7mm Gladiator Royal Scot build

[Tim2014]

It is looking good. I have a Jubilee to do so it is all extra interesting for me. I have not built many LMS locos.

I've a DA Jubilee to do as loco No2 so I'll look forward to hearing how you go. Great effort in the 'Build a loco' challenge BTW, it looks superb!

Edited April 10, 2016 by Tim2014

[Tim2014]

I decided to do etched boiler bands but keeping the smokebox, boiler and firebox as separate modules complicates things. The smokebox to boiler join was especially problematic as I wanted the band close to the smokebox rivet line and it was a tradeoff between that and having 'enough' metal to actually cover the small gap across to the boiler. 

Anyway, in the end I was really pleased with how the bands turned out - until I popped the dome between them and realised it didn't fit!

I needed the last 4 modelling evenings poring over photos, the scale drawings and comparing to the model, and eventually concluded the dome casting was sufficiently oversize to leave the bands in place, once the dome is fettled to fit. It'll be close enough I think.

[Grasshopper John]

Hi Tim, coming along nicely mate, Re boiler bands when i did mine I tinned them while still in the etch then gently formed them round the boiler and used quite a bit of flux and just slowly ran the tip of the iron from top to bottom You dont have to put solder on the boiler, It worked ok and a lot less excess solder to clean up.

OK it took me a while to realise this and in your case its horse-bolted but for future reference.

 

Grasshopper.

[Tim2014]

Hi Tim, coming along nicely mate, Re boiler bands when i did mine I tinned them while still in the etch then gently formed them round the boiler and used quite a bit of flux and just slowly ran the tip of the iron from top to bottom You dont have to put solder on the boiler, It worked ok and a lot less excess solder to clean up.

OK it took me a while to realise this and in your case its horse-bolted but for future reference.

 

Grasshopper.

Thanks John - that sounds like a good method, I'll try it on the next horse (which will be the David Andrews Jubilee). But don't hold your breath folks!

[Sandy Harper]

Avoid the holding of breath and leave the metal bands off.

 

Before painting, for a boiler with no lining, add bands using a tape of some sort. Electricians tape or Scotch Magic tape. If lining is to be applied, then use the lining tape only, it's more than scale thickness anyway.

 

Regards

Sandy

[Tim2014]

Avoid the holding of breath and leave the metal bands off.

 

Before painting, for a boiler with no lining, add bands using a tape of some sort. Electricians tape or Scotch Magic tape. If lining is to be applied, then use the lining tape only, it's more than scale thickness anyway.

 

Regards

Sandy

I did toy with going the tape route Sandy, but the firebox bands are chunky too and if I went for tape boiler bands, I think they'd look understated compared to the overstated firebox bands.  In the end it was the difficulty with keeping a thin strip of tape 'square' that made me opt for the brass bands.  If I really don't like them towards the end - I can always desolder them and go for tape.

 

I have HMRS pressfix lining - when you say 'lining tape' do you mean the transfers are thicker than scale boilerbands?

Edited April 29, 2016 by Tim2014

[Tim2014]

Some more work on the cab. The cab cut-out beading actually went on pretty easily. I annealed it for a fair while and curved it back on itself to allow the lower edge to be tacked in place.  A minidrill bit served as a temporary handrail to get the lower end lined up directly above the handrail knob. Once sure it was OK, it was easy to work upwards and outwards.

Looking at these I realise I've forgotten to trim the front of the gutter strips. The instructions imply they should be flush with the front and back of the cab, but looking closely at photos of the real thing shows they were recessed from the edges at the front and back.

(Sorry about the pic orientation BTW!)

Edited April 29, 2016 by Tim2014

[Tim2014]

The sandbox fillers are next and I decided to fit the caps before soldering the plates onto the footplate. That may have been a good plan, but applying a 300C iron for a fraction of a second direct to the back peg of the whitemetal casting was certainly not!

It's been a while since I soldered anything small in whitemetal...

 

Fortunately, the nice kit manufacturer provided some spare caps. [Edit: no they didn't, Tim can't count!]

Edited May 3, 2016 by Tim2014

[PAD]

Hi Tim,

The joys of soldering white metal!

When you are taking the short cut of soldering whitemetal to brass (which I do mostly), the trick is to touch the iron to the brass only with plenty of flux. Less risk of meltdown. I also turn down the heat on the iron compared to soldering brass to brass. The other option is to tin the brass with 145 and then use 70 degree solder but that's more time consuming.

 

Fantastic build by the way.

Cheers,

Peter

[JeffP]

I prefer the second method, and touch the iron only to the speck of 70deg solder I've placed close to the whitemetal and in the flux. The moment it flows, remove the iron.

