Henley-on-Thames - GWR in the 1930's

[gwrrob]

Great to see a manufacturer taking an interest in the relevant threads for potential sales.  Feel free @rapidoandy to join Accurascale's @McC on ANTB too.

[checkrail]

On 26/02/2022 at 18:47, Neal Ball said:

But then I feel guilty if I don’t support a manufacturer who is producing something for the GWR… if we don’t buy this time, does that mean they won’t bother offering future models…..

And on that basis I'll be ordering one too.  

[Coach bogie]

On 26/02/2022 at 18:47, Neal Ball said:

 

 

But then I feel guilty if I don’t support a manufacturer who is producing something for the GWR… if we don’t buy this time, does that mean they won’t bother offering future models…..

 

I agree with your view. I have supported manufacturers by buying items I do not really need, some of which are still in the box. The last "supportive" purchase" being a Gas Turbine which has been run in only and is, well I am not sure where it is. I will buy an Accurascale Manor which I really do not need and what Stephenson's rocket is doing in the West Country, has yet to be justified.

 

I will support Rapido with the Loriet. As both numbers are being made, I am tempted to buy both, though I have a challenge with pre-orders at the moment- Over the weekend, my Wife's promotion has been confirmed requiring a three year move to Brisbane in six weeks time. Deliveries will have to go to my son.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Bulwell Hall]

22 hours ago, rapidoandy said:

We do look an awful lot at the metrics and sales for items when we decide what to produce in the future. I can't say what the statistics will show as it is too early but if the consensus is 'I have enough and don't want another' then we will have to think very carefully about future releases where a rtr or kit item is available (which for Western stuff seems to cover quite a lot). There are certainly more items available for the GWR against some other regions etc. Generally we have found people do want to own the best versions on the market - but if that doesn't pan out then we will have to re-evaluate our thoughts. It is complicated because it does involve Titfield (the primary reason to do it) but if does show that GWR modellers are happy with things that are already produced that would be interesting.

 

Regarding the interior - well it didn't take a lot of effort to include so we thought why not. We are also looking at making the first (as far as I'm aware) RTR models with the correct two tone interior colour scheme. 

 

Well there is one modeller here who most enthusiastically welcomes the production of the best versions that are available.  The Rapido model is streets ahead of the previously available Toads - and even a significant improvement on the most recently released 20ton Toad from the red box team. The Rapido models are to be thoroughly welcomed in moving standards forward - otherwise we would all still be stuck with the ugly old Hornby Dublo or Triang Toads.  It is to be hoped that the negative comments on here do not discourage Rapido from producing state of the art versions of already existing models otherwise things will just stay as they are.  I do believe that the comments here are from a vocal but very small number of individuals and that the vast (silent) majority of purchasers will vote with their wallets and support Rapido's enterprise.  I for one am thoroughly enjoying the announcements from the newcomers who are raising standards for GWR modellers, especially the Manor, Siphons and now these lovely Toads.  I do look forward to a range of GW open wagons and covered vans (Minks) to the same standards - as has already been done for the SECR.

 

Gerry

Edited February 28, 2022 by Bulwell Hall

[MrWolf]

Whilst I don't have a huge budget for my hobby, being an impoverished artist / motorcycle bodger who is supporting his better half through her postgraduate studies, I am most tempted to buy a couple of these Toads for my layout on purely practical grounds.

My existing fleet of brake vans runs to three. Which is more than enough for a single track branch line, but as others have said, the desire to upgrade to the most detailed version is a desire for accuracy, rather than wanting to prove that we own "This week's shirt".

What I have at present is a metal kit built outside framed Toad (Rule#1 applies as I believe that the GWR had junked them all by 1934.) The other two are old Mainline examples, which whilst they were great thirty odd years ago compared to other offerings, always had their deficiencies.

My point is this:

By the time I have stripped them down, carved off the handrails, bought wire, handrail knobs, (or made lugs) wheels, bearings, couplings, brake parts, buffers, paint, transfers and who knows what else...

