Peco Point Motor Questions

[BG John]

I'm just starting on a new layout using a baseboard designed for a different project that didn't happen. So, of course, some of the baseboard framing is in the wrong place! I'm using Peco 00 Code 75 track and points, and aiming to use Peco point motors. I have a few questions:

 

1) If I use PL-10E motors with extended pins attached to PL-9 mounting bases, are the pins long enough to work through a 16mm baseboard with 1/8" (3.2mm ish) cork underlay?

 

2) I've got a few old PL-10s that I can mount under the points and cut a big hole in the baseboard. Do these get affected by gunge from ballasting and track painting, and in operation? How easy are they to remove for repair/replacement, as they will disappear within the thickness of the baseboard top? One may be in an area where the baseboard is reinforced and is 26mm ish thick!

 

3) What's the height of the PL-11 side mounted motor? Will it fit under a 4mm scale platform? It might solve one of my problems.

 

Alternatively, any simple suggestions for using my collection of ancient H&M point motors instead? This is supposed to be a quick and straightforward project, so no complicated ideas!

 

This is the beast in question, built from an old plywood wardrobe:

 

 

[66C]

Hi John

 

1)  The pins should be plenty long enough based on those I have used in the past.

 

2)  If you do not want to buy more PL-9s, mount the Peco solenoids under the board by bending the fixing lugs outward and then fix in place with a screw and washer.  The operating pin goes through a slot in the board as for the PL-9s.  If these solenoids do not have the extended pins, you can easily extend them with some fine bore tube and wire.

 

3)  An alternative to the side mounting solenoids is to use one of the PL-9 mounted motors with wire in tube from a convenient location.  Wire in tube works fine with the Peco solenoids.

 

If you want to use your H&M solenoids, make a crank from coat hanger wire for the shaft, cross cut into the end with a junior hacksaw, solder some brass wire for an arm, bend the end of the arm down about 1" from the shaft to fit into the operating hole in a Peco point  and fit through a hole in the baseboard.  Only the top of the shaft and the wire are visible so reasonably discrete.

 

An alternative if you still have the crank that came with the H&M is to fix a spring wire (piano wire) through both the fixed crank and the extra crank (secure on the extra crank and simply feed through the fixed crank to give a little flexibility so that one end of the wire protrudes through a slot in the baseboard to the point's tie bar - very discrete and easier to do than describe.

 

I have used all of the above at some time in the past with good results.

 

Regards.

[bike2steam]

To answer question 3, yes. I have some PL-11 point motors on my layout which I'm building at the moment. One sits under the platform the other side of the white patch, above which is a lifting section to the platform top, the nearest end of which you can see has a miss-match where it has been replaced slightly out of position. Sorry pic is little out of focus

[crompton 33]

B G john. There are Extension pin kits to convert Peco PL 10 to PL10E. They are on ebay under peco point motors.

[newbryford]

Hi BGJ,

It's quite easy to fit motors direct to peco points - it's something I try to do as much as possible, because extra linkages and screws are extra things to go wrong. (Although on Springfield Jn, we have a lot of top mounted motors because underboard access isn't good.)

 

See here for a method of keeping the point motor clear from ballast.

 

I've had to replace a couple over the years and it's fairly easy process. The key is to have a bright light above the point when fitting a new motor from underneath. Also make sure the hole is a decent size in the first place as it can easily be covered by the brown paper.

 

 I had to swap one at Wakefield ex the other weekend and it took 5 minutes, including removing the old one and re-soldering the wires to the new motor.

 

Cheers,

Mick

Edited December 14, 2014 by newbryford

[BG John]

Thanks everyone. It looks like all my options are practical, so I'll probably do a mixture of them.

Edited December 14, 2014 by BG John

[BG John]

An alternative if you still have the crank that came with the H&M is to fix a spring wire (piano wire) through both the fixed crank and the extra crank (secure on the extra crank and simply feed through the fixed crank to give a little flexibility so that one end of the wire protrudes through a slot in the baseboard to the point's tie bar - very discrete and easier to do than describe

I used this method with the H&Ms in their previous life with handbuilt EM points, and it worked pretty well. Being a cheapskate, I'm tempted to do it this way, but having failed dismally to get any of the other layouts I've planned in the last couple of years started, I think shoving a Peco motor where it's designed to go will be more likely to happen!

[BG John]

To answer question 3, yes. I have some PL-11 point motors on my layout which I'm building at the moment. One sits under the platform the other side of the white patch, above which is a lifting section to the platform top, the nearest end of which you can see has a miss-match where it has been replaced slightly out of position. Sorry pic is little out of focus

Like yours, the platform is in front of the track, so it wouldn't be visible. I just need to think of the best way to make an invisible access for it. It seems so much simpler to get something running quickly, so I'm tempted.

