markw Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 On 31/12/2023 at 22:05, Ravel said: I wonder if we will ever see a rerun of these? The "inners" seemed to sell out very quickly, I am looking for a couple of sets of 5 of the later maritime variant but not really seeing many protoype rakes of just 2 outers, I'm not even sure that configuration was possible? Here is a 2 FGA set 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted January 2 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 2 On 31/12/2023 at 22:59, Dagworth said: I hope so, I still need another 40+ wagons! Andi Hi Andi Can't you buy outers and cut off the buffers etc? I can hear you shouting rude words at your screen. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRAILRAGE Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 On 31/12/2023 at 22:05, Ravel said: I wonder if we will ever see a rerun of these? The "inners" seemed to sell out very quickly, I am looking for a couple of sets of 5 of the later maritime variant but not really seeing many protoype rakes of just 2 outers, I'm not even sure that configuration was possible? It certainly was common to see just the outers mixed in with 'FSA/FTA sets down to Southampton from around 1998 to around 2005 with Freightliner 47's, 57's and 66's. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRAILRAGE Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 15 hours ago, Phil Bullock said: Cheers! Is anyone doing the open containers I wonder? There's some heavily modified Hornby models here. I have two of these to see what can be done. Its a great Sight with some incredible Modelling. EM Gauge Layouts, Models & Projects (emgauge70s.co.uk) Cheers railrage Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted January 3 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3 8 hours ago, TRAILRAGE said: There's some heavily modified Hornby models here. I have two of these to see what can be done. Its a great Sight with some incredible Modelling. EM Gauge Layouts, Models & Projects (emgauge70s.co.uk) Cheers railrage Yes Shenston Road is a cracking layout! One or two locos are duplicated on Abbotswood …. 😉 Will be interested to hear how you get on with any mods… 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted January 3 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3 I'm just going to keep plodding on with my 15 wagonsworth of Colin Craig kits! Mike. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arran Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 15 hours ago, adb968008 said: Just a note though C-Rail are “Freightliners Limited” (from early 1970’s) Bachmann are “Freightliner” (1960’s onwards) HI All The Freightliners Ltd one was built in 1967 https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brfreightlinercontainer so presumably entered service then . The OCL was around then also but could be as early as 65 https://www.northwalshamheritage.org.uk/crane-fruehauf/ this is what the Model is based on and was measured up in a yard near Coatbridge by myself . Hope this helps Regards Arran =C=Rail= 8 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted January 3 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3 2 minutes ago, arran said: HI All The Freightliners Ltd one was built in 1967 https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brfreightlinercontainer so presumably entered service then . The OCL was around then also but could be as early as 65 https://www.northwalshamheritage.org.uk/crane-fruehauf/ this is what the Model is based on and was measured up in a yard near Coatbridge by myself . Hope this helps Regards Arran =C=Rail= Hi Arran , am I right in thinking the Manchester liners one is early 70s? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arran Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 8 minutes ago, russ p said: Hi Arran , am I right in thinking the Manchester liners one is early 70s? HI The Manchester liners one of this type would be mid 60s onwards as well , once the 70s came along ribbed sides started to become the norm in new construction . Regards Arran 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted January 3 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, arran said: HI The Manchester liners one of this type would be mid 60s onwards as well , once the 70s came along ribbed sides started to become the norm in new construction . Regards Arran Thanks Arran . Is the livery 60s ? I was thinking 60s livery had the words Manchester liners on them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted January 3 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3 The ML one is the ribbed type, not the earlier style. Here are some I picked up at Warley: 3 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Mid 1960s Manchester Liners containers were ribbed, grey livery with the ML flag logo on a black panel on the side. Some of these were later repainted in red with the full ML lettering. The 'classic' aluminium smooth-sided ML containers were introduced from 1968. From around 1969/70 there were more ribbed-side steel boxes, and the earliest ones had full ML lettering. At this stage, all the 20' ML boxes were 8' high, and were numbered in ML's own non-standard series. This photo dated December 1972 shows a delivery of new steel containers in full ML livery. They have two vertical logo panels. The 20'x8'6" high box with yellow roof dates from around 1973 or later. I have chapter and verse on the history of ML containers if required... Mol 1 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Crepello Posted January 3 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 3 Maybe (hopefully!) Bachmann are putting their efforts into doing N-gauge versions too. