Bachmann announce 0-6-2T L&NWR Webb Coal Tank

[Penlan]

In the book 'Central Wales Line' by A. Doughty,

there are no CT's allocated at Swansea in 1911 out of 28 loco's mentioned.

However, in the 1917 listing there are 9 CT's allocated to Swansea out of 27 loco's on shed. 

The CT's seem to have replaced some of the 0-6-0's (18" and DX) at Swansea,

16 in 1911, 8 in 1917, though all E & O. E.

 

The Penclawdd photo appeared on a 'Archive' magazine cover recently, No 50,

but described as an un-identified 2-4-2T. 
The related article is ' The LNWR's Motor-Fitted Trains and Webb 4' 6" Tank Engines'.  4' 6" as in 2-4-2T's.

I thought the article missed the brief, but perhaps I was looking for something else at the time.

- The Penclawdd photo is not of a Motor-Fitted train, a loco fitted with Auto-gear, or a 2-4-2T.

Edited April 23, 2017 by Penlan

[Ian Hargrave]

Hi they worked out of Swansea Victoria to Pontaddulais and Llandebie but went early when more modern types arrived.

I'm sure they did.But pre-1948 or even pre-war. Huw Daniel's shots of the line in the late40's do not feature the CT's.

[Ian Hargrave]

From the evidence I have they worked passenger into Newport from Tredegar until the mid 50s. They worked freight down the rhymney to Cardiff. The Barry island excursions were solely super Ds. Freight to Newport and Hereford was also super Ds. The coal tanks did haul some northern excursions but only to and from Abergavenny junction where a main line engine took the train on. They were used as pilots at new street in Birmingham I believe.

Don't know about Swansea allocations though have created a partial record of Tredegar and Abergavenny allocations from 1930s monthly newsletters of the RCTS and information shared with me by Harold Walkely who was at Aber shed in the 50s.

Regards.

Thanks for this.What I do find really interesting is the working to Newport .Can't recollect this during the 50's.Any further information or photos on these workings ?

[johnd]

On page 17 of the book "Portrait of the Central Wales Line, Martin Smith"  shows a pair of Coal Tanks at LLandrindod Wells Station taken before 1909 and in the caption it states that it says the train is a Euston Express !

Page 21 Shows one in Swansea Victoria , early 1950's ( 58880 ).

Page 53 Swansea Victoria again June 1938 no 7807 on a Pontardulais train

 

If your interested in the line I can recommend the book , think the pictures I like the most is 3 coaches forming a Shrewsbury-Swansea train behind Jubilee 45577 BENGAL in June 1964

 

For those interested in the class have a look at the following web site http://brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=class&id=406201&type=S&page=fleet

Edited April 23, 2017 by johnd

[Ian Hargrave]

On page 17 of the book "Portrait of the Central Wales Line, Martin Smith"  shows a pair of Coal Tanks at LLandrindod Wells Station taken before 1909 and in the caption it states that it says the train is a Euston Express !

Page 21 Shows one in Swansea Victoria , early 1950's ( 58880 ).

Page 53 Swansea Victoria again June 1938 no 7807 on a Pontardulais train

 

If your interested in the line I can recommend the book , think the pictures I like the most is 3 coaches forming a Shrewsbury-Swansea train behind Jubilee 45577 BENGAL in June 1964

 

For those interested in the class have a look at the following web site http://brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=class&id=406201&type=S&page=fleet

Many thanks.We forget just how popular these Welsh spa towns once were so I am unsurprised at that.The one I find most interesting is the 50's record at Swansea Victoria. With regard to the Jubilees,they were displaced from Bristol Barrow Road when their work was taken by diesels on the Bristol-Birmingham line and handed on to Shrewsbury.I think the only work for them then was on the Central Wales line to Swansea where they lasted until withdrawal/line closure.A regular "express" working was the Swansea-York Mail .

[1BCamden]

Andy,

Thanks for starting this thread, really great transfer of information (knowledge) on the subject, and thanks for the photos comparing both the real thing and the model.
Those coupling rods look huge against the prototype, definitely a job for LRM or Brassmasters, the RTR is begging for an upgrade around the hand rails, steps, and rods

Edited April 25, 2017 by 1BCamden

[Ian Hargrave]

I'm sure they did.But pre-1948 or even pre-war. Huw Daniel's shots of the line in the late40's do not feature the CT's.

