Sheffield Exchange, Toy trains, music and fun!

[Clive Mortimore]

It would be for moves like that, or locos arriving from somewhere other than the Sheffield exchange loco sidings to take a train out.

I'm pretty sure that shunt aspects are used at Waterloo when putting a train into an occupied platform, so I assume that's the normal procedure. Maybe you'll never actually use it, but I suspect that BR would have.

I'm sure someone who knows what they're on about will be along to correct me and say that main aspects were used for that kind of thing and the applicable dates etc...

Hi Zom

 

Ah! Another thing I haven't contemplated, locos arriving from elsewhere. I know that at many termini stations even with a loco yard there would be locos coming and going to the nearby shed, it isn't something I do. I suppose I could add them even if they are never used, then all I need to do is wire up the red aspect. 

[Clive Mortimore]

It shouldn't be too arduous to add a specific isolation section to one platform line, should it?

Hi Stu

 

That seems a good idea. All platforms have about a foot or so isolating to hold a loco. The trouble is how long to I make a isolating section for DMUs. Two foot for a two, Three foot for a three car or four for a four car? Do I have a switch for every foot the first four feet when It is hardly going to be used. I have sort of settled in to one fiddle yard siding for a train be it a single car parcels unit of a full eight car DMU, and the same with the platforms. It keeps life simple.

 

I was going to divide the fiddle yard sidings so I could have two or three short trains per siding but soon found only having one train per siding means when I return a train irrespective of its length I know there will be an empty fiddle yard road for it. That is why I have kept all platforms and fiddle yards to the same length.

 

I have just driven the two peak hours only hauled non gangway sets, one to Huddersfield and the other to Wakefield via Doncaster. The station has six DMUs being readied for their next journeys, on shed are four diesel locomotives and two steam, with no trains as yet for them to haul.

[Andrew P]

Hi Stu

 

That seems a good idea. All platforms have about a foot or so isolating to hold a loco. The trouble is how long to I make a isolating section for DMUs. Two foot for a two, Three foot for a three car or four for a four car? Do I have a switch for every foot the first four feet when It is hardly going to be used. I have sort of settled in to one fiddle yard siding for a train be it a single car parcels unit of a full eight car DMU, and the same with the platforms. It keeps life simple.

 

I was going to divide the fiddle yard sidings so I could have two or three short trains per siding but soon found only having one train per siding means when I return a train irrespective of its length I know there will be an empty fiddle yard road for it. That is why I have kept all platforms and fiddle yards to the same length.

 

I have just driven the two peak hours only hauled non gangway sets, one to Huddersfield and the other to Wakefield via Doncaster. The station has six DMUs being readied for their next journeys, on shed are four diesel locomotives and two steam, with no trains as yet for them to haul.

''C'' PLUS?            

[Clive Mortimore]

''C'' PLUS?            

No I am not biting,I have made my choice of model railway control and am more than happy to have two trains rotating around the room as I drive the standard 4 2-6-0 off the turntable.

 

All without an extra "C".

[Andrew P]

No I am not biting,I have made my choice of model railway control and am more than happy to have two trains rotating around the room as I drive the standard 4 2-6-0 off the turntable.

 

All without an extra "C".

I wouldn't want it any other way my friend, ……………………..except       haha

[31A]

Hi Stu

 

That seems a good idea. All platforms have about a foot or so isolating to hold a loco. The trouble is how long to I make a isolating section for DMUs. Two foot for a two, Three foot for a three car or four for a four car? Do I have a switch for every foot the first four feet when It is hardly going to be used. I have sort of settled in to one fiddle yard siding for a train be it a single car parcels unit of a full eight car DMU, and the same with the platforms. It keeps life simple.

 

I was going to divide the fiddle yard sidings so I could have two or three short trains per siding but soon found only having one train per siding means when I return a train irrespective of its length I know there will be an empty fiddle yard road for it. That is why I have kept all platforms and fiddle yards to the same length.

 

I have just driven the two peak hours only hauled non gangway sets, one to Huddersfield and the other to Wakefield via Doncaster. The station has six DMUs being readied for their next journeys, on shed are four diesel locomotives and two steam, with no trains as yet for them to haul.

 

 

I put the isolating section breaks half way along the platforms, rather than making short sections at the buffer stop ends.  This means the 'inner' end can accommodate a two car DMU (or a three car if I had any), and another DMU can be brought in on top and coupled, as long as the inner one has been stopped with its rear cab just inside the section.  It also means locos which have brought trains in can follow the outgoing train when it leaves behind another loco, as long as you switch the 'outer' section from one cab to the other after the outgoing loco has passed off it onto the 'main line' section.  All of which is easier to do than it is to describe!  It would only cause a problem if I wanted to bring an engine onto the rear of a very short train, say a tank engine and two coaches, but I don't usually run trains that short.  If I did, it would still work but the inward loco would have to stop well back from the buffers.

