Sheffield Exchange, Toy trains, music and fun!

[Stubby47]

Is that buffer centre, or buffer lowest edge, and from what datum - rail height?

And does FB or BH rail make a difference?

What if the rail is canted?

What if the wagon is loaded?

What if we never see Kansas again?

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

As I'm sure you know, Clive, the buffer heights should always be 3' 6" (to the nearest inch).

I agree John, but it would be nice if a draftsman was to include some dimensions so that scale can be checked. I have the Marsden and Fenn mainline diesel drawing book, not one dimension on any of the drawings, thankfully I have other drawings with the leading dimensions so I can check but if I didn't ??? For those with the book and the electric loco volume, they are printed at 4mm scale.

 

Back to buffer height, if the drawing is just out measuring the buffer height on an unmarked drawing might appear to be OK. How many of us can see 0.1mm when using a ruler on a poor photo copy drawing but that 10% over a long dimension is quite significantly out. 

 

I am very lucky as I have a vast collection of information which has taken me nearly 40 years to obtain, those newer to the hobby might not have additional information to check against an un-labeled drawing.

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, Stubby47 said:

Is that buffer centre, or buffer lowest edge, and from what datum - rail height?

And does FB or BH rail make a difference?

What if the rail is canted?

What if the wagon is loaded?

What if we never see Kansas again?

Hi Stu

 

Middle of the buffer from the highest point on the rail top on a unloaded wagon with new wheels and springs.

 

And just for you Kansas.

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Stu

 

Middle of the buffer from the highest point on the rail top on a unloaded wagon with new wheels and springs.

 

And just for you Kansas.

That looks like Kansas on a foggy day on my screen.

 

Try this:

 

 

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

every day my confusion grows

 

 

best ever use of an arpeggiator? 

[St Enodoc]

1 minute ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

best ever use of an arpeggiator? 

Not sure that that's legal in this part of the world.

[jazzer]

On 01/09/2019 at 09:13, Clive Mortimore said:

As the thread has drifted to a conversation about motorbikes, have I told you all about my adventures with my Honda C90?

 

We even have a video clip of you riding it !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1ay-NUybpM

[john new]

3 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I agree John, but it would be nice if a draftsman was to include some dimensions so that scale can be checked. I have the Marsden and Fenn mainline diesel drawing book, not one dimension on any of the drawings, thankfully I have other drawings with the leading dimensions so I can check but if I didn't ??? For those with the book and the electric loco volume, they are printed at 4mm scale.

 

Back to buffer height, if the drawing is just out measuring the buffer height on an unmarked drawing might appear to be OK. How many of us can see 0.1mm when using a ruler on a poor photo copy drawing but that 10% over a long dimension is quite significantly out. 

 

I am very lucky as I have a vast collection of information which has taken me nearly 40 years to obtain, those newer to the hobby might not have additional information to check against an un-labeled drawing.

 

Fully agreeing with Clive about the need for dimensions for reasons like the one I mentioned above - stretch when scanning/copying. With a digital scan, if there are dimensions, the scan can be validated very accurately on screen.

 

From practical experience I have found that the vertical and horizontal distortion can differ, especially when photocopying. Found out the hard way from trying to match some A3 map scans of large 25" OS maps to remake the greater composite - the distortion was not even and not even consistent though all the copied sheets were done on the same photocopier, at the same time, in one visit to the archive centre.

[St Enodoc]

35 minutes ago, john new said:

 

Fully agreeing with Clive about the need for dimensions for reasons like the one I mentioned above - stretch when scanning/copying. With a digital scan, if there are dimensions, the scan can be validated very accurately on screen.

 

From practical experience I have found that the vertical and horizontal distortion can differ, especially when photocopying. Found out the hard way from trying to match some A3 map scans of large 25" OS maps to remake the greater composite - the distortion was not even and not even consistent though all the copied sheets were done on the same photocopier, at the same time, in one visit to the archive centre.

There are very good reasons why engineering drawings invariably carry the legend DO NOT SCALE.

