Sandhole Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Shameless self plug while on the subject of Pullmans and Gresley Bogies. The following picture may be useful for anyone wanting to do a 'VSOE' to any of their 1923 or forthcoming 1928 pullmans. Yep the window spacing for Ibis is not correct, but Rule 1 and its something a little different. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_07_2012/blogentry-4226-0-82649900-1341404619.jpg Nice conversion. I, like you, like something different! On a completely different tack. Love the Mk1,s? under tarpaulins!! Reminds my of travelling past Preston Park in the 60,s and seeing Pullman cars outside their works. Tidy! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Marshall Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I've a number of pictures of the Tees-Tyne Pullman with the metro-cammell stock (Colour Rail, so copyright, unfortunately) hauled by BR green A4s. All consist of 6 of these cars (sometimes the Hadrian Bar is identifiable) with 2 of the 1928 brakes. No Gresley bogies under any of these. Like one of the earlier posts, I'd love to see these in N Gauge - a pair of brakes to go with the Farish metro-cammells would be great. Or a full rake of 1928 stock behind 60147? Eight vehicles seems to be usual in all-1928 rake stock too, if pictures of 60009 on the Royal Border Bridge, 60081 at Arthington, 60126 at Grantshouse and 60139 at York are typical. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOTTODDY Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 For anyone looking for an excellent description of the standard K type and all steel K type pullmans I recommend Anthony Ford's recent books on the subject. For so few vehicles one would never imagine such a complicated history existed! John Fitton I fully support he reading of Anthony Ford's books as they contain so much detail of individual cars, their history and lives, pre and post WW2. I would also recommend joining the Pullman Society where you will find like minded people sharing all Pullman news and historical data. There is some mis-infomation lurking in some older publications, so reading up of as many sources as you can, is a good idea. Tod Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiel Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 A quick, and very possibly dumb question. I have looked through the second and third volumes of Anthony Ford's books on the K-Class Pullmans, but only quickly. Sadly my studies take priority for my reading at the moment.Would the K-Class cars being released by Hornby later this year, with the distinctive underframe detail, fit in rakes with the previous Hornby Pullmans which have the angled underframe trusses? I haven't seen any evidence for such mixed rakes in photos, but that may well say more about my research than the actuality of of history.I am modelling a fictional British Rail station around 1960, with both Eastern and Midland trains running (a bit like the Leeds and Wakefield areas). I know this puts me in the 'its fictional, you can run what you like territory', but I am looking for a little more realsim than that, although not such an accurate a rake as many on here. It be nice to have a rake that is not glaringly wrong though.Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Marshall Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 A quick, and very possibly dumb question. I have looked through the second and third volumes of Anthony Ford's books on the K-Class Pullmans, but only quickly. Sadly my studies take priority for my reading at the moment. Would the K-Class cars being released by Hornby later this year, with the distinctive underframe detail, fit in rakes with the previous Hornby Pullmans which have the angled underframe trusses? I haven't seen any evidence for such mixed rakes in photos, but that may well say more about my research than the actuality of of history. I am modelling a fictional British Rail station around 1960, with both Eastern and Midland trains running (a bit like the Leeds and Wakefield areas). I know this puts me in the 'its fictional, you can run what you like territory', but I am looking for a little more realsim than that, although not such an accurate a rake as many on here. It be nice to have a rake that is not glaringly wrong though. Jamie Jamie, Not a dumb question. 1960 was a transitional year - this is when the new Metro-Cammell "Mk 1" Pullman cars were built - they were intoduced from January 1961 - certainly on the Tees-Tyne Pullman from my reading and probably on the Yorkshire Pullman too, at about this time. The 1928 vehicles, as announced by Hornby, were used prior to this by the LNER and the ER of BR. After this only the brake vehicles were used on these trains, I think, as no new brakes were built. However, if you're bothered about Pullman names and car numbers, it's worth a bit more research, because some vehicles of this type ended up in other regions of BR. If you google "Pullman Cars", you may be able to find train consists for the Yorkshire Pullman, or the Queen of Scots - I certainly have for the TTP. Try "Pullman Car Services" and "Coupe News" - it's a while since I got the TTP information. The TTP sets in the early 1950s seem to have included a mix of 1928 built vehicles and some from the 1923-25 period. I don't think this is a reliable guide, however, for the dates you want. Photo evidence is vital, if you are concerned about accuracy. Try the Colour Rail website - you can search and it will return thumbnails, which you can look at to confirm relevance before you buy any image. Paul Bartlett's site may also have something, though I haven't looked for Pullmans on