Railway Motors

[Merfyn Jones]

How about a book !

 

Ah, a long story. My photo collection from the yellow period were in the hands of the late Alan Earnshaw at Trans Pennine with the intention of doing a book on B R road vehicles from 1969 to 1994. With his passing last year, I fear that we shall not see it published unless they passed the CDs to somebody else.

There was even a new catalogue produced showing new books and there was one of my piccys on a mock up front cover, so some work was done on it.

Merfyn.

[coachmann]

A book of railway owned road vehicles would indeed be interesting. But what a mighty book it would be if it were to cover pre-grouping, Big Four and BR right up to to present day. Might have to be in two parts to keep costs down.

 

Larry

[jcb 3c]

A book on the yellow period alone would do me !

 

I find the Transpennine books a bit disatisfying , although reasonably priced .

When they cover a big topic it just seems like a magazine article , perhaps they are better when they just cover one type/make of vehicle .

[Fat Controller]

A book of railway owned road vehicles would indeed be interesting. But what a mighty book it would be if it were to cover pre-grouping, Big Four and BR right up to to present day. Might have to be in two parts to keep costs down.

 

Larry

There's quite a nice one on Southern Region road vehicles come out recently- not cheap, however.

[Paglesham]

That link to Ernie's Railway Archive??

At some point, a man just HAS to model a place called Bitchburn Over Crook....don't he?

What a fabulous resource.

Sorry to hi-jack a bit, but are there many of these sorts of personal archive collections? I like the road vehicles as much as the railways. There's a nice Triumph Vitesse in there too.

M

[Merfyn Jones]

Hi Merfyn,

 

here is a very cruel close up of a scanned negative showing the old engineers compound alongside Wigan Wallgate station which may be of interest to you (not sure of the exact date but probably c1972 / 73):

 

Always useful for modeling are back end views, note that both of those rears are different. Bodies of the personnel carriers were made by a number of manufacturers, the only one I am certain of was Wolverton Works. Anybody know who else made them ?

We shall see shortly which style the Base Toys version is !

Merfyn.

[Fat Controller]

Always useful for modeling are back end views, note that both of those rears are different. Bodies of the personnel carriers were made by a number of manufacturers, the only one I am certain of was Wolverton Works. Anybody know who else made them ?

We shall see shortly which style the Base Toys version is !

Merfyn.

I believe some were made by a company based at Bedwas (near Newport), latterly owned by Securicor- I remember noticing a builder's plate on the rear and remembering that some of my mother's family lived there. Might they have been called 'Star Bodies'? I have seen references to an in-house body-builders for NFC that rejoiced in this name.

[Merfyn Jones]

I believe some were made by a company based at Bedwas (near Newport), latterly owned by Securicor- I remember noticing a builder's plate on the rear and remembering that some of my mother's family lived there. Might they have been called 'Star Bodies'? I have seen references to an in-house body-builders for NFC that rejoiced in this name.

 

Thanks for that Brian, as you say the builders plates were at the back and so very few photos. Yes Star Bodies was from Oldham and were body builders for firstly BRS then the NFC. They'r mostly remembered for the hundreds of BRS Parcels BMC Noddy Vans.

The later chassis/cab personnel carriers usualy had their builders plates on the front of the body at roof level and were easier to spot, but unlike the FGs they were very standard looking . I have noted Bedwas, Locomotors, Besco, Aitkin, GRP Massey, BREL Wolverton ? on them. Of course the Bedwas company building and converting for Securicor would be the reason that Securicor vehicles were always registered in Cardiff. Coincidently after National Carriers closed down their workshop in Llandudno our servicing of BR vehicles went to Securicor, did they do this work elsewhere ?

Merfyn.

[Fat Controller]

Thanks for that Brian, as you say the builders plates were at the back and so very few photos. Yes Star Bodies was from Oldham and were body builders for firstly BRS then the NFC. They'r mostly remembered for the hundreds of BRS Parcels BMC Noddy Vans.

The later chassis/cab personnel carriers usualy had their builders plates on the front of the body at roof level and were easier to spot, but unlike the FGs they were very standard looking . I have noted Bedwas, Locomotors, Besco, Aitkin, GRP Massey, BREL Wolverton ? on them. Of course the Bedwas company building and converting for Securicor would be the reason that Securicor vehicles were always registered in Cardiff. Coincidently after National Carriers closed down their workshop in Llandudno our servicing of BR vehicles went to Securicor, did they do this work elsewhere ?

Merfyn.

Didn't Securicor's Exel subsiduary take over NCL/NFCs activities? Regarding the later bodies- I do wonder if they were ever re-used on new chassis?

[Merfyn Jones]

Didn't Securicor's Exel subsiduary take over NCL/NFCs activities? Regarding the later bodies- I do wonder if they were ever re-used on new chassis?

 

As far as I know BR never re used the bodies on new chassis, they had a very hard life !

However since they were all disposed of many have appeared in the preservation world on all sorts of odd chassis. They look particularly odd on 6 wheel AEC flats, and ex Army Bedford 4x4s .

Don't know about the Securicor, Exel connection. I think the Exel bit is the only part of the former NFC to still exist. And Securicor combined their security side with Group 4 to make S4G and sold their parcel side to, I think DHL.

Merfyn.

[kevblokey]

Always useful for modeling are back end views, note that both of those rears are different. Bodies of the personnel carriers were made by a number of manufacturers, the only one I am certain of was Wolverton Works. Anybody know who else made them ?

We shall see shortly which style the Base Toys version is !

Merfyn.

 

That would be the one on the right of the two FGs in the pic, see the base toys thread for a rear shot.

 

Is that the Bedford PC as modelled by Oxford on the right (The 20 seater or whatever it is!)