 

£39 for something that I will only change the depot name on and add a light weathering to seems like beer money.

 

So I think that I will be having a clear out and saving myself a fair bit of time I can spend on the layout. A superior version of something that every GWR modeller needs is going to be a good seller.

[Coach bogie]

19 hours ago, rapidoandy said:

 Generally we have found people do want to own the best versions on the market - but if that doesn't pan out then we will have to re-evaluate our thoughts. It is complicated because it does involve Titfield (the primary reason to do it) but if does show that GWR modellers are happy with things that are already produced that would be interesting.

 

If this was something not already mass produced, It would not be a discussion point. As mentioned above you have moved forward standards to a much higher level but simple supply and demand application shows not everyone is going to throw away and start again. In my case, I have added lamps, guard, renamed etc. If I buy a Rapido, I will still have to do this all over again.

 

The GWR explosives van is an inspired  choice as the only alternatives is a 1960's vintage ex Dublo or a 1970's plastic kit.

 

As proved by the take up, of the Accuscale Manor and Siphon, GWR modellers will buy as it is decades since the last mass produce one was designed. The last, much improved, Hornby Toad only dates back to late 2018, If there had been a much improved Manor and Siphon introduced only a few years ago I doubt advance sales would be as high.

 

There is still much that can be attractive. Rapido has shown their like for 'one off'. I built a D&S LNER Dynamometer Car, but it did not stop me buying a Rapido one. which was a sell out, I believe. Could not the GWR version, no 7 also be a big seller? I know one kit producer who will not touch it, in case Rapido suddenly announce one.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[The Stationmaster]

22 hours ago, rapidoandy said:

We do look an awful lot at the metrics and sales for items when we decide what to produce in the future. I can't say what the statistics will show as it is too early but if the consensus is 'I have enough and don't want another' then we will have to think very carefully about future releases where a rtr or kit item is available (which for Western stuff seems to cover quite a lot). There are certainly more items available for the GWR against some other regions etc. Generally we have found people do want to own the best versions on the market - but if that doesn't pan out then we will have to re-evaluate our thoughts. It is complicated because it does involve Titfield (the primary reason to do it) but if does show that GWR modellers are happy with things that are already produced that would be interesting.

 

Regarding the interior - well it didn't take a lot of effort to include so we thought why not. We are also looking at making the first (as far as I'm aware) RTR models with the correct two tone interior colour scheme. 

I'm not so sure about there being more for the Western than anybody else.   Coaching stock wise - even with the latest announcement from a.n.other - the variety of usable WR passenger stock is definitely no better than for any other part of the network and perhaps worse than some.  As far as freight stock to modern standards is concerned just about everybody is in the same boat - there isn't all that much in the way of pre-nationalisation stuff.  But in r-t-r form all that exists for the Western to the latest standards are a couple of goods brake vans, no wagons at all although Bachmann's catalogue contains a number of older models of Western wagons some of which are really old.

 

But for the Western and others there are still plenty of wagons that have never appeared at all or which have not been done accurately and for which people will buy replacements - at the right price.  As far as the AA20 is concerned I shall be buying a couple from my local retailer because they suit my needs albeit with some renumbering etc - I believe that is called 'modelling' (of a sort).

 

What I would look to you doing on wagons for the Western (and indeed others - as you are already doing for the SR) is to go for some common opens and vans which had a long service life, a few detail variations that you can deal with by using separately applied parts on the production line to minimise tooling costs, a variety of livery options, and sell them in multi-packs of three (or even four) - all with different running numbers but common livery of course).   Multi-packs bring in more money at one stroke than selling individual wagons and you'll recover your investment more quickly than by selling individual wagons.  Just pick the right wagons

[Neal Ball]

3 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

.....What I would look to you doing on wagons for the Western (and indeed others - as you are already doing for the SR) is to go for some common opens and vans which had a long service life, a few detail variations that you can deal with by using separately applied parts on the production line to minimise tooling costs, a variety of livery options, and sell them in multi-packs of three (or even four) - all with different running numbers but common livery of course).   Multi-packs bring in more money at one stroke than selling individual wagons and you'll recover your investment more quickly than by selling individual wagons.  Just pick the right wagons

 

Well said Mike, we definitely need some 2022 standard open wagons; multi packs would clearly be a good way to go.