[N15class]

I did toy with going the tape route Sandy, but the firebox bands are chunky too and if I went for tape boiler bands, I think they'd look understated compared to the overstated firebox bands.  In the end it was the difficulty with keeping a thin strip of tape 'square' that made me opt for the brass bands.  If I really don't like them towards the end - I can always desolder them and go for tape.

 

I have HMRS pressfix lining - when you say 'lining tape' do you mean the transfers are thicker than scale boilerbands?

But if you use tape for all the bands they all look the same. I am with Sandy on this one if there is no lining I paint Magic tape the same colour as the boiler and then use the varnish coat to fix them in place. Or line the magic tape on a flat surface to make line ones. It is far easier to move the tape into place and stick it down, than a brass one which on a tapered boiler ought to have a taper too.

Edited May 1, 2016 by N15class

[Tim2014]

Hmm, lots of food for thought. I know the tape option makes sense. I was thinking I'd keep the firebox banding as supplied as I don't fancy adding rivets (even though I know it's possible). But you really can't see the rivets very clearly in prototype pics*, nor the banding either. And if you can see riveting, there are whole lines that are just as visible as the banding rivets which aren't reproduced at all on the model.  So two things keep me from ripping it all off:

1. I've done it and having invested the time, it looks better to me than I know it should!

2. The tape option wouldn't allow me to have a detachable smokebox and firebox.

 

Point 2 isn't especially necessary, but given I've never painted or lined a model before - I do like the idea of modular sections where I can strip everything off one section with serious paint stripper if necessary.  Then there is also the possible smoke generator and sound system that will certainly be easier to install in a modular arrangement.

 

So I think I'll keep the brass, at least into the primer and a coat of green on one section. A clincher might be the width of the lining transfers which I haven't checked against the boiler bands. I'd love to learn to line with a bow pen, but somehow I don't think this is the right time to start.  Peter, your painting thread is going to be really useful...but the hand lining will be for another day compared to the rest of it.  Quickly looking at your builds reminded me I haven't properly figured out what to do with the leading bogie regarding springing or compensation (or both!) either.

 

*This exercise did show a much wider rivet spacing in photos than as supplied in the kit, so I'll be filing some off!

[Tim2014]

I prefer the second method, and touch the iron only to the speck of 70deg solder I've placed close to the whitemetal and in the flux. The moment it flows, remove the iron.

You're a star JeffP - I've used that method stacks of times meddling with making jewellery - but it never crossed my mind to try it on this kit

It worked a treat with my second attempt (and 2nd filler cap!).

 

I've used some creative liberty to create a lower angle under the plate - Dikitriki kindly sent me his awesome overhead pics from the SVR gala in 2015 and 46100 sorta looked a bit like this. I wouldn't have bothered, except you have to do something otherwise the plate doesn't sit square to the footplate because of the splasher beading. I guessed at a 45 degree inclination, it looks about right and matches the rise height from the scale drawings. If anyone knows better please say now before I do the next 3!

 

When I said I had spares, I'd forgotten the sand boxes have filler caps on too so I'm actually one down now...I sense another internet order. Who does a late style topfeed for a Scot AND late LMS sand filler caps?

Edited May 1, 2016 by Tim2014

[N15class]

2. The tape option wouldn't allow me to have a detachable smokebox and firebox.

 

Why is that? I have made models with detatchable boilers lined with Magic tape.  Here is my LBSC A1

[Tim2014]

Hi Tim,

The joys of soldering white metal!

When you are taking the short cut of soldering whitemetal to brass (which I do mostly), the trick is to touch the iron to the brass only with plenty of flux. Less risk of meltdown. I also turn down the heat on the iron compared to soldering brass to brass. The other option is to tin the brass with 145 and then use 70 degree solder but that's more time consuming.

 

Fantastic build by the way.

Cheers,

Peter

Thanks for those kind words Peter - if the kit is turning out OK - it's thanks to the great help from kind users of this forum. I'd have made a complete pigs ear of it without help and advice from here!  Not turning the heat down was my pricipal mistake here, but that's a really good point about plenty of flux, that boiling off is going to help keep things cool.

[Tim2014]

Why is that? I have made models with detatchable boilers lined with Magic tape.  Here is my LBSC A1

I stand corrected! I doubted the ability of the tape to stand up to having the boiler inserted (while still keeping a tight fit to the boiler).  Do you have a special technique to get it back together after it gets disassembled?

[N15class]

I stand corrected! I doubted the ability of the tape to stand up to having the boiler inserted (while still keeping a tight fit to the boiler).  Do you have a special technique to get it back together after it gets disassembled?

No just very carefully, as I can be ham fisted. I actually tend to the painting and lining reassemble which then gives a chance to touch up if needed. I like to varnish it as a unit, others will have their preferences.

 

Most is sorted before painting. You just have to remember that a good with paint needs to start as a loose fit. Nothing worse than watching the paint peel off as two parts are pushed together.