[newbryford]

It shouldn't be too arduous to add a specific isolation section to one platform line, should it?

 

Resists mentioning ***

[Clive Mortimore]

I put the isolating section breaks half way along the platforms, rather than making short sections at the buffer stop ends.  This means the 'inner' end can accommodate a two car DMU (or a three car if I had any), and another DMU can be brought in on top and coupled, as long as the inner one has been stopped with its rear cab just inside the section.  It also means locos which have brought trains in can follow the outgoing train when it leaves behind another loco, as long as you switch the 'outer' section from one cab to the other after the outgoing loco has passed off it onto the 'main line' section.  All of which is easier to do than it is to describe!  It would only cause a problem if I wanted to bring an engine onto the rear of a very short train, say a tank engine and two coaches, but I don't usually run trains that short.  If I did, it would still work but the inward loco would have to stop well back from the buffers.

Thanks Steve

 

I am quite happy with the way I operate Exchange. As I have said it was never in the plans to have more than one train in the platform at anyone time. If I do decide to add that as an operating procedure I will have to ensure the power car is the leading coach as it enters the station so I can use the loco isolating section. It will not work where I have a pair of DMUs as the second one will also be powered and outside the isolating section.

[Clive Mortimore]

Resists mentioning ***

Hi Mick and Andy

 

:banghead: No extra C  I am happy in my little world. 

 

    My toy trains run quite nicely without an extra C. This evenings operating session saw a couple of operator errors but only one derailment and that was in the Manchester sidings. 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Clive Mortimore

[Clive Mortimore]

I forgot a song last night.

 

[Clive Mortimore]

I have been operating the Exchange the past few days, the fat bald bloke is still not concentrating 100%. This is the major fault with the layout. There have been a few "What caused that to happen?" moments but i can never find out the problem as it doesn't repeat itself.

 

Back to the signalling, The two signals which i think would be called the inner homes are going to be based on a drawing from an old MRC showing a very nice LMS cantilever structure. I think it is a typical Westinghouse design as very similar ones appeared on the SR as well.  I don't seem to be able to find a LMS one.

 

Well today there was no running as I was occupied in building the first of the cantilever signals. Both signal heads will have theater route indicators added in due course.

First are a few shots of a Cravens DMU waiting for the signal to clear.

 

Now some of a Standard 4 which has come off shed and is about to shunt on to its train.  The signal head will be changed to a shut signal when I acquire the small LEDs and make the signal head.

 

Lastly the DMU is seen pass the signal as it goes on its journey to Doncater.

 

The whole structure is made from plastic card and microstrip.

 

[Clive Mortimore]

Well it is the 21st December, the winter solstice. So Happy New Year to all my Druid, Pagan and other friends who believe in the natural calendar.

Edited December 21, 2018 by Clive Mortimore

[Clive Mortimore]

Only six months to go. :sungum: :sungum:

 

[5BarVT]

I was occupied in building the first of the cantilever signals.

The signal head will be changed to a shunt signal when I acquire the small LEDs and make the signal head.

The whole structure is made from plastic card and microstrip.

V e r y nice indeed.

At first I was worried about the prototypical accuracy of a shunt signal on a cantilever: then I remembered The Stationmaster’s thread on Henley. (Sorry it’s the * key again.)

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_01_2013/post-6859-0-88971300-1358378219.jpg

There is a front view elsewhere in the thread, but from the back it is clearly just a shunt signal from the loop line.

Never say ‘never’ in signalling.

Paul.

[timbowilts]

Clive, if you pull up that close to the signal in a deisel the driver will get a cricked neck trying to read the signal! Better to stop half a coach length short.

 

Very nice modelling but I hope you’re going to weather it?

 

TimT

[Clive Mortimore]

V e r y nice indeed.

At first I was worried about the prototypical accuracy of a shunt signal on a cantilever: then I remembered The Stationmaster’s thread on Henley. (Sorry it’s the * key again.)

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_01_2013/post-6859-0-88971300-1358378219.jpg

There is a front view elsewhere in the thread, but from the back it is clearly just a shunt signal from the loop line.

Never say ‘never’ in signalling.

Paul.

