Kernow GWR steam rail motor

[Kaput]

Well, finally delivered today and seems to be in one piece.

 

Currently running in. Bit noisy and not 100% smooth yet but hopefully running in should sort that.

[Halvarras]

On 19/03/2024 at 10:37, KeithMacdonald said:

I know this is not the current Kernow GWR steam rail motor, but perhaps a future variation?

Found in Swindon Central Library album on Flickr.

 

 

 

Found some notes on it here:

https://didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/zrailmotor93/history/pictures/sub_gubbins.html

 

 

SRMs to this design were also used in Cornwall, on the Truro to Newquay (via Chacewater and Perranporth) branch - the line fully opened in 1905 so these were in use from the start, sometimes with trailers, but I'm not sure how long they lasted on this service.

[Penrhos1920]

On 19/03/2024 at 11:55, Coppercap said:

It's hardly a 'variation' - I don't think anything you can see is common to the Kernow version. It would need to be a completely new model, and most unlikey to appear. These weren't very long lived when compared to the one we now have, limiting their appeal. Also, the fact that there isn't a 12" to the foot model to measure (only drawings, and photos) would make it even more unlikely.

 

 Alternately you could keep the power unit bogie and put the rest on eBay. I’m sure somebody would like to buy the body and convert it into an auto coach. 

[Colin_McLeod]

On 22/03/2024 at 17:28, Pteremy said:

 

Do you have the same postcode as the church? If you take SATNAV as an example there are clearly some people who overlook the blindingly obvious preferring to believe what the information on their 'device' is telling them.

 

On 22/03/2024 at 17:37, Andy Keane said:

Indeed we do and no doubt that was the excuse.

 

The Irish post code system ( Eircode) has a unique Eircode for each individual property.  Our Eircode is therefore different from our neighbours.

[Oldddudders]

French postcodes typically cover hundreds of square miles and thousands of properties. They rely on a commune name to get closer. 

[Bluebell Model Railway]

I received a preserved example of the steam railmotor from Kernow, I decided if there were any left I may pick one up and after they dealt with the mass of orders to send out from the past 10 years, I went and ordered and arrived pretty quickly, overall its a very nice model, lots of detail, runs well, lighting a little bright, some light bleed from the main internal lights, I only run DC so I'll just have to adjust my dimmer... I mean speed controller 😅

https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjBhpZD





And a small review:

Cheers

[Tumut]

On 23/03/2024 at 04:13, Andy Keane said:

This was one for us - we live 150 yards from the Abbey and the parcel was wedged into the door to the bell tower - luckily the Church Warden saw this dumping going on and retrieved the parcel worth £400! They claimed it was our front door as if we lived in a 900 year old Abbey!

 

HelloAll, this is why I use a PO Box ! I have a friend who had a US locomotive thrown over the fence by the Courier, and landed in the garden, fortunately no damage to locomotive, and I have also been told of parcels left on the front gate pillar, which usually then get "lifted", so I refuse to use a courier, if they will not deliver to my PO Box (some will not) then I go elsewhere, or go without.I think it is highly unprofessional for couriers NOT to deliver and get a signature, after all, that was supposed to be the reason for using a courier. Regards, Tumut

[SRman]

I have one of the steam railmotors running on my layout at present. It isn't mine! This one actually belongs to a friend who is in the throes of planning his own layout, so he brought it and a Dapol 43XX around to run on Newton Broadway. He decided to leave them both with me to be run-in and get further running time.

 

I have to say, I find it to be a beautiful model, and a well-running one at that. I posted the video link on my own layout thread, but it is relevant here as well. The sound is pretty good also.

 

 

[Pteremy]

On 22/03/2024 at 15:34, Pteremy said:

Hopefully there will be another 'despatch update' soon. 

 

Thanks for the update - sounds like I should get mine sometime during April.

[Andy Keane]

I have often puzzled about the carriage shed at Helston. It was not long enough to take a B set, even the E40 variants so why was it built the length it was? But maybe this is the answer: the SRM fits very nicely and we know they did run into Helston. Perhaps the shed was built with these in mind - does anyone know if the introduction of SRMs led to the construction of sheds to house them?

 

Edited March 29 by Andy Keane

[Steamport Southport]

16 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

I have often puzzled about the carriage shed at Helston. It was not long enough to take a B set, even the E40 variants so why was it built the length it was? But maybe this is the answer: the SRM fits very nicely and we know they did run into Helston. Perhaps the shed was built with these in mind - does anyone know if the introduction of SRMs led to the construction of sheds to hose them?

 

 

Yes. Almost exclusively. Same goes for places like Watlington which also got a "carriage shed".

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watlington_and_Princes_Risborough_Railway

 

Realised there was no photos of the shed in that link!