[JeffP]

 

 

When I said I had spares, I'd forgotten the sand boxes have filler caps on too so I'm actually one down now...I sense another internet order. Who does a late style topfeed for a Scot AND late LMS sand filler caps?

 

Try Ragstone.

[Tim2014]

David Hill, the new owner of the Gladiator range kindly sourced me a replacement late style topfeed and some lovely brass sand filler caps at a very reasonable cost. So that solves soldering them on, even if it’s a lazy way out!  They are scale size too.

 

Getting all the sand filler plate angles right was a mission as each is a contact point with the (tapering) boiler.  The only way I could do it was with different angles for the forward and rear plates, I *think* that’s right from looking at pics.  I quick plug for ‘Railonline’ in that regard: they have been most helpful sourcing photos from their range, and although not ultra cheap, one I sourced almost as an afterthought of 46159 at Birmingham New Street, is of superb quality and shows an amazing level of detail for such a distant shot.  From that and other photos, the filler plates look to have got quite battered in service, so hopefully it’s a case of almost anything will do.  I think there was a bent angle on each edge too, to give strength and that shows as additional thickness, but I’m too impatient to try and capture that.  I’m happy enough with the finished result.

 

The boiler supports were a different matter.  These are somewhat hidden behind lubricators eventually, but the etched pieces were a little unsubstantial for my liking so I have gone to the other extreme and added what is too chunky a piece of central angle.  Still,  I *think* it’s better than it was, I may thin the edges off a little.   I also had to ‘carve’ out a bit more on the etched recess for these parts as one side didn’t come far enough up from underneath and around to put the support in the right place.  I hope you can’t tell!

 

I couldn’t resist balancing the boiler jewellery on top to keep the inspirational juices flowing (note, the dome is the only part that has so far received serious fettling and you can’t really see it!).

 

[Guest Isambarduk]

" quick plug for ‘Railonline’ in that regard: they have been most helpful sourcing photos from their range,"

 

I agree.  See here: www.rail-online.co.uk   David

[Tim2014]

Back onto following the instructions – it’s nice to just get on with soldering things together and not having to think too much.  Some plates and the front steps went on quite quickly.

 

I've 'deleted' the front handrails because they disappeared in the later BR period, but I'm now torn between sticking to the AWS period or shifting earlier to mid 50s when express locos were more likely to turned out in a reasonable state of cleanliness. I was modelling later to have maroon Mk1 stock as I prefer that colour combination with BR green and figured it was easy to rebadge the LMS lima coaches I have in that livery.  But I'm appalled by the condition most steam locos were in by then (especially 46159 which does not appear to have been a shed pet!) and can't bring myself to do anything other than very mild weathering on the loco.  I can't find many pics of an all Maroon rake of Mk1s until quite late on in the 50s.   So maybe I should go for blood and custard Mk1 stock and skip the AWS gear. 46159 was shedded at Crewe North in the mid 50s and 59/60 so that's not an issue.  Does anyone know the earliest that a all maroon rake of BR coaches is plausible?  I know *nothing* about coaches and although I'm having 'fun' with the garden layout at the moment, the loco may one day be part of a serious attempt to model somewhere, sometime when these decisions may matter more.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Tim2014

[t-b-g]

I don't know about the West Coast lines but the first all maroon ECML set appeared in 1957 if that is any guide.

 

Tony

[Tim2014]

Sadly, it has been a long while, with little to update.  I have been fighting our local Council over their plans to allocate our local Park to a semi-professional soccer team which took more time and energy than I could have believed possible.  Still, we won the day and then helped the next 3 groups of locals they tried to foist the plan onto.  The end result has been very little finger burning and even less kit assembly.

Compounding the lack of enthusiasm has been uncertainty over whether to model AWS period or not and a fear of the opening smoke box door.  But a friend at work who also models RC planes pointed out 'Done is better than perfect' and so in surge of blood to the head, I decided I didn't really need the opening smokebox and soldered the door on.

The creative juices were satisfied, until I remembered that now I had absolutely no way to get to the screws holding the smokebox to the boiler

So off it has come and I have gone back to executing Plan A which involves a lot of fiddling. I hope to have pics soon.  Assuming anyone cares!  I hope all reading are making much better progress than me.

[Tim2014]

Since 1st April is the Birthday of the Royal Air Force (the Force, not the Regiment nor the loco, but still), I've balanced a few bits together for a pic. I think it will be close enough when everything is together, even though I know the dimensions aren't quite right. If anything howls at you, please let me know.

 

 

I see since my last update RMWeb permits larger pics, bravo (after I specially cropped this one)!

Edited March 31, 2017 by Tim2014

[Grasshopper John]

Hello Tim, and welcome back. Personally I would have painted the Number plate on the smokebox before fitting, Took me a good few attempts to get the black background and white numbers.