59003 Coming Home

[jollysmart]

20 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

 

Exactly. Not particularly bothered about the units but I dread to think of the damage to the tunnel lining by pulling it out like something out of the dukes of hazzard.

 

I don't know the area and I have only seen the videos but it did appear that there was much straighter pull from the other line as the carriage was resting on the side of the tunnel that the loco was pulling against, effectively pivoting the coach,  whereas from the other line it was  more likely to not damage the wall. 

 

[Titan]

18 minutes ago, Mike_Walker said:

Don't know what, if any, damage was done to 59003 but that to the track is spectacular!

 

 

I know that you posted this as a joke,  but I think there may be some that don't realise it as you have not presented it as such, which could provoke adverse comments...

[AY Mod]

3 hours ago, Mike_Walker said:

Don't know what, if any, damage was done to 59003 but that to the track is spectacular!

 

 

I saw that tagged onto the end of one of the Facebook vids; someone's being a bit naughty as it's not from the right country let alone the right location.

[Mike_Walker]

Apologies - I've clearly been had!

[phil-b259]

20 hours ago, Bucoops said:

At the very least it probably needs tyre turning after that crazy way of trying to get the coach out. I wonder who signed off on the method statement and risk assessment.

 

And the alternative is?

 

The coaches were at a precarious angle and as such H&S rules are most certainly not going to let people clamber all over them trying to either shore them up, extract them nicely or take gas axe to them to chop them into small bits.

 

Dragging them out of the confined space therefore probably represented the only practical way of doing it - the only question is whether you use a loco or a piece of building site plant like a bulldozer to do it.

 

If the loco needs new or turned tyres as a result of its efforts then thats quite frankly going to peanuts compared to the huge costs of the road cranes, low loaders etc to take the DMU vehicles away once they have been extracted from the tunnel plus the substantial cost of replacing the destroyed track and signalling equipment.

[Davexoc]

12 hours ago, Titan said:

 

No one ever heard of a winch?  I would expect that it would be part of the standard kit of a traditional break down train, and of course you need something quite substantial to anchor it to, but there is far greater control and you can get as much pulling power as you need with sufficient pulley blocks. I believe this was the method used to recover 50041 when it ended up on its side under Bishops Bridge near Paddington, and had to be dragged out before it could be lifted.

 

Hauser it was I believe, I watched some of it from the top of the BR telephone exchange. As it is steel wire ropes through pulleys, the required effort is much less, but no-one would be anywhere near, as if a rope breaks it would whip and cut anything in its way in half. They used a mere class 47 and a bit of grease on the rails....

[newbryford]

On 07/11/2021 at 22:49, John M Upton said:

And indeed the guys crossing the line in front of the loco as it is heaving away at full chat were not exactly wise either....

 

The telephoto reduces the distance. The guys crossing the line must be a good 200 feet away from the loco.

It's not as if the 59 has the acceleration of a F1 car.

[Pandora]

The orange sling, I think it rated for 10 long tons,  when Class 50  Bulwark derailed at Paddington in the 1980s and was one one side under the main bridge,  was it dragged out by the same method, and possibly by a pair of 47s

Edited November 9, 2021 by Pandora

[brianthesnail96]

This sort of thing would perhaps have been a more controlled method of extraction- I saw this referenced somewhere on Facebook, this is another Facebook link but you should be able to view without signing in/ up. 

 

Kelbus gear in use at Southall

 

And a another picture of it in use (and another "bring out the big guns" loco, to try and make some very tenuous link to 59 003) elsewhere on RMWeb 

 

How to wake up a 37 that's having a lie down

 

 

 

[stewartingram]

Our local Fire Brigade has inflatable cushions. Would one of these used between the tunnel wall and the coach, righted the vehicle somewhat, allowing an easier drag?

 

Stewart

[Titan]

24 minutes ago, stewartingram said:

Our local Fire Brigade has inflatable cushions. Would one of these used between the tunnel wall and the coach, righted the vehicle somewhat, allowing an easier drag?

 

Stewart

It was well and truly wedged, with no room for any movement either way, hence why it took so much force to drag it out.  

[cctransuk]

27 minutes ago, Titan said:

It was well and truly wedged, with no room for any movement either way, hence why it took so much force to drag it out.  

 

It does not surprise me at all that two powerful trains, that had tried to enter the tunnel at the same time, had become wedged!

 

CJI.

[TravisM]

From what I've read on here and other sites, the SWR 159 went past the signal protecting the junction, which was at red and struck the GWR 158's as they were entering the tunnel.  The forward momentum pushed both trains forward and "wedged" themselves into the tunnel as the coaches derailed and toppled over.

 

On further reading, it would appear that the driver of the SWR 159 applied the brakes but they "locked up" and the whole train slid past the signal and into the GWR service.  I'd just like to point out that I used to travel on that route numerous times when I lived in Andover and that section of line between Basingstoke and Salisbury was "treacherous" during leaf fall season. It wasn't uncommon to hear the train slowing down then go silent as the wheels locked up.  I remember being on a 9 car set heading west and when the driver applied the brakes to stop at Overton, the whole lot slid straight through, and didn't stop until a 3 car length past the station.

[woodenhead]

52 minutes ago, jools1959 said:

From what I've read on here and other sites, the SWR 159 went past the signal protecting the junction, which was at red and struck the GWR 158's as they were entering the tunnel.  The forward momentum pushed both trains forward and "wedged" themselves into the tunnel as the coaches derailed and toppled over.

 

On further reading, it would appear that the driver of the SWR 159 applied the brakes but they "locked up" and the whole train slid past the signal and into the GWR service.  I'd just like to point out that I used to travel on that route numerous times when I lived in Andover and that section of line between Basingstoke and Salisbury was "treacherous" during leaf fall season. It wasn't uncommon to hear the train slowing down then go silent as the wheels locked up.  I remember being on a 9 car set heading west and when the driver applied the brakes to stop at Overton, the whole lot slid straight through, and didn't stop until a 3 car length past the station.

Just so it is clear, the driver of the SWR 159 applied the brakes as he should to bring the train to a stop at the red signal, after several seconds on realising the train was not slowing he applied the emergency brake, several seconds later the ATP applied the emergency brake too but the train continued forward where it collided with the other train which was moving, both derailed and continued into the mouth of the tunnel.  It has been made very clear that the driver acted as he should and the RAIB will be looking at other factors that may have contributed to the accident.

[Mike_Walker]

Just to clarify.  SWR trains do not have ATP only GWR 80x and most Chiltern units are so fitted.  You are thinking of TPWS which is fitted system wide.

 

Whilst TPWS would have attempted to make an emergency brake demand on passing SY31 at danger it would have had no effect as the driver had already done so.  Once an emergency brake application has been made nothing more can be done and the driver effectively becomes a passenger on his own train.

[woodenhead]

@Mike_Walker Apologies yes, TPWS, got my systems mixed up, I was posting to clarify that very early on the RAIB released enough detail to show the driver had acted appropriately in the accident.