 

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/w/watlington/index.shtml

 

 

Coaches didn't need sheds as any maintenance needed wasn't done by the shed staff.

 

 

Jason

Edited March 29 by Steamport Southport

[Andy Keane]

56 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Yes. Almost exclusively. Same goes for places like Watlington which also got a "carriage shed".

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watlington_and_Princes_Risborough_Railway

 

Realised there was no photos of the shed in that link!

 

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/w/watlington/index.shtml

 

 

Coaches didn't need sheds as any maintenance needed wasn't done by the shed staff.

 

 

Jason

So that corrugated shed at Watlington was for a steam rail motor?

[Steamport Southport]

29 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

So that corrugated shed at Watlington was for a steam rail motor?

 

Yes. 

 

The steam shed burnt down about the same time. Possibly deliberately. When hauled trains reappeared they used the carriage shed. That's why Watlington never got a new engine shed. 

 

 

Jason

[Andy Keane]

6 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Yes. 

 

The steam shed burnt down about the same time. Possibly deliberately. When hauled trains reappeared they used the carriage shed. That's why Watlington never got a new engine shed. 

 

 

Jason

Do you know of any others? I have read loads about Helston but nobody has ever mentioned before that the carriage shed was actually built for SRMs.

[Steamport Southport]

9 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

Do you know of any others? I have read loads about Helston but nobody has ever mentioned before that the carriage shed was actually built for SRMs.

 

Most of it is before my era of interest I'm afraid. I think the details are in the book about earlier engine sheds.

 

Not the 1947 book, this one. I'll see if I can find my copy and have a look.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/G-W-Engine-Sheds-1837-1947-Rev/dp/086093019X

 

It does seem that they did want to keep them away from the locomotives as some sheds seem to have had a lean-to added for the railmotors. Probably to keep them clean.

 

 

Jason

[Andy Keane]

2 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Most of it is before my era of interest I'm afraid. I think the details are in the book about earlier engine sheds.

 

Not the 1947 book, this one. I'll see if I can find my copy and have a look.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/G-W-Engine-Sheds-1837-1947-Rev/dp/086093019X

 

It does seem that they did want to keep them away from the locomotives as some sheds seem to have had a lean-to added for the railmotors. Probably to keep them clean.

 

 

Jason

I have that book. I will go read it more closely!

thanks

[Steamport Southport]

Quick Google and this pops up. Which suggests there was only two purpose built SRM sheds at Chalford and Southall.

 

https://didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/zrailmotor93/shed/shed.html

 

I would still think that the ones at Helston and Watlington were used for that purpose, even if that designation wasn't official. Otherwise everywhere would have had carriage sheds.

 

 

 

Jason

Edited March 29 by Steamport Southport

[Andy Keane]

27 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Quick Google and this pops up. Which suggests there was only two purpose built SRM sheds at Chalford and Southall.

 

https://didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/zrailmotor93/shed/shed.html

 

I would still think that the ones at Helston and Watlington were used for that purpose, even if that designation wasn't official. Otherwise everywhere would have had carriage sheds.

 

 

 

Jason

Indeed, it makes sense to me. I notice Looe had a carriage shed right next to the engine shed that looks much the same. If the motors warranted sheds at Chalfont and Southall then why not other places. I cannot think the Helston SRM would have been sent to Penzance or Laira every night.

[Miss Prism]

4 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

If the motors warranted sheds at Chalfont and Southall then why not other places.

 

I think SRMs at other places shared space in normal loco sheds. At Stourbridge, that part of the shed became, in effect, 'the steam railmotor shed'. This was done, in part, to prevent SRM interiors from getting too soiled from normal locos.

 

https://didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/shopimages/railmotor_93_history_02.jpg

 

 

[Andy Keane]

Another reason for my now thinking the Helston carriage shed was for motors is the full length vent in the roof. Why would that have been done just for carriages?

Watering these motors also seems to have needed specialist facilities - the drawings on the GWS site shows hydrants inside the sheds at Southall and Catford. They also mention coaling from adjacent sidings, which again Helston had down there. If the motors were not serviced at that end of Helston station it is not obvious that running them into the main engine shed siding would have been very convenient.

All very interesting - I am now pondering if I need an ash pit at that end!

[Harlequin]

3 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

Another reason for my now thinking the Helston carriage shed was for motors is the full length vent in the roof. Why would that have been done just for carriages?

Watering these motors also seems to have needed specialist facilities - the drawings on the GWS site shows hydrants inside the sheds at Southall and Catford. They also mention coaling from adjacent sidings, which again Helston had down there. If the motors were not serviced at that end of Helston station it is not obvious that running them into the main engine shed siding would have been very convenient.

All very interesting - I am now pondering if I need an ash pit at that end!

 

As far as I can tell, the Lewis SRM book doesn't say anything about special facilities away from the main sheds.