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted January 3 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3 I'm grateful to C-Rail for the early containers and liveries they've now done. I wonder if any others are feasible - eg Containerway ones? I don't know if these could be done using the existing moulds but they would add some extra variety to be mixed in with early Freightliner containers. I've done some CTi ones using the C-Rail kits and decals. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Cti is a very good choice. Other early container names seen in the UK included Seawheel, Danzas, ICS, Contrans, Interpool, SNCF/CNC, Belgian Line, United States Lines. Mol 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted January 3 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3 (edited) I’m sure someone will correct me if wrong but aiui Freightliners Limited was founded on Jan 1st 1969 as part of the National Freight Company, transferred from British Railways as part of the Transport Act 1968. Its the birth of what is Freightliner today, owned by G&W. The container might be 1967, but the “Freightliners Limited” branding is from 1969 (1970’s). Freightliner and Freightliners Limited would be seen side by side throughout the 1970’s, and no doubt some repaints. But only later 1969 and in the 1970’s would be my guess. fwiw Hornby introduced “Freightliners Limited” in 1970, having previously offered “Freightliners” In the 1960’s. Regardless these are fantastic model containers. Edited January 3 by adb968008 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arran Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 58 minutes ago, adb968008 said: I’m sure someone will correct me if wrong but aiui Freightliners Limited was founded on Jan 1st 1969 as part of the National Freight Company, transferred from British Railways as part of the Transport Act 1968. Its the birth of what is Freightliner today, owned by G&W. The container might be 1967, but the “Freightliners Limited” branding is from 1969 (1970’s). Freightliner and Freightliners Limited would be seen side by side throughout the 1970’s, and no doubt some repaints. But only later 1969 in the 60’s would be my guess. fwiw Hornby introduced “Freightliners Limited” in 1970, having previously offered “Freightliners” In the 1960’s. Regardless these are fantastic model containers. HI All As far i can see its 1967 as Per Paul Bartletts site https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brfreightlinercontainer this is what we took this livery from with help from Paul. I've seen this Freightliner versus Freightliners Ltd discussion before and if you look the Ltd containers are all ISO so can go deep sea , i was told it was always freightliners ltd . Coco Cola don't have Ltd on the front of their cans . One other thing is Freightliner in the USA make trucks so i wonder if it was to make things clearer . A definitive answer to this would be good but as of yet its still not nailed down. Regards arran 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arran Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 HI All Freightliners LTD was formed in 68 right enough. I suppose they might have done a repaint Regards Arran 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markw Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Where did this 1967 date come from? The life and times 'Freightliner' has Lot 3693 listed as built in 1969. There are a lot of typos in the number ranges beginning with 7 for the L type containers, but the build dates all look correct. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravel Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 21 hours ago, TRAILRAGE said: It certainly was common to see just the outers mixed in with 'FSA/FTA sets down to Southampton from around 1998 to around 2005 with Freightliner 47's, 57's and 66's. Ah superb!! That's the timeline I am collecting for ! Thank you! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markw Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 19 hours ago, Barry Ten said: I'm grateful to C-Rail for the early containers and liveries they've now done. I wonder if any others are feasible - eg Containerway ones? I don't know if these could be done using the existing moulds but they would add some extra variety to be mixed in with early Freightliner containers. I've done some CTi ones using the C-Rail kits and decals. Containerway had 20' and 30' containers to the same design as freightliner so this is a livery Bachmann could do on their existing models. https://archive.commercialmotor.com/article/15th-september-1967/64/recruits-for-the-container-bandwagon They also had 20' x 8' flush sided insulated containers 4 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 19 hours ago, arran said: HI All As far i can see its 1967 as Per Paul Bartletts site https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brfreightlinercontainer this is what we took this livery from with help from Paul. I've seen this Freightliner versus Freightliners Ltd discussion before and if you look the Ltd containers are all ISO so can go deep sea , i was told it was always freightliners ltd . Coco Cola don't have Ltd on the front of their cans . One other thing is Freightliner in the USA make trucks so i wonder if it was to make things clearer . A definitive answer to this would be good but as of yet its still not nailed down. Regards arran My (rather old) friend Roger Silsbury is the expert on the early Freightliners