Hi Paul

 

I am trying to portray an early application of colour light signals installed before the days of feathers and position signals. One because I like to be different, and two, more importantly, is it is something that is very rarely modelled and tends to be forgotten historically. The beauty of these early works was their variety. There were all sorts of oddities which today are not considered normal practice. It was from the experience of these early schemes that helped develop the more unified signalling we have today.

 

I wonder if anyone has modelled the LMS speed signalling?

 

Found a similar LMS signal at Glasgow St Enoch's.

Edited December 21, 2018 by Clive Mortimore

[Clive Mortimore]

Clive, if you pull up that close to the signal in a deisel the driver will get a cricked neck trying to read the signal! Better to stop half a coach length short.

 

Very nice modelling but I hope you’re going to weather it?

 

TimT

Hi Tim

 

Thanks. When I finish it it will be painted but what colour were cantilevers with colour lights painted in the 60s?

 

If it was a SR signal of the period an EMU driver could pull up that close as the signal head would have had "pigs ears". 

[Ray H]

Clive there was something similar to the Mirfield signalling on the DC lines between Watford Junction & Euston.

[Clive Mortimore]

Today has seen a short operating session. I have run DMUs of all lengths, including a parcels car with a GUV on the back. The DMU replacement has arrived causing panic as no one had informed the traction foreman and he doesn't have a fireman for the loco rostered only a driver for the DMU he thought was on the diagram.

 

There have been two 2 car units running at the same time, it was quite relaxing seeing them slowly meander around the room, after having a pair of six car units thundering around.

 

The last two trains of the session are nearly at their destination. The Liverpool to Grimsby express, hauled by a Sulzer Bo-Bo and a 3 car BRCW from Leeds.

 

Only a couple of operator errors tonight, and one mystery derailment, with the 3 car BRCW after I had wrote the above. :banghead:

Edited December 21, 2018 by Clive Mortimore

[Satan's Goldfish]

A thought occurs ref your signal gantry: is it mk1 catenary compatible if you decide to go that route in the future?...

[Clive Mortimore]

A thought occurs ref your signal gantry: is it mk1 catenary compatible if you decide to go that route in the future?...

Hi Matt

 

It isn't, one of the problems I have found is trying to get photos of Liverpool Lime Street after it was resignaled in 1947 but before they renewed the signals with more modern ones just before the wires went up 1959ish. On electrification they kept the 1947 miniature leverframe in the box.

[5BarVT]

what colour were cantilevers with colour lights painted in the 60s?

What colour would Sir like? Your options are white, grey, silver, metallic grey and black.

I’m making a big assumption that late 60s early 70s was no different to earlier times.

Late 60s early 70s I was familiar with Newcastle Central and the North Tyne loop. My recollection is that the gantries and brackets were a metallic grey: same colour as water cranes and steel bridges were painted. I have found photos of York which are metallic grey post and black platform. If this link works it should be a straight post signal at Manors with black base and lighter post.

https://goo.gl/images/y38UYs

Early 70s, LMR signals were white posts possibly with grey (not metallic finish) or black bases but I can’t remember how gantries and brackets were painted. I have found a photo of Crewe that looks as if the brackets there were grey not white.

 

My first professional experience was Reading and brackets were black base with ‘silver’ (aluminium based paint) legs much the same as WR metal post semaphore. My feeling is the ‘silver’ was lighter than the NE colour. I also remember a large bracket at the south end of Grantham Up Loop which memory says was white. I’ve found a photo of Doncaster (the Siemens installation, not the late 70s Westinghouse) and they are lattice brackets, much as you have built, painted white (originally) with black base. I suspect that reflects different policy of ER and NER.

 

So perhaps it depends which company did the signalling at your joint LNER LMS station!

Paul.

[5BarVT]

Clive there was something similar to the Mirfield signalling on the DC lines between Watford Junction & Euston.

Similar age, but I believe, completely different principles. Mirfield was unique in GB as it was speed signalling not route signalling. DC lines was also unusual (unique?) because it had automatic permissive working for passenger trains: they could stack nose to tail if there was a failure of some sort.

Paul.

[Clive Mortimore]

Similar age, but I believe, completely different principles. Mirfield was unique in GB as it was speed signalling not route signalling. DC lines was also unusual (unique?) because it had automatic permissive working for passenger trains: they could stack nose to tail if there was a failure of some sort.

Paul.

Hi Paul

 

I think Ray was on about the structures not the signalling method......I can't see me speed signalling or being permissive, far to old for any of that malarkey.

[5BarVT]

I think Ray was on about the structures not the signalling method......

Ah, yes. Hadn’t read it that way, but agree with you.

Paul.