 

It does confirm that in 1911 No.96 was shedded at Helston (there were earlier allocations to Helston) and that it ran this weekday service:

Helston, Gwinear Road, Redruth, Camborne, Truro, Camborne, Redruth, Penzance, Redruth, Gwinear Road, Helston (and Mondays, Fridays and Saturdays added one final return trip Gwinear Road, Helston).

 

Lewis also doesn't say anything conclusive about coaling the SRMs. Either shovelling coal onto the floor or using sacks to transfer coal into the bunker. A while back there was talk on here about short platforms that can be seen in some photos that were obviously not for passengers and the thought was that they were designed for coaling SRMs - possibly using large wicker baskets.

 

Thinking about that, I have a vague recollection that you thought there was something odd about the coaling facilities at Helston - am I right??? Could that have been changed to suit the SRM as well? Maybe the change of the shed connection from the run round loop to the platform line could also be partly explained by the need for the SRM to run in there for coaling?

 

Edited March 30 by Harlequin

[Steamport Southport]

2 hours ago, Harlequin said:

 

As far as I can tell, the Lewis SRM book doesn't say anything about special facilities away from the main sheds.

 

It does confirm that in 1911 No.96 was shedded at Helston (there were earlier allocations to Helston) and that it ran this weekday service:

Helston, Gwinear Road, Redruth, Camborne, Truro, Camborne, Redruth, Penzance, Redruth, Gwinear Road, Helston (and Mondays, Fridays and Saturdays added one final return trip Gwinear Road, Helston).

 

Lewis also doesn't say anything conclusive about coaling the SRMs. Either shovelling coal onto the floor or using sacks to transfer coal into the bunker. A while back there was talk on here about short platforms that can be seen in some photos that were obviously not for passengers and the thought was that they were designed for coaling SRMs - possibly using large wicker baskets.

 

Thinking about that, I have a vague recollection that you thought there was something odd about the coaling facilities at Helston - am I right??? Could that have been changed to suit the SRM as well? Maybe the change of the shed connection from the run round loop to the platform line could also be partly explained by the need for the SRM to run in there for coaling?

 

 

I would suggest more likely buckets than sacks. We used to coal our Sentinel that way where the bunker was in the casing forward of the cab. One man could do it, but was easier if there was two. One filling the bucket and one "up top" tipping them in.

 

 

 

Jason

[rprodgers]

16 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

So that corrugated shed at Watlington was for a steam rail motor?

Did SRMs ever run on the Watlington branch?

[Steamport Southport]

8 minutes ago, rprodgers said:

Did SRMs ever run on the Watlington branch?

 

Yes. In the link I posted earlier from 1906.

 

Quote

From May 1900, an additional round trip was made on the branch, making four journeys a day. Attention was given by the GWR throughout its system to the need for more frequent local passenger trains, calling at an increased number of stopping places, while reducing operating costs. This led to the widespread implementation of motor trains and auto trains, and station halts with minimal facilities.

 

Railmotor trains were introduced from 1 September 1906, and these were superseded by auto-trains.

 

 

It doesn't give a date of when they stopped using them.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watlington_and_Princes_Risborough_Railway

 

 

Jason

Edited March 30 by Steamport Southport

[Andy Keane]

4 hours ago, Harlequin said:

 

As far as I can tell, the Lewis SRM book doesn't say anything about special facilities away from the main sheds.

 

It does confirm that in 1911 No.96 was shedded at Helston (there were earlier allocations to Helston) and that it ran this weekday service:

Helston, Gwinear Road, Redruth, Camborne, Truro, Camborne, Redruth, Penzance, Redruth, Gwinear Road, Helston (and Mondays, Fridays and Saturdays added one final return trip Gwinear Road, Helston).

 

Lewis also doesn't say anything conclusive about coaling the SRMs. Either shovelling coal onto the floor or using sacks to transfer coal into the bunker. A while back there was talk on here about short platforms that can be seen in some photos that were obviously not for passengers and the thought was that they were designed for coaling SRMs - possibly using large wicker baskets.

 

Thinking about that, I have a vague recollection that you thought there was something odd about the coaling facilities at Helston - am I right??? Could that have been changed to suit the SRM as well? Maybe the change of the shed connection from the run round loop to the platform line could also be partly explained by the need for the SRM to run in there for coaling?

 

Thanks Phil. Clearly to shed a motor at Helston it must have been in the carriage shed, though provided they ran engine at the back they could have been fuelled and watered and had their ash dumped on the engine shed siding in its later configuration - and that's the story I am going with as I have never seen any trace of hydrants or ash pits at the carriage shed end, though I do plan a gas wagon to be down there to service both SRMs and ordinary carriages. What, I wonder would they have done about an autocoach / loco pairing? perhaps separated them to shed overnight with the loco going one way and the carriage the other?