[BG John]

Hi BGJ,

It's quite easy to fit motors direct to peco points - it's something I try to do as much as possible, because extra linkages and screws are extra things to go wrong. (Although on Springfield Jn, we have a lot of top mounted motors because underboard access isn't good.)

 

See here for a method of keeping the point motor clear from ballast.

I'd thought of that, so it's good to see it working for someone else. If they're easy to replace, it does seem the simplest option, but not where there's baseboard framing below, as I'd have to lift the track to get it out! Unless I cut a slot in the framing big enough to drop it into. The board is built like a brick version of those things that used to be at the bottom of the garden, so should be able to stand it! I wonder if I can get enough depth with my router.

[BG John]

If I attach the PL-10E to the PL-12X Adaptor Base under the baseboard, rather than the PL-9 Mounting Plate, presumably it could be used to operate a micro-switch.

 

It looks like there will only be two points where the framing is in the way, and I'll need something different.

[bike2steam]

Like yours, the platform is in front of the track, so it wouldn't be visible. I just need to think of the best way to make an invisible access for it. It seems so much simpler to get something running quickly, so I'm tempted.

If you do, may I make a suggestion, mount them similar to the way this one is done in the image below, not as Peco suggest. If you do, you will find the operation more efficient, and reliable.

[BG John]

I've decided to move the station building along a bit, or put some other building on the platform, so I can hide the standard motor inside it.

 

I think I've got it all worked out now, so I can order the rest of the bits, and keep myself amused at Christmas! Reminding myself what switches and wiring I need to operate them with a capacitor discharge unit is the next challenge, as it's so long since I last did it! I've got an assortment of switches and bits of control panels from previous layouts, so am hoping there's something I can reuse or adapt.

[BG John]

The bits arrived today. I bought PL-12X adaptor Bases for all the motors, and will mount all I can under the baseboard, with a few on top hidden under buildings. I've got plenty of very ancient microswitches, that should be easy to connect to the adaptor bases.

 

Thanks for your help everyone.

Edited December 18, 2014 by BG John

[Sasquatch]

Hi John

 

Not a fan of Peco solenoids but used up my old stock in the fiddle yards where there's not any ballast. The best improvement to peco track is to remove all the peco point motor mounts! I prefer  Gaugemaster SEEP motors which can be hot glued in place, couldn't be simpler!!

 

 The paper method Mick provided a link to in post #5 works well for keeping direct mounted Peco motors clean.

 

The robust H&M motors should have an angle crank, which I have used to solve switching problems on more then one occasion. Mount the motor under the board adjacent   to the tie bar by drilling a hole for the crank and marry the motor to it, then lob off the plastic pin on that end of the tie bar and drill a hole in the end of  it and bend up a piece of stiff wire to fit between the crank and tie bar.

 

Even resorted to this and it works fine.

 

Regards Shaun

 

 

[BG John]

I've got a stock of H&Ms that are nearly 40 years old to reuse on future layouts. I used a wire with two cranks to operate the points on this layout, built using 85a Models EM point kits when I was very young! On the new layout I'm using Peco to keep it simple, although I'll be using a SEEP on a catch point that wasn't on the original plan.

 

 

 

[Sasquatch]

When I lived in Brighton about 15 years ago now I just happened across 10 in a second hand store, brand new in their boxes. 24 Quid the lot! Beware though they are a bit powerful and can break the tabs that hold peco point blades in the tie bar! This has happened to me twice now! The arrangement pictured above allows for a certain amount of springing which will hopefully avoid this problem. The point in question is at the back of Goathland on the siding that leads behind the water tower so doesn't get used much.

 

Shaun    

[Gwiwer]

60 powered points on the layout (plus five in the yard which are hand-worked) all in the hands of Peco kit.  The surface mounted motors are fine provided you can get them perfectly square and level.  They don't much like pulling / pushing across angles either horizontal or vertical.  

 

PL10E (long pin) I personally found tricky to align and due to the play on the pin the throw wasn't always reliably 100%.  But they work.  The pins are plenty long enough; two of mine were fitted to the baseboard beneath points on a riser board some 2cms (plus 12mm board thickness and a layer of cork) above base level.  Once I got the alignment correct they were fine.

 

Regular PL10 motors clip in to Peco points and are automatically aligned to perfection.

 

My trick to prevent ingress of ballast, weathering materials and dirt is to cover the hole with two L-shaped pieces of card which are then glued to the board and ballasted over.  That reduced the hole to no more than the minimal slot required for the pin to throw.  