Just shows how wrong that assumption is.No fewer than 10 allocated to Paxton Street until mid 1954.They must have been camera shy.My thanks to John d

Edited April 23, 2017 by Ian Hargrave

[Penlan]

On page 17 of the book "Portrait of the Central Wales Line, Martin Smith"  shows a pair of Coal Tanks at LLandrindod Wells Station taken before 1909 and in the caption it states that it says the train is a Euston Express !

I'm sure this is the same photo as in 'Shrewsbury to Swansea' by D.J.Smith*, if so they are not CT's, or if they are they've lost the front sandboxes and wheel covers.  I believe they are a pair of 5' 6" 2-4-2T's, which ran on the line.  This photo is dated around 1905, but note (If these are the same photo's) the original slotted signals on the line have not yet been replaced.

This then raises the question "How far can a CT and other tank engines travel on a bunker of coal?"

 

In 'The Central Wales Line;' by Tom Clift, there are a number of photo's of CT's working Swansea area local Passengers around 1957-58.

 

* I do have 'Portrait of the Central Wales Line', just can't see it on the shelves at present.

Edited April 23, 2017 by Penlan

[Ian Hargrave]

I'm sure this is the same photo as in 'Shrewsbury to Swansea' by D.J.Smith*, if so they are not CT's, or if they are they've lost the front sandboxes and wheel covers.  I believe they are a pair of 5' 6" 2-4-2T's, which ran on the line.  This photo is dated around 1905, but note (If these are the same photo's) the original slotted signals on the line have not yet been replaced.

This then raises the question "How far can a CT and other tank engines travel on a bunker of coal?"

 

In 'The Central Wales Line;' by Tom Clift, there are a number of photo's of CT's working Swansea area local Passengers around 1957-58.

 

* I do have 'Portrait of the Central Wales Line', just can't see it on the shelves at present.

 

I'd query the date on that. I've just discovered that Paxton Street's allocation was withdrawn in 1954 according to the BRdatabase. The last surviving CT was withdrawn in 1958

[Ian Hargrave]

And then there are those of us who will wait until the LMS and BR ( M ) versions are released simply because they are familiar to us as what we still remember.As a Valleys boy in the 40's and 50's along with the G2 's they were the cuckoos in the nest working out of Abergavenny and Tredegar alongside shoals of GW or ex TV locos....a curiosity soon to disappear in 1958 I think with the closure of the lines from Dowlais Top and Tredegar to Abergavenny....well it had been a kind of ghost line for years hanging on to the bitter end.Abercynon shed had 58926 parked outside for a while but I never saw it in steam.Attractive as the LNWR version undoubtedly is,I can find no use for it.

 

The penny finally dropped with me...58926 of fond early 50's memory is ,of course none other than Bachmann's 1054 as preserved Just like being reacquainted with an old friend.

[johnd]

I'm sure this is the same photo as in 'Shrewsbury to Swansea' by D.J.Smith*, if so they are not CT's, or if they are they've lost the front sandboxes and wheel covers. I believe they are a pair of 5' 6" 2-4-2T's, which ran on the line. This photo is dated around 1905, but note (If these are the same photo's) the original slotted signals on the line have not yet been replaced.

This then raises the question "How far can a CT and other tank engines travel on a bunker of coal?"

 

In 'The Central Wales Line;' by Tom Clift, there are a number of photo's of CT's working Swansea area local Passengers around 1957-58.

 

* I do have 'Portrait of the Central Wales Line', just can't see it on the shelves at present.

Only going of the info for the picture !

[Penlan]

I'd query the date on that. I've just discovered that Paxton Street's allocation was withdrawn in 1954 according to the BRdatabase. The last surviving CT was withdrawn in 1958

P. Ransome-Wallis, August 1957 took some photo's, including 58892 at Pontardulias Junct.,

Having seen his notebooks and corresponded with the late Geoff Platt over allocations, I think I will stick with 1957 - 58, rather than a BR database.

