BITTON

[Andrew P]

Afternoon Guys, just switched on for the day and wow, you lot have jumped in again and provided a mix of information and advice,

so again its a big Thank You.

 

Bitton has had this sort of support from Day 1, (10th August 2014) and once again I'm amazed that I have 72 followers and still no Trains running.

 

The Ballast issue is a great discussion and as I've always been a Code 100 / Cork / PVA merchant this again is a total departure and new learning curve.

 

You have all had various experiences with both good and bad results from Copydex and so thanks for posting your experiences here for all to read.

 

Cav, made a good point about Loco noise, but IMHO its the drumming that I want to reduce, not the sound of steel wheels over rail joints etc.

 

The debate on the double sided tape has warned me off that idea, even though I had thought about it for under the points as, as Don pointed (sorry about that pun) out, the Copper Clad sleepers wont try to move.

 

Jason has also mad another very good point, (sorry again), and that is, that there is NO HURRY, to get it all done, if it takes 6 Months to do the 25' scenic section then so be it, PROVIDING that the end result is worth the effort.

 

The Copydex that I ordered will be here in the next couple of Days, so I can start to experiment. It will be used to lay the foam, and then the track will be laid onto that once I have the Ballast shoulders cut away. 

 

Thanks all again, and I can now add this section to the index.

 

Cheers again one and all.

[Jason T]

Glue your track down and you can them test everything is working as it should. When happy, you can then spray, paint and weather it and finally ballast, bit by bit. And the beauty is that you don't need the track to be ballasted in order to run / play trains, even ballasting bit by bit.

[Andrew P]

Glue your track down and you can them test everything is working as it should. When happy, you can then spray, paint and weather it and finally ballast, bit by bit. And the beauty is that you don't need the track to be ballasted in order to run / play trains, even ballasting bit by bit.

Thick I know, and a stupid question, but what did you use to STICK your track down with, was that some Copydex carefully put down?

[2ManySpams]

Thick I know, and a stupid question, but what did you use to STICK your track down with, was that some Copydex carefully put down?

I've some spare 6" nails - any use?

[Andrew P]

I've some spare 6" nails - any use?

Cheers Chris, I used my last lot up on Fiddlers Yard, I've only got 4 inchers left.

[Andrew P]

I know I said yesterday that Lee was coming up today to do another couple of little jobs, but he has the Dredded Lurgie so I've told him to stay away at the moment.

 

In fairness he's got a bad throat and I've still got a cough  we have abandon the build this week.

 

I hope to do a bit more tomorrow though.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Andrew P

[2ManySpams]

Cheers Chris, I used my last lot up on Fiddlers Yard, I've only got 4 inchers left.

If you need them just head for the glow 8 miles to your South East...

[Alister_G]

I always knew Markfield was a nuclear accident - there's no other explanation...

[Brian D]

Just a quick question Andy - are you putting any cant into your main line curves and, if so, how will you achieve it.  I only ask because it is such a highly visible feature of the real full size railway and I've rarely seen it modeled.  I was toying with the idea of incorporating cant into the curves on my new layout.

Regards,

Brian.

[Donw]

We could spend a few pages on degrees of cant, cant gradient, cant deficientcy and cant bother.

 

In practice it can be a little difficult adding it on curves with turnouts particularly on a flat baseboard. You could add a little on the sharper curves at the end using thin card under the outer ends of the sleepers.

Don

[Ray H]

Put magnets under the track, use steel rails and iron filings for ballast. No glue needed and the ballast goes brown without weathering. Simples.

[Jason T]

I glued the track down with neat Copydex Andy, then left weights on it until dry. If there were any errant bits of glue left over (e.g. On sleepers), I carefully removed it with a scalpel.

[Clive Mortimore]

Mr Peters

 

Do as young Jason says.

Fix your track and get it working.

Paint it, clear paint away from point blades, rail tops etc. get it working.

Ballast, clear glue from moving parts of points, get it working.

Weather the track and ballast, clear paint away from point blades rail tops etc. get it working. 

 

Only the lucky get away with doing glue, track and ballast before the glue has dried. Most of us need to adjust something either due to running problems or electrical faults that means working on the track or even lifting it.

 

AND DO NOT RUSH THINGS!!!!!!!

[Andrew P]

Just a quick question Andy - are you putting any cant into your main line curves and, if so, how will you achieve it.  I only ask because it is such a highly visible feature of the real full size railway and I've rarely seen it modeled.  I was toying with the idea of incorporating cant into the curves on my new layout.

