Tim2014 Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) I had an opportunity to attack the footplate today. Riveting and soldering is great, but then I realised I was going to have to do some annealing and rolling! Suddenly the valve gear seems quite attractive! Here's the parts cut out and partially cleaned up: Last time I tried this was on some tender sides a long time ago, at least the rear footplate curve is small and has no detail...: Unlike the front, see the rivets?: I decided to add them after, riveting them onto a piece of pine dowel rather than risk squashing them during the bending, this isn't a great pic, they look a bit better than this in the flesh: Here is the rear joined to the valances and main footplate. I've glossed over attaching the valances, but they were very simple to do. Tacked in place in the middle, checked square and then tacked at intervals out to the edges (not the very ends where the smaller plates are added so as to keep solder well clear of that area for now), then seamed along in stages. Here is is on the glass, nice and flat. I (a bit tentatively!) soldered the valances to the footplate on the glass and I think that probably made the task easier, I thought the glass might crack, but the footplate is such a good conductor it probably isn't a risk. I choose to leave as much material 'in the middle' for support as I could. I will cut it out when it's time to fold up the splashers. Just the front to add on, it's just resting here, I still have some fettling to do to ensure the curve matches all 4 contact points and sits nicely against the main footplate with a little lip. EDIT in hindsight!: Now is a great time to cut out the smoke deflectors and make sure the lower edges fit against the footplate and front drop plate. My lower drop plate ended up a bit low and I needed to add some shim, which is a pain. Edited November 9, 2018 by Tim2014 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Tim I think Ozzyo was only referring to the crankpin to lock it home not the bushes ( I think ) BTW How do you keep your model gleaming, I live near the water and what with the flux and salt in the air I suffer a lot of rust especially on tools which are always left out. Getting there though Tim keep at it sir. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 ....what with the flux and salt in the air I suffer a lot of rust .... I would have thought this was an advantage if you wanted to accurately portray weathering.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 I would have thought this was an advantage if you wanted to accurately portray weathering.... All of my tools are perfectly weathered Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold farren Posted July 7, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 7, 2015 I stick mothballs in my tool box which stops any of them from rusting. Seems to work. Was told to do this by a old school engineer who as sadly gone to the big engineering shop in the sky. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim2014 Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 Tim I think Ozzyo was only referring to the crankpin to lock it home not the bushes ( I think ) BTW How do you keep your model gleaming, I live near the water and what with the flux and salt in the air I suffer a lot of rust especially on tools which are always left out. Getting there though Tim keep at it sir. Ah, locking in the crankpins I might go for - although my method for holding the return crank needs them to be tweaked, I should be able to mark it up before hand. Pretty sure he does show a tapped top-hat bush as well though. Probably a case of 'in expert hands' all's well, but in mine... As for gleaming - I think you've been taken in by the fact the footplate only came out of it's tissue paper the day before yesterday. Perth is generally very dry so that will help, and maybe the flux I use is a factor: DCC concepts Sapphire no clean liquid flux works for me - although I can't say I've tried anything else other than plumbers paste (yuk). I can't see I'd ever use anything other than the Sapphire now for models or electrical components/circuit boards. It rusted a tyre where some dropped on unbeknownst and I forgot to clean it off, but my tools have stayed pretty clean compared to what I expected. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 With the return crank I used 145dg solder tin the top hat and return crank,use a cocktail stick to centralise it make sure its about 5-10dg forward when the crankpin is at 6oc use plenty of flux and crank iron up to about 325dg Listen for the flux to do it's work but be quick with the iron. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Tim, I forgot to mention something crucial, Not sure about Epoxy to fit Return Crank, but with solder you have to cut the crankpin shorter by about a 1 to 1 1/2 MM from the top of the flange on the bush, Then take the bush off and cover the crankpin in felt tip pen and a very light oil. This will stop any solder running onto the crankpin and seizing it up, I did It and it bas@tard to put it right. HTH John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funtleyworks Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Hello Tim The Gladiator kit is a very nice kit, although slightly let down by the casting side of things. Some pictures of the one I built enclosed with a few replacement casting from Laurie Griffin. Keep up the good work and posts!! 