 

Thanks, Neal.

[longchap]

As Rapido seem to be supporting GWR modellers with this Toad release, which frankly surpasses the previous Hornby top toad, I’ve decided to also support Rapido in their enterprise and retire all pre-separate handrail Hornby versions, so am now a Rapido supporter.

 

I wonder what other GWR items may be lurking under Rapido's 'secret project' website items?

 

Bill

 

 

[Neal Ball]

You can't have enough....

 

1) Toad brake vans:

A variety of Toad brake vans at Henley-on-Thames; there are currently 5 Toad vans in service (l-r Hornby x2; Oxford x2 and 1 x Bachmann) in addition there are 2 x Ratio vans and an old K's. The last 3 don't get get run anymore.

 

 

 

That Oxford roof needs painting! 

 

It will be interesting to add a Rapido Toad to the fleet.

 

2) Turntable testing & locos:

I have been testing the turntable again and as a result have been using 11 locos around the turntable. Given the issues I have had with the TT you can't have enough testing and clearly that needs a lot of locos.

 

There are 15 more locos, that didn't make it out today, but I am happy that the TT seems to be working properly again.

 

 

 

 

Hopefully, tomorrow I can get back to some proper modelling and do some work on the carriages.

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by Neal Ball
photos changed

[longchap]

15 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

 

That Oxford roof needs painting! 

 

Yep, together with infilling the cut outs in the footboards for the centre axle boxes from their 6 wheeler. I think there may also be a central glazed shutter to replace as well.

 

Looks as if you've done some extensive TT testing there Neal and I'm so pleased to hear that all now seems well.

 

Best,

 

Bill

Edited February 28, 2022 by longchap

[gwrrob]

18 minutes ago, longchap said:

I wonder what other GWR items may be lurking under Rapido's 'secret project' website items

 

According to that list there are still eight unannounced items.

 

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/delivery-schedule/

[Neal Ball]

1 minute ago, longchap said:

 

Yep, together with infilling the cut outs in the footboards for the centre axle boxes for their 6 wheeler. I think there may also be a central glazed shutter to replace as well.

 

Looks as if you've done some extensive TT testing there Neal and I'm so pleased to hear that all now seems well.

 

Best,

 

Bill

 

Thanks very much Bill,

 

There remains a bit of work to do on the Toads and of course, maybe retiring that Bachmann one and replace it with the Rapido version..... Although Andy might not approve if I make it too work-stained!

 

This time in testing the TT I made notes about each loco as it went onto and off the table. One Pannier in particular didn't like road no 1.... but that might have more to do with the age of the loco more than anything else. 

 

One of the 61xx has an errant front pony truck, which I think might be the back to back. 

 

Away from the TT the 72xx had an aversion to some of the points with the front pony wanting to go elsewhere. I have added some lead shot to keep the wheel down on the track and hope that does the trick! 

 

Otherwise a very successful afternoon.

[Miss Prism]

21 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

That Oxford roof needs painting! 

 

Maybe slightly toned down, but I think you've got a very realistic spread of roof colours.

 

[longchap]

2 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

 

Thanks very much Bill,

 

There remains a bit of work to do on the Toads and of course, maybe retiring that Bachmann one and replace it with the Rapido version..... Although Andy might not approve if I make it too work-stained!

 

This time in testing the TT I made notes about each loco as it went onto and off the table. One Pannier in particular didn't like road no 1.... but that might have more to do with the age of the loco more than anything else. 

 

One of the 61xx has an errant front pony truck, which I think might be the back to back. 

 

Away from the TT the 72xx had an aversion to some of the points with the front pony wanting to go elsewhere. I have added some lead shot to keep the wheel down on the track and hope that does the trick! 

 

Otherwise a very successful afternoon.