Regards,

Brian.

 

We could spend a few pages on degrees of cant, cant gradient, cant deficientcy and cant bother.

 

In practice it can be a little difficult adding it on curves with turnouts particularly on a flat baseboard. You could add a little on the sharper curves at the end using thin card under the outer ends of the sleepers.

Don

Evening Brian and Don, I hope to put a slight cant at either end, I have done it on Layouts before and just recently I have done it on our Clubs Layout, with as Don says, some thin card.

 

 

I will be doing it from the about 6 inches past the point that Jason has built at the Warmley end, and from the end of the Platform across the Embankment in front of the door into the Storage Yard at that end. it wont be massive but just enough to show on the coaches.

[Ray H]

I'll tell you a funny story about cant and a club layout if I may be permitted to do so.

 

The small group that I'm a member of - someone other than RMweb has to have me - has access to a large 7mm layout that is basically a double track oval on the level with a single track branch that runs around the outside of the main line. We added an incline at one end of the oval to lift the branch a few inches higher than the main lines (and have a compensating slope at the other end to drop it back down again).

 

We've struggled for a while with even fairly short freights to get them to ascend the incline which starts part way around an 8ft radius curve. As a result we decided that we'd take advantage of the DCC facility that we've been able to incorporate on the branch and use a banker.

 

One of the O gauge points that I built last week was the point for the banker's siding, the other was to go a little further round the curve and slightly up the incline to allow us to add some sidings in the corner of the layout. The position for the point for the banker's siding was restricted and we had to move it closer to the start of the incline than we wanted and feared the back of the freight might not clear the point to allow the banker out of the siding.

 

We'd extended the baseboard to accommodate both lots of sidings and laid plain track pending the arrival of the points. We packed the outer rail slightly to give it a small degree of cant but the same wee freight train still struggled to climb the bank!

 

I fitted the points last Thursday and bodged the wiring so that we could at least run round the branch until the points were permanently wired in. We adjusted the cant on the outer rail slightly to fit the new arrangement.

 

Someone turned up with a 9F and wanted a train to put behind it. We attached the wagons that were the branch freight and added a further set to double the length. The 9F had no trouble on the flat but it is DC only so can't work on the branch.

 

There was no 9F on Friday so the usual branch 2-6-2T was put on the train. After a few problems getting it to run on DC we put it back on the DCC part of the layout and coupled it to this now lengthened freight. We set another loco off to follow the train and act as banker.

 

The banker never caught the freight! Something we've done seems to have resolved the problem. However, we'll still use the banker just for the fun of it!

 

Sorry for the long winded explanation and apologies for nicking Andy's thread yet again.

[PeterBB]

Copydex - does it still smell of fish?

Agree with both comments - yes, it does.  Never thought to use it on track but it was fantastic in sticking carpet oddments together on the floor - I'm not up to Andy's flooring standards - polystyrene base - but it still feels warm underfoot.

Peter

[PeterBB]

Evening Brian and Don, I hope to put a slight cant at either end, I have done it on Layouts before and just recently I have done it on our Clubs Layout, with as Don says, some thin card.

Coopers Dale Apr 2014 042.JPG

 

Easter Open Weekend 2014 016.JPG

 

I will be doing it from the about 6 inches past the point that Jason has built at the Warmley end, and from the end of the Platform across the Embankment in front of the door into the Storage Yard at that end. it wont be massive but just enough to show on the coaches.

 Hi Guys,

 

The cant worked well over the Mince Pie weekend ... just a little external 'lift' ... but it looked good.

 

Peter

[Andrew P]

Agree with both comments - yes, it does.  Never thought to use it on track but it was fantastic in sticking carpet oddments together on the floor - I'm not up to Andy's flooring standards - polystyrene base - but it still feels warm underfoot.

Peter

 

 Hi Guys,

 

The cant worked well over the Mince Pie weekend ... just a little external 'lift' ... but it looked good.

 

Peter

Morning Peter and Gang, Thanks for your nice comments about the Trains running over our open weekend, I didn't get a proper chance to get upstairs this year to have a PLAY or watch them running.

 

Re the flooring, as most of you know, I have a layer of Tounge and Grove, then 2 inches of Polystyrene, then 3/4 Ply, I will then have the Halfords Rubber Flooring down once all the carpentry is completed, you need warm feet, and soft under foot is a BONUS. 