[TheSignalEngineer]

On 01/09/2019 at 01:22, Clive Mortimore said:

Last photo of my recent work. The bits to make the buffet.

 

I suppose anther question many might be asking "Why not use etched sides?" Well it is like this, I am a skinflint, and enjoy trying to make my own models.

Have a listen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhjH05NMB5Q

It's all part of the fun of playing trains. I've used the Airfix/Mainline/Dapol string to make a Non-corridor P2 all 3rd, Brake 3rd and Push-pull conversion. Mainline/Replica/Bachmann stuff led to a P1 Corridor 3rd. a small Hornby job resulted in a P3 Push-Pull. My Comet sided excursion set seems to be taking an age. Next up will be a Palethorpes 50ft van, LMS 57ft Ambulance Car to BG conversion and a Siphon G ex Ambulance Car. After that could be some Gresley open stock or a Maunsell Buffet Car conversion. 

A few weeks ago I bought a bag of bits from a club sales stand for a fiver. It had enough Airfix/Dapol stuff to built a 60ft Composite. Metal wheels added, flush glazed and painted to match some other Blood & Custard stuff it's just right for the layout 

Edited September 2, 2019 by TheSignalEngineer

[Clive Mortimore]

3 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

There are very good reasons why engineering drawings invariably carry the legend DO NOT SCALE.

When I worked for Marconi's their drawings were excellent. One that sticks in my mind was a simple rectangular cover  with four holes drilled in the corners for the screws. It was a generic drawing for several sizes of covers. It gave the part numbers for each size of cover and their dimensions. There were two notes with the drawing, all dimensions in millimeters, and to be made from 1/8th inch stock steel. 

 

Drawings drawn for railway modellers are normally designed to be scaled from but there is still a need for leading dimensions to check the drawing is correct.

[Clive Mortimore]

4 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

That looks like Kansas on a foggy day on my screen.

 

Try this:

 

 

Oh dear something happened to the photo I liked to I will try another. 

https://www.onlyinyourstate.com/states/kansas/

 

Edit, thank you for reminding me of how bad music was before the Ramones.

Edited September 2, 2019 by Clive Mortimore

[Clive Mortimore]

4 hours ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

every day my confusion grows

 

 

best ever use of an arpeggiator? 

Dear Doctor Confused

 

here is a ditty that should bring you back to reality.

 

[Clive Mortimore]

4 hours ago, jazzer said:

 

We even have a video clip of you riding it !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1ay-NUybpM

Oh Bu88er I have been rumbled.

[Gibbo675]

4 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

There are very good reasons why engineering drawings invariably carry the legend DO NOT SCALE.

Hi St Enodoc,

 

Fortunately the photographs I used for my Britten replica didn't have DO NOT SCALE written on them !

 

All measured off a large screen monitor using the zoom function of the viewing program/

 

Gibbo.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

9 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi St Enodoc,

 

Fortunately the photographs I used for my Britten replica didn't have DO NOT SCALE written on them 

 

Now the proud owner of the worlds smallest replica Britten bike...

 

[Satan's Goldfish]

Fancy trying something a little different next Clive? Simple combination of Triang mk1s and sausage Van's, the Sheffield exchange commuters would loath them!

 

[Clive Mortimore]

30 minutes ago, Satan's Goldfish said:

Fancy trying something a little different next Clive? Simple combination of Triang mk1s and sausage Van's, the Sheffield exchange commuters would loath them!

 

Hi Map

 

There is some potential in them.

[Sandhole]

On 05/06/2019 at 11:44, Clive Mortimore said:

Not trains, but it is practice with the new (well second hand) phone thingy.

 

 

Ye Gods, body armour!!! I now know how long it is since I last rode a horse!!!
I am not criticising, I am fully aware of what can happen, intimately!! I think it is realisation!!!
Is the grey a Welsh Cob? A handsome looking animal.

[Clive Mortimore]

18 minutes ago, Sandhole said:

Ye Gods, body armour!!! I now know how long it is since I last rode a horse!!!
I am not criticising, I am fully aware of what can happen, intimately!! I think it is realisation!!!
Is the grey a Welsh Cob? A handsome looking animal.