there myself. Regards, Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiel Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 (edited) Thanks RoyI have noticed it seems like a bit of a mine field for the dedicated modeller. I will try the links you suggested and see what comes up.I have looked at a few photos on the web and in Anthony Ford's books and using the trusses as a guide is always a problem as they tend to only be clearly visible for the first couple of carriages behi9nd the loco, or are just in shade from the camera angle. Anyway, your guide will give me some happy research - away from my studies (of which I am getting particularly sick at the moment). Thanks again. Jamie Edited February 7, 2015 by Jamiel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted February 8, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8, 2015 Yes, you can use the Hornby coaches in rakes that mix K-type (current) and all-steel K-type (to be released) cars. The sections towards the back of the two Ford volumes you refer to Jamie should tell you what you need to know. Then you will need to read the detailed chapters carefully to establish whether you need K-types with matchboard or plated over sides, original or later Pullman crests, names, numbers, 3rd class, 2nd class, no class, moved from one region to another, rebuilt from parlour to brake ... You may find it takes longer than you expect! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted April 13, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 13, 2015 is anyone that has done a bogie conversion able to show some illustrations? id love to do it to my vsoe rake to correct it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
clecklewyke Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) If anyone wants to run these lovely coaches without asking Mr Wonga for help (and regretting it later...) how about the Bradford portion of the Yorkshire Pullman? In steam days this was just two Pullman cars pulled by a small loco, typically a scruffy N1 0-6-2T or J6 0-6-0 and latterly an LMS 2-6-4T. Ian Edited April 13, 2015 by clecklewyke Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted April 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 13, 2015 If anyone wants to run these lovely coaches without asking Mr Wonga for help (and regretting it later...) how about the Bradford portion of the Yorkshire Pullman? In steam days this was just two Pullman cars pulled by a small loco, typically a scruffy N1 0-6-2T or J6 0-6-0 and latterly an LMS 2-6-4T. Ian Hi Ian, As well as your example above (3rd kitchen no. 44 standard K-type and 1st brake Catania 12-wheel) there was the Hull portion (1st kitchen Sybil standard K-type, 3rd parlour no. 84 All-steel K-type plus a teak full brake). In addition, there is the two-car Bradford portion of the Harrogate Sunday Pullman which used two cars from the Queen of Scots stock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 is anyone that has done a bogie conversion able to show some illustrations? id love to do it to my vsoe rake to correct it. No illustrations, sorry. too much risk in re-dismantling the car! The following is as I remember it from a few years ago, but seems to cover everything. No guarantees etc. Resources needed: 1x Pair Hornby heavy duty Gresley Bogies (two rows or rivets above axle box – don’t have p/n to hand – it is the bogie used under the buffet cars). 1x Pair Spare Pullman coupling cam (or appropriate sized styrene rod) 3mm (ish) plasticard or similar. Drill bit (1.5mm iirc) and pin chuck. Craft knife with curved blade. Thin flathead screwdriver to unclip Pullman, and levering things! Patience, and slight willingness to gamble, firm but gentle fingers, and an evening (or bits of three if using slower drying glue!). The work was as follows: Dismantle pullman (body, chassis, interior). Cut heatshrink on bogie wire, unsolder bogie electrical connections and unclip bogies from u/f Remove wheels from each bogie (keeping them in pairs and ensuring the wheels stay the right way round - one side of each the axle is electrically live). Remove metal contact from bogie underframe (it is held in by heated plastic - gently cut 'rivets' with knife (contact might be slightly distorted in this process) and remove metal contact, and its wire). Take Gresley bogies, Drill 1.5mm hole down centre of clip lug in Gresley bogie and through brake detail plate below. (might be 1mm - measure electircal wire and see) Remove wheels - bogie frames are 'stiff' so prising the wheels out needs to be done carefully, especially with brake hanger detail on underside, but is possible - lever bogie side frames outwards and push wheels out of bogie. (removing wheels after drilling allows you to drill downwards with bogie on wheels, to aviod damaging bogie brake detail) Feed in electrical pickup and wire, and glue in centre of strip (where previously attached to pullman bogie) with PVA to underside of bogie. Use tape/blutake (possibly on pickups either side of the glue) to hold while drying. Adjust tension of wipers to correct for any distortion during removal Insert wheels (the right way round) and check electrical connection. Get a pair of spare coupling cams, and cut off the round rod that fits in to the notch in the bogie, and usually connects the NEM pocket with the cam arm above it. Alternatively, use a bit of plastic dowell of similar diameter. Glue this item behind the rod on the NEM cam on the Pullman. This will ensure it engages with the recess on the Gresley bogie. I think polystyrene cement was OK for this job. Pass wire through underframe and resolder to pullman electrics. Put Gresley bogie lug through underframe - it is not long enough to clip in. You need to cut two strips of thick plasticard to glue across the top of the lug (either side of the wire) to hold the bogie in place. Trickiest part of the conversion, as this securing member should be the right size and shape to hold the bogie while not restricting its swing, or forcing the body off true as the bogie rotates. Trial and error needed. I used PVA on this as well, which has not proved durable - epoxy might be better, polystyrene cement does not seem to work(??!). This said, these lugs might be unnecessary - the coach actually runs fine under gravity, with the tidied wires preventing the bogie from dropping out any distance when lifted from track. Hope this helps, happy to answer further questions. Obviously no promises it will work for the 1928 cars, although if the follow the same design patterns as the 1923 cars it should.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted June 18, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 18, 2015 Just a heads up, looks like these coaches are due next week according to the email I received from a certain Sheffield box-shifter this afternoon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted June 19, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 19, 2015 Preorder done. Lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted June 20, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 20, 2015 Seen in Kernow's newsletter that these are due soon as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted June 23, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 23, 2015 Kernow have received delivery of these. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Looking forward to seeing pics/reviews from those engaging with this first batch G-BOAF (waiting for BR 1960s examples to be released to match my 1923-built pullmans!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Pity they'll never matc the Bachman mk1 colours Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted June 24, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) Pity they'll never matc the Bachman mk1 colours No but they will match the far more numerous Hornby K-Type Pullmans produced previously. Who knows, Hornby may yet produce the Mk1 Pullmans too to really corner the market and then they will match. Edited June 24, 2015 by Hilux5972 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 My distant memory recall says that the "wooden" Pullmans on the ECML were a darker brown than the Mk1 Pullmans anyway, something we trainspotters of the day commented on at the time. Perhaps we had better do a survey by asking those trainspotters on Gilbert's Peterborough North platform? Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Hornby doing mk1'swhile I've got 16 Bachmanns no thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 My distant memory recall says that the "wooden" Pullmans on the ECML were a darker brown than the Mk1 Pullmans anyway, something we trainspotters of the day commented on at the time. Colour photos of the sets transitioning from largely QoS cars to the Mk1s show a colour difference between the cars in both the brown and the cream. The older cars were a warmer tone. Between the Bachmann and the Hornby it's the other way around though... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Colour photos of the sets transitioning from largely QoS cars to the Mk1s show a colour difference between the cars in both the brown and the cream. The older cars were a warmer tone. Between the Bachmann and the Hornby it's the other way around though... i'v e a pair of cheap steel sided 1925 brakes- I've sprayed the cream to match the Bachmann Mk1's. Tricky but do able. The roof I've applied matt 67. when I've courage I may tackle the sides. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opelsi Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Well I am looking forward to Hornby's latest incarnation of the Pullmans very much. That will give me a full rake of each of: Hornby Matchboard with white roofs Hornby Steel with Grey roofs Hornby Twelve Wheelers Bachmann Metro-Camm Mk1's (Cream & Umber) Not to mention: Bachman Blue Pullman (Blue Nose) Hornby Brighton Belle (Blue-Grey) Hornby Observation Car Hornby Churchill BG I think I might be able to muster dedicated Pullman running days once the layout is complete! Now - what locos can I possible find on shed to haul that lot? Suggestions on a postcard please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Well I am looking forward to Hornby's latest incarnation of the Pullmans very much. That will give me a full rake of each of: Hornby Matchboard with white roofs Hornby Steel with Grey roofs Hornby Twelve Wheelers Bachmann Metro-Camm Mk1's (Cream & Umber) Not to mention: Bachman Blue Pullman (Blue Nose) Hornby Brighton Belle (Blue-Grey) Hornby Observation Car Hornby Churchill BG I think I might be able to muster dedicated Pullman running days once the layout is complete! Now - what locos can I possible find on shed to haul that lot? Suggestions on a postcard please. You'll need to apply Rule 1 to mix some of these latest coaches with your other stock, as the unnamed coaches carry 'Third Class' side markings, fixing them to the 1930s to mid 1950s, when BR changed third class to second class. For that reason I'm hoping Hornby release the later markings in the next run, similarly to the second version of the Brighton Belle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Had my box arrive from Cornwall. Oddly there was no r4660 - did that not make the boat? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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