history. OK, I put my hands up a typo or misreading of the date of lot 3693. All my details on the scans need checking, I did 20 or 30K of them when coming home from work (and for 100 days a year I was either away or home after 21.00). It is quite possible the 1967 was working from an order date. I am grateful for the information on when "Freightliner Limited" became the title. I couldn't find it in Roger's book, nor clearly on Wikipedia but I was concerned it wasn't 1967 - but also had assumed the container could have been repainted. Perhaps someone could enter it on Wikipedia if they have a clear reference. I now consider my photo https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brfreightlinercontainer is of it in original 1969 condition. So apologies to Arran for the small mistake [no one gave a ..... when posting these scans 20 years ago] Does suggest that the alternative earlier Freightliner livery could be produced on this model. Now what is needed is the type M curtainsided container https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brfreightliner/e3d898f2f introduced in 1966 and pre-dating the now universal York curtain side trailers. Paul 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 21 hours ago, Mol_PMB said: Cti is a very good choice. Other early container names seen in the UK included Seawheel, Danzas, ICS, Contrans, Interpool, SNCF/CNC, Belgian Line, United States Lines. Mol CNC/SNCF ran a very mixed fleet of non[ISO boxes until the Train Ferry ceased operation in Autumn 1995. They brought pet food from a site near Orleans in a mixture of caisse-mobiles and Ferrywagons as far as Dunkerque, where the boxes were transhipped to road.for the journey to the Midlands 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 One of the SNCF / CNC side door containers can be seen here: http://sutherland.davenportstation.org.uk/ws-173/ws173-06.JPG This is one of several J W Sutherland photos of Trafford Park container terminal in 1971 with a great array of early containers, all on this page: J.W.Sutherland slides: Box no. ws-173 (davenportstation.org.uk) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted January 4 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4 (edited) If it helps on dating this, The Hansard records, on June 11th 1968 why Freightliners Limited is to be created… Effectively NFC owns the containers & road vehicles, BR provides the rail access and vehicles. The two combined have large share ownership to ensure its in both interests to develop it, and open it to the wider market. https://hansard.parliament.uk/Lords/1968-06-11/debates/132a227f-fffa-4db9-ab4a-4d997f7c2593/TransportBill Quote The Freight Corporation will be a State undertaking responsible to the Minister, in the same way as the Railways Board and the Docks Board are to-day. The Corporation will operate mainly through subsidiaries. There will be the subsidiary road haulage companies, which will be taken over from the Transport Holding Company, and the Bill provides for the creation by the Railways Board of two new subsidiary companies, one for the sundries service and one for the freightliner business, which will be transferred to the Corporation.There has been criticism of the proposal to make the Freight Corporation responsible for the marketing and development of the freightliner network. But we believe it is right to go ahead if the full potential of the concept is to be exploited because the Freight Corporation, with its ancillary services and its wider commercial contacts, will be better placed to press the development of the freightliners. Moreover, the Corporation will have every incentive, once it has invested in the new freightliner service, to see that its use is maximised. The freightliner service will be available, as it is now, on fair terms to private hauliers, as well as to all the subsidiaries of the Freight Corporation itself, and the Government attach the greatest importance to this in maximising the economic potential of the container concept.But we fully recognise that British Rail should continue to have a substantial stake in this new technique which they have fostered and developed. For they will continue to provide the track and haulage for the freightliner trains, while the Corporation will own the containers, the road vehicles, the depots and their equipment. The Bill, therefore, provides for the Railways Board to have a 49 per cent. stake in the company which will run the freightliners and an appropriate number of seats on the new Board. Thus British Rail will have no less an interest than the National Freight Corporation in securing the maximum economic development of the freightliners. The Act got royal assent on 25th October 1968, and came into force 1st January 1969. The Creation of Freightliners Ltd, and branding of containers would not have happened before 25th October 1968… as it was not yet law, but could happen anytime after once the company was incorporated and the assets pooled into it. dated here.. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/73/enacted?view=plain Also this trademark legal dispute dates Freightliner Limited to 1968, and first use of the Freightliner brand in 1962. https://www.ipo.gov.uk/t-challenge-decision-results/o03404.pdf The earliest reference to “British Rail Freightliners limited” is in Hansard in 14th February 1969. https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/1969-02-14/debates/ca6f7808-e1e3-4cda-9ea1-c4e55b8e7f81/WrittenAnswers Edited January 4 by adb968008 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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