After Mrs M had a fall and hurt her back I made her buy the body protection.

 

No idea about the grey we believe he comes from Ireland. He is very naughty he keeps attacking Ferne the new 'orse.

[Andrew P]

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

After Mrs M had a fall and hurt her back I made her buy the body protection.

 

No idea about the grey we believe he comes from Ireland. He is very naughty he keeps attacking Ferne the new 'orse.

My Wife approves, very nice matey.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

I reckon even I could clear those jumps...

[TheSignalEngineer]

8 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

Next up will be a Palethorpes 50ft van, LMS 57ft Ambulance Car to BG conversion and a Siphon G ex Ambulance Car. After that could be some Gresley open stock or a Maunsell Buffet Car conversion. 

Just had another idea if I can find pictures or a drawing. A Mainline/Replica/Bachmann butchering to make a Period 1 all-door Brake Composite D1754 or D1755. Doubt we'll ever get one of those RTR.

[Clive Mortimore]

The LMS coaches are now at the waiting filler stage so I will put them to one side for a moment.

 

Back to LNER, this time a non gangway set of coaches. The Hertford Quad-art, I think I mentioned it before. Having realised that mixing kirk and Hornby LNER bits wasn't going to work I was stumped as what to do. I looked at my other Kirk coaches and have withdrawn a 8 compartment second, this is my diagram 105 coach. In fact I swapped a reasonable second hand one's bogies with those of a better built coach (by richard i) and that is now in the four car Doncaster local set.  After doing this I got out the Kirk sides I bought at Warley and started to mark them with my pencil, what a daft thing to be doing why not cut the parts out I thought. Now when I purchased these sides I didn't have my drawings with me and thought the compartments were "standard" sizes, well the diagrams 105 and 102 are but the two middle coaches are not. The composite (diagram 103) has two standard seconds but the four first are longer, and the other all second (diagram 104) has shorter compartments.  I had the following sides , 4 seconds, 2 first and 2 full brake. Now luckily the paneling on the van of the brake second (diagram 102) is the same as on the full brake and the two sets of double doors are the same distance. After building the corridor stock recently I didn't think the LNER had anything brake van wise the same.

The Brake Second diagram 102 , bits from the full bake sides and one of the seconds.

 

The composite diagram 103, using bits from a first side and two second sides.

 

The intermediate second diagram 104, using bits from the other first side with bits from other first and the two second sides used in making the composite.

 

The diagram 105 all second. Off its bogies and I have one end to rebuild for the articulating gubbins.

 

Once I got going working out the cuts became easy. Now to make the chassis, ends, assemble the sides and cut the roofs to size. 

It isn't really a set that would been seen in the Sheffield area, it is being built to compliment the GER EMUs I am building.

 

Tonight's song is quite an old one. Skating Polly covered it on their last LP, they copied the Nazareth version with distinctive the raw vocals of Dan McCafferty. Now the song is a folk song originally by Bonnie Dobson and sounds very different to how Skating Polly and Nazareth  interpreted it, neither do many other recordings of it. Where did Nazareth get their inspiration from, I had no idea until I found this version where Lulu turns this song around.

 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Clive Mortimore

[Clive Mortimore]

19 minutes ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

Just had another idea if I can find pictures or a drawing. A Mainline/Replica/Bachmann butchering to make a Period 1 all-door Brake Composite D1754 or D1755. Doubt we'll ever get one of those RTR.

Hi Eric

 

Do you have the Jenkinson and Essery three volume LMS coach books. In Volume 2 there are diagrams of both types and as normal they are of the compartment side, but there is a photo of the corridor side of a D1755. The D1754 diagram is quite clear and from it the corridor window positions should be possible to work out.

 

Period one stock was withdrawn (sadly) just before the period I am modelling, except the ex ambulance BGs, I have a BTK sat next to me and I have bookmarked Robert Carol's photos of one and John Turner's photos ready to convert it.