 

I've had to replace about half the surface mounts over an eight year period but never a PL10.  The surface ones are relatively easy to replace though it helps if you wire them through a connector block rather than hard-wire right back to the panel.  Peco motors don't suit everyone, particularly those who want a realistic slow movement, but for me with points up to 7.5 metres from the panel they throw reliably and with just enough click that I can be assured of the movement without having to take a hike and check!

Edited January 12, 2015 by Gwiwer

[bike2steam]

 The surface mounted motors are fine provided you can get them perfectly square and level.  They don't much like pulling / pushing across angles either horizontal or vertical.  

Yep, I'd go along with that, plus a more positive fixing to the baseboard than using the method as suggested by Peco.

 

H&M point motors are ok, but a bit 'fierce', I've found that some times the Peco tie-bars need replacing with copper-clad after having been pulled apart by the point-motor even with using correct crank settings, and omega-loop.

 

Have found Seep point-motors a little frail, especially under heavy use on exhibition layouts, even more so those with the built in polarity switch which I rate as a poor as the Peco PL-10 motor mounted ( is it PL-13 ?) polarity switch.

Edited January 12, 2015 by bike2steam

[Sasquatch]

Yep, I'd go along with that, plus a more positive fixing to the baseboard than using the method as suggested by Peco.

 

H&M point motors are ok, but a bit 'fierce', I've found that some times the Peco tie-bars need replacing with copper-clad after having been pulled apart by the point-motor even with using correct crank settings, and omega-loop.

 

Have found Seep point-motors a little frail, especially under heavy use on exhibition layouts, even more so those with the built in polarity switch which I rate as a poor as the Peco PL-10 motor mounted ( is it PL-13 ?) polarity switch.

Didn't think of replacing the tie bar. Good suggestion.

Yes that PL13 switch is a poor piece of kit, that's what made me switch to the SEEPs. I power mine with 24Volts @ 1amp through a Gaugemaster CDU. This arrangement will also throw two at a time!

 

On my friends layout we used the surface mount Peco motors, his choice which made me happy when it came to fitting them up for him. Nice and easy!!

 

Regards Shaun

[BG John]

The very first point motor to be fitted is right where there's a join in the baseboard top that I reinforced underneath, and even the extended Peco motors won't reach if mounted underneath! If the extended rod was on the other side of the motor, I could mount it underneath the point, and it would stick out far enough to operate a microswitch. Has anyone tried driving it through to do this, or will I end up with a bent armature?

 

I can get round this in other ways, but hitting it with a hammer is nice and simple, as long as it won't break anything!

 

[Mike Mackay]

Like some others, I found that some PL-13 switches could be problematic with PL-10E motors - in my case mounted under 1/2 inch plywood with a thin cork roadbed.  I eventually concluded that too much play in the motor armature was conspiring with sticky switches to limit the throw at the switch.  In one case, I replaced the motor, but otherwise I have been able to fix the problem by disassembling the switch, retensioning and (very!) lightly lubricating the slider with teflon grease, and filing out the slot in the PC board a bit to get a longer throw.

 

Those that have had this treatment have been working fine for several months now.

 

Good luck,  Mike

[Sasquatch]

The very first point motor to be fitted is right where there's a join in the baseboard top that I reinforced underneath, and even the extended Peco motors won't reach if mounted underneath! If the extended rod was on the other side of the motor, I could mount it underneath the point, and it would stick out far enough to operate a microswitch. Has anyone tried driving it through to do this, or will I end up with a bent armature?

 

I can get round this in other ways, but hitting it with a hammer is nice and simple, as long as it won't break anything!

 

DSCF3695.JPG

Best thing to do would be to chisel or rout a hole to accommodate the switch machine, then you know there'll be no problems.

The alternative could be to use one of those H&M motors with the extended crank mounted to the side of the tie bar! How thick are we talking here? looks like 30mm at least.....

If the extended crank isn't long enough you could hash one up from brass rod with a home made crank from scrap brass fret soldered to it!!

 

Hope this all makes sense

Regards Shaun.

[stewartingram]

The times I've promised to do this and haven't got round to it!

I have a possible solution with the mounting base I make for SEEP motors? They are quite a pain to locate, and I also add proper microswitches. I'm on a rest period from work at the moment; I have an important gasket change to do on the car tomorrow, but asap after that I will take some pics and post tem, they might help?

 

Stewart

[Daveglew]

Has anyone replaced (rather than extend) the Peco pins as the extension kits from Peco seem expensive when you have a lot to use. If so, what gauge wire did you use as a replacement pin?

[Daveglew]

Has anyone replaced (rather than extend) the Peco pins as the extension kits from Peco seem expensive when you have a lot to use. If so, how did you do it and what gauge wire did you use as a replacement pin?

Edited December 26, 2017 by Daveglew