 

Back in the mid 1950's, I went on a number of Ian Allen sponsored trips from London to Doncaster, Bristol, etc., Surprising the number of loco's us 'spotters' saw which according to BR had been scrapped long before, I even recall noting an engine at Kings Cross that I later discovered had been withdrawn 3 years earlier - Though don't ask me which one, a lot of my records were lost in the early 70's - an acrimonious divorce.

 

Edited April 23, 2017 by Penlan

[Penlan]

Only going of the info for the picture !

Ah, yes, like models of models   

 

And the info in the picture is probably more accurate than the text for it.

Many's the time captions have been queried.

 

Edited April 23, 2017 by Penlan

[Ian Hargrave]

P. Ransome-Wallis, August 1957 took some photo's, including 58892 at Pontardulias Junct.,

Having seen his notebooks and corresponded with the late Geoff Platt over allocations, I think I will stick with 1957 - 58, rather than a BR database.

 

Back in the mid 1950's, I went on a number of Ian Allen sponsored trips from London to Doncaster, Bristol, etc., Surprising the number of loco's us 'spotters' saw which according to BR had been scrapped long before, I even recall noting an engine at Kings Cross that I later discovered had been withdrawn 3 years earlier - Though don't ask me which one, a lot of my records were lost in the early 70's - an acrimonious divorce.

 

Well,as Alan Bennett once wrote "40 Years On"....my sincere commiserations.Memory is a wonderful commodity..though I am increasingly reliant upon my LocoLog .Looking "over the wall" at Paxton Street was not easy.

[Norton961]

Re the use of Jubilees from Shrewsbury on the C Wales line. (See Ian Hargreaves comments In Post 505) they did indeed work on the CWales line but that was not the only workings they were seen on. They were regularly on Paddington - Birkenhead expresses between Wolverhampton and Chester, Shrewsbury -Stafford trains, Shrewsbury -Pontypool on summer expresses on the North and West route. They were also seen all over the Midlands on sundry workings including troop specials. I remember being hauled by one of them on a Shrewsbury -Wolverhampton train. Remember when they arrived the failure rate amongst the diesels was high so they were substituting for the failures.

[philip-griffiths]

Thanks for this.What I do find really interesting is the working to Newport .Can't recollect this during the 50's.Any further information or photos on these workings ?

WW Tasker in his book on the MTA has a picture of a coal tank at Newport in 1951. By 1954 Sirhowy trains were terminating at Risca for a connection to Newport (how to kill a service eh?). Of course post war the LMS allocated a few of Ivatt's new 2-6-2Ts to Abergavenny and Tredegar so 1201, 1203 and 1204 could have been seen on the trains and also Stanier 2-6-2t 40121 and a couple of others were down that way.

 

Regards.

[Fenway Park]

Apologies, I should have added that they worked post war from Paxton Street but were replaced by the Jinties once the St. Thomas to Brynamman service was withdrawn. Most workings were Push Pull except the Llandebie workings. Source Steam Days. 

 

Amazed at the number that were in store for many years in the 1950s and how few were actually in use. The last one 58296 was attached to a snow plough at Abergavenny and apparently not used as such. 

[Ian Hargrave]

Apologies, I should have added that they worked post war from Paxton Street but were replaced by the Jinties once the St. Thomas to Brynamman service was withdrawn. Most workings were Push Pull except the Llandebie workings. Source Steam Days. 

 

Amazed at the number that were in store for many years in the 1950s and how few were actually in use. The last one 58296 was attached to a snow plough at Abergavenny and apparently not used as such.

 

And was stored out of use at Abercynon for a while before that.It is now resurrected as 1054. It worked the last special over the Dowlais to Abergavenny route before closure.The reason they were not in evidence is answered by their storage out of use.Thanks for that.

[Penlan]

Tim Shuttleworth had photo's of CT's in storage at Craven Arms (Outside actually   ).

[coachmann]

Anyone heard if the BR livery version is around yet?

[Black 5 Bear]

Anyone heard if the BR livery version is around yet?

Edited April 25, 2017 by Black 5 Bear

[Black 5 Bear]

May the 4th by all accounts for both the BR and LMS liveried versions.

[Legend]

Star Wars day

[Ian Hargrave]

Star Wars day

......and the day before...

[Oliver Rails]

 

Our latest Rails TV video which is taking a closer look at the new Bachmann OO 35-050 LNWR Webb Coal Tank Locomotive 1054

 

View on our website here