 

In all seriousness, the testing process is a critical one, easily overlooked I suspect, until poor running of certain locos and other stock make themselves known.

 

The necessity of testing everything with all possible stock likely to use the layout, was impressed on me by my good friend Mr Dew of this parish. Being an RR&Co user, John needs as near total reliability for automated PC control. I will be testing my current branch extensively, before ballasting and suspect quite a few locos will need fettling. Hmm, so many locos!

 

Bill

[MrWolf]

55 minutes ago, longchap said:

 

I wonder what other GWR items may be lurking under Rapido's 'secret project' website items?

 

Bill

 

 

 

Cough. Metro. Cough. Cambrian 2-4-0. Cough. Six wheel low Siphon. Cough...

[longchap]

1 minute ago, MrWolf said:

 

Cough. Metro. Cough. Cambrian 2-4-0. Cough. Six wheel low Siphon. Cough...

 

Yes please Rapido! Cough. 517. Cough. Outside frame GWR brake van.

[MrWolf]

3 minutes ago, longchap said:

 

Yes please Rapido! Cough. 517. Cough. Outside frame GWR brake van.

 

I'm relying on a butchered Airfix 14xx and a D&S kit that's probably older than I am to fill those gaps at present!

[MrWolf]

29 minutes ago, longchap said:

 

In all seriousness, the testing process is a critical one, easily overlooked I suspect, until poor running of certain locos and other stock make themselves known.

 

The necessity of testing everything with all possible stock likely to use the layout, was impressed on me by my good friend Mr Dew of this parish. Being an RR&Co user, John needs as near total reliability for automated PC control. I will be testing my current branch extensively, before ballasting and suspect quite a few locos will need fettling. Hmm, so many locos!

 

Bill

 

Quite agree. Due to the er, eclectic mix shall we say.... of GWR locos and stock on my layout, I had to test everything before finally fixing the track down. Using long radius points was a big help, especially with things like the antiquated K's six wheel siphons on 3 link couplings.

 

BTW, due to the number of times you have said "t*rntable" in the last post Neal, you owe the chapel swear box £17-0/6d...

[ChrisN]

1 hour ago, MrWolf said:

 

Cough. Metro. Cough. Cambrian 2-4-0. Cough. Six wheel low Siphon. Cough...

 

Not wishing to interlope too much, but I assume you mean a westernised 2-4-0 Cambrian tank, and not the 2-4-0 Albion class tender loco.  I have a 3D print of the tank, but the chassis would be nice, and there are 3D prints of the Albion but again, and r-t-r chassis would be a great help.

 

I am sure they will bring out a six wheel Siphon, as I am about to embark on building one, when I have finished the four wheel version.

 

A 517 would be nice as well.

[MrWolf]

Actually, I did mean the 2-4-0 tender loco. Of course, the GWR also built their own and inherited some more  from the M&SWJR. I think that the kit for the tank engine is obsolete now too.

 

[Neal Ball]

2 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

 

Maybe slightly toned down, but I think you've got a very realistic spread of roof colours.

 

 

Thanks Miss Prism, I'm always wary when doing the roofs, I'm never always sure I've got it right.... I need to study some photos and get the right balance.

 

I guess I need a bit more smuts and smoke stained look.... possibly speckled, rather than uniform.

 

2 hours ago, longchap said:

 

In all seriousness, the testing process is a critical one, easily overlooked I suspect, until poor running of certain locos and other stock make themselves known.

 

The necessity of testing everything with all possible stock likely to use the layout, was impressed on me by my good friend Mr Dew of this parish. Being an RR&Co user, John needs as near total reliability for automated PC control. I will be testing my current branch extensively, before ballasting and suspect quite a few locos will need fettling. Hmm, so many locos!

 

Bill

 

So many locos indeed! - Clearly I couldn't get all of them out at the same time... there was only room for one more - on road 4.

 

I am trying to be more methodical about the testing this time... although I should also have made a separate list of things needing attention on the locos.... The vast majority have crew now, but the Earl needs some coal to better replicate the load in the tender and I need to get lamps on the majority of the locos.