[Merfyn Jones]

That would be the one on the right of the two FGs in the pic, see the base toys thread for a rear shot.

 

Is that the Bedford PC as modelled by Oxford on the right (The 20 seater or whatever it is!)

 

So far my collection has at least 4 different variations of the FG. The Base Toys model has a flat rear up to roof top like the one on the left of the Wigan piccy, and short door hinges like the one on the right. They appear to have based it on early 70s BR official photographs and a drawing that does not show the hinges ! A good choice as both liverys are suitable.

The Bedford TK is the 22 ish seater PWay bus similar to the Oxford model, and again I have piccys of 3 different body styles on these on 2 different sizes of chassis.

 

The Oxford model is based on this one, small wheels and low front indicators. Improvment to the model can be made by shortening the wheelbase to the correct length and shortening the body to suit.

Photo British Railways/ M Jones collection.

[kevblokey]

So far my collection has at least 4 different variations of the FG. The Base Toys model has a flat rear up to roof top like the one on the left of the Wigan piccy, and short door hinges like the one on the right. They appear to have based it on early 70s BR official photographs and a drawing that does not show the hinges ! A good choice as both liverys are suitable.

The Bedford TK is the 22 ish seater PWay bus similar to the Oxford model, and again I have piccys of 3 different body styles on these on 2 different sizes of chassis.

 

The Oxford model is based on this one, small wheels and low front indicators. Improvment to the model can be made by shortening the wheelbase to the correct length and shortening the body to suit.

Photo British Railways/ M Jones collection.

 

I knew you would be the man to know!

 

Thanks for that, I assumed wrongly that the TK bus was a one off, clearly not.

[43110andyb]

I forgot I had this file on my computer. Good old British Rail documents!!! br14222.pdf

[divibandit]

I forgot I had this file on my computer. Good old British Rail documents!!! br14222.pdf

 

This is brilliant, don't suppose you got dimensions for the body on that Bruff re-railer? Does anyone know if these vehicles were 4x4?

Thanks for sharing this.

Steve

[Merfyn Jones]

This is brilliant, don't suppose you got dimensions for the body on that Bruff re-railer? Does anyone know if these vehicles were 4x4?

Thanks for sharing this.

Steve

 

A very useful document.

Yes the Bruff/Bedfords were 4x4

Merfyn

[43110andyb]

This is brilliant, don't suppose you got dimensions for the body on that Bruff re-railer? Does anyone know if these vehicles were 4x4?

Thanks for sharing this.

Steve

 

 

No dimensions, sorry this is all I have.

[jcb 3c]

Spotted BR yellow Atkinson Borderer artic tractor unit at Malton on these pics ( with a CoMmer van , FG and Marina ) what were the Atkis used for ? never seen a BR one before .

Photos 5 + 6 click to enlarge.

 

 

 

http://www.yorkshirewoldsrailway.org.uk/history/malton_station.php

[Fat Controller]

Spotted BR yellow Atkinson Borderer artic tractor unit at Malton on these pics ( with a Conmer van , FG and Marina ) what were the Atkis used for ? never seen a BR one before .

 

 

 

http://www.yorkshirewoldsrailway.org.uk/history/malton_station.php

 

http://www.yorkshirewoldsrailway.org.uk/history/malton_station.php

They'd have been used for heavier haulage jobs that TKs and similar couldn't do- anything from delivering railborne steel to loads of bulk fertiliser. There were Seddons used for this sort of work, and possibly also ERFs and Fodens. Until the beginning of the 1980s, the NUR tended to try and stop non-BR staff and vehiccles collecting from goods depots and container terminals, as BR had its own vehicles for this work.

[Merfyn Jones]

They'd have been used for heavier haulage jobs that TKs and similar couldn't do- anything from delivering railborne steel to loads of bulk fertiliser. There were Seddons used for this sort of work, and possibly also ERFs and Fodens. Until the beginning of the 1980s, the NUR tended to try and stop non-BR staff and vehiccles collecting from goods depots and container terminals, as BR had its own vehicles for this work.

 

Interesting Brian

I had seen the Atkinson at Malton and often wondered of it's use.

B R ceased doing collection and delivery from goods yards in 1968, the busness passing to National Carriers. Prior to that a number of heavier artic wagons were introduced bringing the fifth wheel coupling to B R for the first time. I have seen Seddon, Dodge, Guy and Leylands. I have never seen anything since. The Malton photo is late 70s as that was when the white/blue parcels livery (behind on the Commer) was introduced. A mystery, possibly a NCL vehicle in BR livery for some special contract. The parcels business was run this way.

Re. ERF and Foden, never seen any except Fodens with Freightliner, but would love to see any photos.

The business of the union stopping non BR wagons in, was I believe refering to Freightliner terminals.

Merfyn.

[jcb 3c]

Interesting stuff chaps,google search for BR Atki's reveals the Corgi model which has an identical livery and is registered HLV 608P , a real vehicle :icon_what:

[jcb 3c]

Answering my own question ,google search on reg. no. HLV608P reveals yes its a real vehicle and in preservation , apparently it was new to NCL , so Merfyns theory looking good.

 

[divibandit]

No dimensions, sorry this is all I have.

Ok, thanks for sharing this, very useful

Steve

[Fat Controller]

Answering my own question ,google search on reg. no. HLV608P reveals yes its a real vehicle and in preservation , apparently it was new to NCL , so Merfyns theory looking good.

 

I couldn't find this in the Corgi list- which bit is it in?

[jcb 3c]

To be honest pulled Corgi Atkinson catalogue pic off google images , model no. is CC12512 and its a limited edition of 2300. Nice model but should the trailer be yellow? all the dealers I've looked at are sold out.