Poole. Unfortunately, that house seemed to have an up to 250V electricity supply according to the power meters I had at the time, and though other devices like TVs, computers and the like seemed to be OK, my UPS actually couldn't handle it and kept tripping out. Eventually it burnt out (with smoke!), had to be replaced, and the second one burnt out as well. The third never got plugged in. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted December 30, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) Wow. I knew there was a lot more tolerance on Voltage compared to frequency, but did not think it was that much. I still think there would be questions and complaints before it got anywhere near those limits mind, especially as 207 is quite a long way from the 240V it is supposed to be and could lead to synchronous motors burning out. 207-253v is 230v +/- 10% I don't think the UK has been a standard of 240 for a few years. I've certainly never measured anything near 240 for awhile now. (I often see stuff rated 220-240v) Cheers, Mick edit: Apologies for wandering way off topic (forgot this was the APT-E thread - won't do it again....) Edited December 30, 2015 by newbryford 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roddy Angus Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 The nominal RMS voltage in the UK was reduced from 240v to 230v in 1994. In the UK, there is a legal allowance of + or - 10% around the nominal voltage as the cost of replacing transformers and equipment set for 240v would have been astronomic. Old equipment rated as 240v should still work without any problems, as should older European devices which were designed for 220v. Roddy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymw Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) Not that long ago, parts of Bristol, and elsewhere, had a declared voltage of 210V, while other parts were 240V. A fair bit of expense and effort was put into getting it all to 240V. Then, as much of Europe was on 220V (luckily at 50Hz) manufacturers wanted the supplies to be the same as UK. (or depending on how you look at it, UK to be same as Europe). There has to be a voltage tolerance, generally it was +10%/-6%. So, by changing the UK (the smallest market) declared voltage to 230V, that allowed stuff to be made that worked all over Europe, Since 220V falls within 230V +10/-6% tolerance and then it was aligned further a couple of years or so to +/- 10%. If you have, say, filament lamps rated at 240V they will be dimmer on 230V, but you'll save a bit on electricity costs, and the lamps last longer. It is not a Euro-rubbish standard, but a sensible solution to allow entry to a bigger market for manufacturers, and hence lower cost, or higher profit. fwiw, most electronic devices work quite well on a wide range of voltage (and frequency) these days, and many others, if essential, will have various voltage settings. Edited December 30, 2015 by raymw Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Tilt Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 It is not a Euro-rubbish standard, but a sensible solution to allow entry to a bigger market for manufacturers, and hence lower cost, or higher profit. fwiw, most electronic devices work quite well on a wide range of voltage (and frequency) these days, and many others, if essential, will have various voltage settings. It IS a Euro-Rubbish Standard if the tolerance band is from 207 VAC to 253 VAC. That's not a standard at all, it's far too wide. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 47137 Posted December 30, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 30, 2015 It IS a Euro-Rubbish Standard if the tolerance band is from 207 VAC to 253 VAC. That's not a standard at all, it's far too wide. I believe the technical expression is "you can drive a bus through it". Perhaps (to get this back on topic) an APT - Richard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted December 30, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 30, 2015 If +/- 10% works then a tighter standard would be unnecessarily onerous and thus more expensive to provide and to design goods to comply. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymw Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Too wide a tolerance for what, these days? At a time when generating stations are being reduced in numbers, folk objecting more to erection of overhead lines, not wanting to pay more for energy, etc, etc, a wide voltage tolerance allows considerable savings to be made, with little impact on the majority of users. If it is a problem to you, you can get a voltage regulator installed. The UK voltage is 230V nominal voltage, not actual voltage, in the same way as the new 3.7V lithium ion cells, which can vary from 4.2 volts down to something like 3.0V or so when discharged, compared to the older Nickel cadmium cells, which had a relatively constant voltage, until the knee-point was reached. The equipment is designed to work in that range - it's the new/lean way of doing things. Industrial,/commercial users can have a 'special arrangement', and for domestic users, it really doesn't matter. What exactly is the problem? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37081LochLong Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Hmmm! I seem to have wandered into the wrong thread! I was sure this was the APT-E thread? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Of course us idiot Brits don't just screw up the scale and run our trains on narrow gauge but we insist on using 220v rather than 110v to power them. That gene puddle gets even shallower. I was commenting on one of the more daft comments on the Faceache report which seemed to imply the poster thought our models ran on 220v dc, not 12v. It wasn't a cue for a technical bull and cow on the variability of UK mains voltage or whether the EU are trying to electrocute the population. Aaaanyway, as it seems our trans-atlantic fellow modellers are also convinced the APT-E was a lab rat and never ran on the network, I suspect their knowledge of our wiring is equally dodgy. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 The nominal RMS voltage in the UK was reduced from 240v to 230v in 1994. In the UK, there is a legal allowance of + or - 10% around the nominal voltage as the cost of replacing transformers and equipment set for 240v would have been astronomic. Old equipment rated as 240v should still work without any problems, as should older European devices which were designed for 220v. Roddy Just thought I would check, and what do you know, voltage at my home is currently (no pun intended) 232V Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Tilt Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Aaaanyway, as it seems our trans-atlantic fellow modellers are also convinced the APT-E was a lab rat and never ran on the network, I suspect their knowledge of our wiring is equally dodgy. Conveniently ignoring the fact that many of their own trains wouldn't be running anywhere near as fast and stably if it wasn't for the work we did back in the 70s on APT-E. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I had to smile at the Facebook comments.... Ignorance is bliss as they say. You get impression that someone thinks the entire world is 110 volt mains with only the UK being different. I suspect someone else is jealous because NAM oddballs and prototypes are more rarely covered and as for the waiting since Sept 2014, well mine was ordered on the first day and I am not complaining. I took the proof reading post as joke. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted December 30, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 30, 2015 Regarding comments, sometimes it's not worth reading the bottom half of the internet... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaulCheffus Posted December 30, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 30, 2015 Regarding comments, sometimes it's not worth reading the bottom half of the internet... Hi I think Dave Gorman would disagree. Cheers Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 God almighty. Just imagine what a 'found poem' would be like comprised only of RMweb comments!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Tilt Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 A Happy New Tilting Year you lot. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted January 2, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 2, 2016 A Happy New Tilting Year you lot. Plenty of tilting on my part, but it was probably alcohol related......................... Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Vodka and Coke? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted January 3, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) A Happy New Tilting Year you lot. A lot of tilting on my part, as after my operation I'm not allowed to lie on my back Edited January 3, 2016 by Budgie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRail Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Plenty of tilting on my part, but it was probably alcohol related......................... Cheers, Mick Eggnog I presume given its colour Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidotrains Posted January 3, 2016 Author Share Posted January 3, 2016 Hi all, Here are the latest photos from the factory. Underbodies painted and printed: Boy, you Brits need a lot of logos on your models. We just have to put "CHINA" on models for the North American market. Thankfully, North America is not part of the EU. We're happy to be a bunch of yahoo ex-colonies. It's a good thing Bill thought of these logos a couple of weeks ago. "Hey, Locomotion - what are the funny doodles you need us to put on the models?" My, what a lot of bogie bits! Why settle for one computer bank when you can have hundreds? Production is coming along nicely. We anticipate the first 500 trains arriving in Shildon in early February, with the remaining trains and extra carriages arriving in late February. -Jason 16 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidBird Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 ... Production is coming along nicely. We anticipate the first 500 trains arriving in Shildon in early February, with the remaining trains and extra carriages arriving in late February. -Jason Just for interest, as I've had mine ordered for a while now, how many are you making in total? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidotrains Posted January 3, 2016 Author Share Posted January 3, 2016 Just for interest, as I've had mine ordered for a while now, how many are you making in total? If we told you, we'd have to lock you in a cupboard for seven years. Let's just say we're making a "bunch." -Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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