8 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim2014 Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 Tim, I forgot to mention something crucial, Not sure about Epoxy to fit Return Crank, but with solder you have to cut the crankpin shorter by about a 1 to 1 1/2 MM from the top of the flange on the bush, Then take the bush off and cover the crankpin in felt tip pen and a very light oil. This will stop any solder running onto the crankpin and seizing it up, I did It and it bas@tard to put it right. HTH 10 John. Hi John, I used a different approach that means the return crank is all soldered up off the 10BA bolt, so no need for masking or fear of soldering things solid. I claim no credit for originality, I nicked all the ideas off here or over at WT. I tapped the top hat bush by lining it up and soldering it onto a scrap piece of brass with an oversize hole in it (I think Ozzy showed how to do that for making scale crank nuts, beats holding them in pliers! You then desolder it (nicely tinned and solder it onto the 1st lamination of return crank which has a hole to get things close to centered. I then solder the top (detailed) laminate over the 1st. I use 185 solder for the bush to 1st laminate (inside when in position), then 145 (quickly) to hold the outer face on. I described this as though it all goes right first time, inevitably there are 3 or 4 tries before everything is actually where you want it! Of course the slight down side with this is that you then have to 'tweak' the 10BA bolt the return crank tightens onto so that the crank sits at the right angle. I think it might have been Len7P who detailed this somewhere on here. I was able to just about get a jewellers screwdriver in with the wheels on to do the tweaking, there's roughly a 20 degree sweetzone where the bush is just clamping up against the coupling rod bush (which I think should be drilled out to accommodate 10BA, not tapped). Having got everything lined up, I will mark things, reassemble and make sure nothing is different, then dismantle and loctite the 10BA bolt into the correct position through the wheel. I should then be able to use nail varnish on the return crank bush as it's very lightly loaded. If that fails in use, I will resort to threadlocker. I'll come back and edit this post when I find the original link as it had a diagram which makes it all much clearer than my ramblings will! I've had the return crank on and off again numerous times so far with no signs of anything moving so I don't think I've just been 'lucky'. This is on a 10BA bolt through done up quite tight into the wheel face, if you used a stock 12BA you might be asking a lot of the wheel plastic to stop it rotating (rather than the crank). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim2014 Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 Hello Tim The Gladiator kit is a very nice kit, although slightly let down by the casting side of things. Some pictures of the one I built enclosed with a few replacement casting from Laurie Griffin. Keep up the good work and posts!! Thanks Funtleyworks, I appreciate the encouragement. That's one very nice looking loco, and the castings on the cylinders and motion are definitely a noticeable improvement. I may do a valve gear rebuild on mine in due course, but I'm content to live with it for now (after all it's going to be pulling LIma coaches until I win the lottery!!). Have you painted yours yet? As Horsetan said, seeing them 'naked' shows a lot of useful detail, so I appreciate the au naturel look ATM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim2014 Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) The front footplate proved awkward and I ended up redoing it as the lower top face wasn't parallel to the main footplate and the front of these locos is so distinctive (and photographed!) it needed to be spot on. I also made an error in getting too much solder between the rear splashers and the rear footplate which necessitated some fretsaw work to allow them to fold up unimpeded: But we got a result! It's clear the motion support bracket it too low compared to the footplate. I should have thought of this sooner as I've been meddling with the clearances on the motion when in fact the problem was the motion support bracket (note this is with the 1st attempt on the footplate front, fortunately blurred): And now with splashers added and all cleaned up, the rear isn't sitting quite right as there is some cleaning up from the brake cylinder soldering that's pround of the chassis: Splashers are fun aren't they? No doubt there's a knack to them, but I settled on getting the curved top plates to a near exact fit in arc, slightly smaller if anything. I used a triangular file to 'notch' the corners of the footplate/vertical bent part where the bending isn't as crisp as I'd like and filed a chamfer on the leading and trailing 'mating' faces on the footplate. I then held the top plate in position in one hand and tacked it at the front and back. A bulldog clip (clamp?!) then served to hold the splasher top plate tightly to the bent up side face while I seam the inside from underneath. Other methods I tried always ended up with either the splasher top plate proud of the side plate, or a gap between the side of the top plate and the half etch alignment groove on the side plate. The first one (rear left) took longer than the other five!). And finally, just to show there is a right hand side to the chassis (and why the loco lists to the left with the CSB!): I'll fit the motor and right hand side connecting rod tomorrow and the proper CSB springs to try a powered RC run at some point to make sure it all works OK. I'm leaving the middle web in until I fit the cab and maybe even firebox. I was quite surprised how much torsional rigidity the splashers added and I'm glad I decided to do them now. They make the footplate much stronger as it may be a while before it gets worked on again. Edited July 12, 2015 by Tim2014 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Nice Tim, Keep It coming. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funtleyworks Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Hello Tim. Have found some more of the one I done. It was built for someone else but I have seen it painted and it look pretty good. I do like locos Au Naturale(!), they seem to have a rawness about them, but when you see them finished painted by a professional it makes you wonder if it the same build!!! As you can see I managed to build the boiler footplate assembly separately making it easier to paint. Not to difficult a job if you contemplate it. The only small issue apparent using Laurie's castings with kits etchings is the combination lever is slightly to long!! Hope it's not to many pictures!!!! ATB Andrew 12 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Phwoar! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funtleyworks Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Lol Horsetan!! Different build but I did enjoy this little job..................NOT!! 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim2014 Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Hello Tim. Have found some more of the one I done. It was built for someone else but I have seen it painted and it look pretty good. I do like locos Au Naturale(!), they seem to have a rawness about them, but when you see them finished painted by a professional it makes you wonder if it the same build!!! As you can see I managed to build the boiler footplate assembly separately making it easier to paint. Not to difficult a job if you contemplate it. The only small issue apparent using Laurie's castings with kits etchings is the combination lever is slightly to long!! Hope it's not to many pictures!!!! ATB Andrew No point saying anything complementary - the photos do the talking. Perhaps even more eloquently than Horsetan?! Thanks for posting them though, as well as being inspiring, it's handy seeing the finished model from different angles that lack equivalent prototype photos: there's the risk of copying a mistake, but also, safety in numbers! If anyone has detailed photos of 46159, please get in touch! Hoping I can ask a few more questions: Was that model conventionally sprung? It looked like the hint of a roller bearing in that hornblock - and a pin through the axle? What purpose does the plate over the motion support bracket serve? Does the smokebox door open (I want to do that on my mine)? Is that the kit laminated motion rods - if so how did you get the edges so crisp and smooth? I was initially intrigued by the detachable boiler assembly, but how do you hold it in place once painted - I'd be scared to rely on the bolt holes between the cab and the firebox...? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 link Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 " Pin through the axles " they must be Mr Harris's wheels, Tim you would need a big piggy bank for a set of those and even if you had the money I'm afraid he's not trading anymore . Martyn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 " Pin through the axles " they must be Mr Harris's wheels, Tim you would need a big piggy bank for a set of those and even if you had the money I'm afraid he's not trading anymore . Martyn. Hello Martyn, I did think that at first, but when you look closely they have black "plastic" centres and the tell tail vee for the "plastic" in the wheel rim. So why the pin I don't know maybe Andrew will let us all know. Getting at the Allan screw due to the return crank? OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 link Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Hi Ozzy, Oh yeah I see what you mean, the last photo on post 164 shows the back of the wheel and it does look like a slaters rim and wheel back. You and that Mk 1 eyeball of yours Oz....... : ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) Hi Ozzy, Oh yeah I see what you mean, the last photo on post 164 shows the back of the wheel and it does look like a slaters rim and wheel back. You and that Mk 1 eyeball of yours Oz....... : ) What are you doing up at this time of night? It's way past your bed time. The new steel Allan screws don't help. I don't like them that much. OzzyO. PS. it's a good job I've still got one Mk 1 and a second Mk 2 left then. Edited July 13, 2015 by ozzyo 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funtleyworks Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Hello chaps To answer the questions! 1 The only wheel that was compensated was the centre one, just floating with a spring wire on top to hold it down as per customers request. 2 The front bogie and tender had roller bearings 3 The loco used a lot of Laurie Griffin castings and on the motion to used his parts. The plate on top of the motion bracket supports the parts that make up all of the motion. So slide bar brackets, eccentric bracket etc. thus making it all quite sturdy in frail part of the kit. It is just a .8mm piece of nickel silver cut out to fit. 4 The connecting rods/ coupling rods are from the kit. My process is to remove all the etch cusp first then solder with 188 solder then lots more cleaning up!! The best thing is 600 wet and dry and I also use a thin oil to. 5 The boiler firebox assy is bolted through the back of the firebox using the same holes you are supposed to use to fix it and it is also screwed underneath the smokebox saddle. Surprisingly strong when it is all screwed up. 6 Wheels. I have probably turned 1000s of Alan Harris wheels!! And when Alan's product was lost to the hobby I looked at ways of improving Slaters wheels. So basically that nasty brass hub is removed and the wheels mounted on telescopic axles. Which then need quartering, or if the eagle eyed amongst you may have noticed the wheels are actually 120°!! 7 I think that's it!!! Any more questions just ask!!! ATB Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funtleyworks Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 One more thing!!! The return crank is mounted on a 10BA stub just screwed onto the crank pin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 What are you doing up at this time of night? It's way past your bed time.... ...says the man known as Mr Insomnia. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 ...says the man known as Mr Insomnia. Says the second man known as I can't sleep as I've a Deltic and Western going around in my head. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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