 

2 hours ago, longchap said:

 

Yes please Rapido! Cough. 517. Cough. Outside frame GWR brake van.

 

Definitely a 517 Yes please.

 

1 hour ago, MrWolf said:

 

Quite agree. Due to the er, eclectic mix shall we say.... of GWR locos and stock on my layout, I had to test everything before finally fixing the track down. Using long radius points was a big help, especially with things like the antiquated K's six wheel siphons on 3 link couplings.

 

BTW, due to the number of times you have said "t*rntable" in the last post Neal, you owe the chapel swear box £17-0/6d...

 

I am intrigued what the 6d is for Lol

 

56 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

 

Not wishing to interlope too much, but I assume you mean a westernised 2-4-0 Cambrian tank, and not the 2-4-0 Albion class tender loco.  I have a 3D print of the tank, but the chassis would be nice, and there are 3D prints of the Albion but again, and r-t-r chassis would be a great help.

 

I am sure they will bring out a six wheel Siphon, as I am about to embark on building one, when I have finished the four wheel version.

 

A 517 would be nice as well.

 

Another vote for a 517.... have we turned into a Poll thread? 

 

Now the 517 would be an interesting loco to discuss.... as long as we get the right question; style; age; build etc. etc. However of course, it would also be a minefield for a manufacturer to get right - there were so many variations over the years..... Ideal motive power for the Mainline and City Toplights though.

[longchap]

17 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

Another vote for a 517.... have we turned into a Poll thread? 

 

Now the 517 would be an interesting loco to discuss.... as long as we get the right question; style; age; build etc. etc. However of course, it would also be a minefield for a manufacturer to get right - there were so many variations over the years..... Ideal motive power for the Mainline and City Toplights though.

 

Not a poll thread, just a like minded group of GWR enthusiasts. Quite right however about that minefield though. There are a good deal of variations with the 517. I rather feel I'll get down to building the two kits before any RTR version happens along, although one can dream!

 

Best,

 

Bill

[MrWolf]

18 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

I am intrigued what the 6d is for Lol 

 

For saying TT, which is to turntable as BS is to bullshi...

 

18 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

Another vote for a 517.... have we turned into a Poll thread? 

 

Now the 517 would be an interesting loco to discuss.... as long as we get the right question; style; age; build etc. etc. However of course, it would also be a minefield for a manufacturer to get right - there were so many variations over the years..... Ideal motive power for the Mainline and City Toplights though.

 

There's so many variations of 517, especially pre first world war. For me the most useful and the condition that seems to have lasted longest is outside axleboxes, large bunker and either a half cab or the 57xx style long roof.

 

[Neal Ball]

6 minutes ago, longchap said:

 

Not a poll thread, just a like minded group of GWR enthusiasts. Quite right however about that minefield though. There are a good deal of variations with the 517. I rather feel I'll get down to building the two kits before any RTR version happens along, although one can dream!

 

Best,

 

Bill

Thanks Bill.

 

3 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

 

For saying TT, which is to turntable as BS is to bullshi...

 

 

There's so many variations of 517, especially pre first world war. For me the most useful and the condition that seems to have lasted longest is outside axleboxes, large bunker and either a half cab or the 57xx style long roof.

 

So are we saying Turntable is a 1/- fine and TT is a 6d fine? …. Asking for a friend 

 

You are right about the 517 and it’s variations…. I’m not sure I have enough reference material to get even close to a definitive answer…. 
 

However, we know where to get the definitive answer(s): http://www.gwr.org.uk/no4-coup-tanks.html

 

This is a brief excerpt, by way of introduction: 

The 517 Class history is of almost unrivalled complexity – perhaps only the Metros approach them. Few 517s looked quite alike, and just about all of them changed radically in appearance over their lives, sometimes several times.

 

There are some lovely photos on the page as well. 
 

At this stage I have only scanned the page, suffice to say I was surprised that the 517 class were built at Wolverhampton and the Metro tanks at Swindon.