[Jock67B]

Morning Andy,

I clearly remember the G&SWR branch line to Darvel, where it left the Nith Valley main line and curved past Hurlford MPD and mineral sidings to Barleith Halt and onwards. It had a degree of 'super elevation' and I recall my father explaining to me 'why'! An early Physics lesson!! It is possible that, if I ever get round to finishing a layout of the MPD, that a narrow 'branch' board could be attached to the front with open framing as twisting the ply trackbed would seem to be a good way of introducing a degree of 'cant'.

Keep ticking along mate,

Kind regards,

Jock.

Edited because of bl**dy spell checker!

Edited December 16, 2014 by Jock67B

[67A]

I'll tell you a funny story about cant and a club layout if I may be permitted to do so.

 

The small group that I'm a member of - someone other than RMweb has to have me - has access to a large 7mm layout that is basically a double track oval on the level with a single track branch that runs around the outside of the main line. We added an incline at one end of the oval to lift the branch a few inches higher than the main lines (and have a compensating slope at the other end to drop it back down again).

 

We've struggled for a while with even fairly short freights to get them to ascend the incline which starts part way around an 8ft radius curve. As a result we decided that we'd take advantage of the DCC facility that we've been able to incorporate on the branch and use a banker.

 

One of the O gauge points that I built last week was the point for the banker's siding, the other was to go a little further round the curve and slightly up the incline to allow us to add some sidings in the corner of the layout. The position for the point for the banker's siding was restricted and we had to move it closer to the start of the incline than we wanted and feared the back of the freight might not clear the point to allow the banker out of the siding.

 

We'd extended the baseboard to accommodate both lots of sidings and laid plain track pending the arrival of the points. We packed the outer rail slightly to give it a small degree of cant but the same wee freight train still struggled to climb the bank!

 

I fitted the points last Thursday and bodged the wiring so that we could at least run round the branch until the points were permanently wired in. We adjusted the cant on the outer rail slightly to fit the new arrangement.

 

Someone turned up with a 9F and wanted a train to put behind it. We attached the wagons that were the branch freight and added a further set to double the length. The 9F had no trouble on the flat but it is DC only so can't work on the branch.

 

There was no 9F on Friday so the usual branch 2-6-2T was put on the train. After a few problems getting it to run on DC we put it back on the DCC part of the layout and coupled it to this now lengthened freight. We set another loco off to follow the train and act as banker.

 

The banker never caught the freight! Something we've done seems to have resolved the problem. However, we'll still use the banker just for the fun of it!

 

Sorry for the long winded explanation and apologies for nicking Andy's thread yet again.

Hi Ray,

 

Could you have had a dry solder joint on one of the rails allowing say 9v instead of 12v or 21v instead of 24v whichever is the case? And now things have been reconnected the power has increased, its happened to me!

[67A]

Morning Andy,

I clearly remember the G&SWR branch line to Darvel, where it left the Nith Valley main line and curved past Hurlford MPD and mineral sidings to Barleith Halt and onwards. It had a degree of 'super elevation' and I recall my father explaining to me 'why'! An early Physics lesson!! It is possible that, if I ever get round to finishing a layout of the MPD, that a narrow 'branch' board could be attached to the front with open framing as twisting the ply trackbed would seem to be a good way of introducing a degree of 'cant'.

Keep ticking along mate,

Kind regards,

Jock.

Edited because of bl**dy spell checker!

Hi Jock

 

That is exactly what I did on Dent!

[Andrew P]

Hi Jock

 

That is exactly what I did on Dent!

Agh but surly, the ground should be level with the outer rail having a deeper Ballast shoulder as it been lifted from the ground to form the cant.

[Jeff Smith]

Agh but surly, the ground should be level with the outer rail having a deeper Ballast shoulder as it been lifted from the ground to form the cant.

And, with multiple tracks they should all be level, ie all the inner rails at the same height, and all the outer rails at the same elevated height.....

[Andrew P]

And, with multiple tracks they should all be level, ie all the inner rails at the same height, and all the outer rails at the same elevated height.....

Correct Jeff, as per my photo from our Club Layout above.

 

Thanks for your input.

[Andrew P]

Still waiting for the delivery man to arrive, I have a 2 Tone Green Heljan 47 SORRY Type 4 coming today, I know, I sold my Bachmann Factory Sound fitted one to Lee a few weeks back, but its a long story with this one.

 

I hope to do some Chip fitting later this week as I have a Hall, Class 22, Class 35 (Hymeck), 7F and a Prairie to catch up with.

 

I also hope to make a start on the last pair of points on Thursday as I'm out tomorrow.