Class 800 - Updates

[jim.snowdon]

Which is of course exactly the same binary driving that caused the radiator issues with the HSTs in the mid-80s, with coolant top-ups required en route in high summer. What goes around, comes around.

And which was too much for the original Paxman engines.

 

Jim

[jamie92208]

Which is of course exactly the same binary driving that caused the radiator issues with the HSTs in the mid-80s, with coolant top-ups required en route in high summer. What goes around, comes around.

 

Wasn't some of that traced to someone cutting corners on ordering new gaskets and not using ones to the original spec, though the driving profile didn't help.

 

Jamie

[royaloak]

Which is of course exactly the same binary driving that caused the radiator issues with the HSTs in the mid-80s, with coolant top-ups required en route in high summer. What goes around, comes around.

I am sure lessons will be learned this time!   

 

Oh I was only joking!

Edited January 24, 2018 by royaloak

[royaloak]

Test running of IETs into Leeds commenced on 23rd January 2018, with a second run on 24th January.

 

Here is GWR liveried 800003 Queen Victoria leading sister 800004 Isambard Kingdom Brunel into Leeds with 5X61, 14.55 Doncaster IEP Depot to Leeds on 24th January.

 

800003 Leeds 24012018 - DSCF1696 RMWeb.jpg

 

 

Looking at that top picture my first thought was blimey they have installed a lot more track at Exeter, then I realised it was a 144 beside the Super Hitachi Intercity Train. 

[4630]

Looking at that top picture my first thought was blimey they have installed a lot more track at Exeter, then I realised it was a 144 beside the Super Hitachi Intercity Train.

It did look a little out of place in Leeds surrounded by an assorted mix of Northern, TransPennine Express and Virgin East Coast liveries and traction.

Edited January 24, 2018 by 4630

[Ken.W]

Sounds as if it's a bit lost...

....again

 

Had just left Newcastle with 15:59 KX, and at King Edward Bridge South Jn past a pair of GWR 5-car 800s heading north

 

On return, 20:00 from KX, past what seemed to be just one of them at Thirsk

Headlights are d*mm*d bright! 

[royaloak]

I see there was a 9 coach set on Laira this afternoon, it ran back to Stoke Gifford on this-

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K12948/2018/01/25/advanced

[Ron Ron Ron]

I see there was a 9 coach set on Laira this afternoon, it ran back to Stoke Gifford on this-

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K12948/2018/01/25/advanced

 

 

9-car 802 101 has been video'd running around on test, over this last couple of weeks.

 

 

 

.

[HillsideDepot]

Here's an interesting clip of two class 800s departing Reading side-by-side. The camera is on an electricly powered IET on the Up Relief, while the pair of units on the Up Main are running on diesel. 
 
We don't know how each was being driven, we don't know the signal aspects each train was running under, but assuming both had a clear road, and both were being driven in the usual manner for that stretch of line it is readily apparent that the diesel unit lacks performance after the initial burst of acceleration.

[JJGraphics]

Here's an interesting clip of two class 800s departing Reading side-by-side. The camera is on an electricly powered IET on the Up Relief, while the pair of units on the Up Main are running on diesel. 

 

We don't know how each was being driven, we don't know the signal aspects each train was running under, but assuming both had a clear road, and both were being driven in the usual manner for that stretch of line it is readily apparent that the diesel unit lacks performance after the initial burst of acceleration.

 

Which Speedometer App are you using on your phone?

 

John

[The Stationmaster]

Here's an interesting clip of two class 800s departing Reading side-by-side. The camera is on an electricly powered IET on the Up Relief, while the pair of units on the Up Main are running on diesel. 

 

We don't know how each was being driven, we don't know the signal aspects each train was running under, but assuming both had a clear road, and both were being driven in the usual manner for that stretch of line it is readily apparent that the diesel unit lacks performance after the initial burst of acceleration.

 

 

 

Interesting although of course we don't know which platforms the two trains had started from and that can make a significant difference, especially on the Relief Lines side of the station.

 

Interesting too that the unit of the Relief is beginning to outrun the one on the Main about 1500 yards (possibly a little less) from the points from which the two trains started - assuming both had been at the relevant stop markers.   I sincerely hope that the one running on electricity had crossed over to the Main (at Ruscombe?) before that GPS speed was recorded   

Edited January 28, 2018 by The Stationmaster

[HillsideDepot]

Which Speedometer App are you using on your phone?

 

John

It's not my video, John, so I can't answer that I'm afraid. 

[JJGraphics]

It's not my video, John, so I can't answer that I'm afraid. 

 

 

OK! Thanks

 

John

[sem34090]

Didn't realise 'Leccies were running to Didcot until I saw an 800 arrive on Saturday! I was more interested in WTC No.5 'Shannon', but took a photo of a 387 arriving from Paddington. These were terminating, so I assume the 166's that were going in and out were essentially connecting services to Oxford, so you now have to change at Didcot for Oxford? The 800 carried on, so where does the knitting end, and the coathanger become replaced by a diseasal engine?

 

Although I'm a (Mostly pre-grouping!) steam fan, I must say that the GWR 387's look a LOT better than the Southern Electrostars... the livery is just so much more refined, and even possibly reminiscent of the old BR/SR Green EMU's.

 

sem34090

[Zomboid]

The stopping trains (mostly) need a change at Didcot, but the fast Oxford trains (and Hereford etc) are 800 or HST operated so no change needed.

Presently the electric/ diesel change is just east of Didcot.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

The OHLE does extend just to the west of Didcot, otherwise the Cl.387s wouldn't be able to access the platforms.

But as Zomboid states, IETs pick-up the juice just east of Didcot (unless stopping at Didcot where they can pick-up whilst stopped in the station).

[Ron Ron Ron]

5-car Class 801 - 801101 - seen out on test yesterday (29th Jan).

 

DUxmIrRWsAA-v83.jpg

 

 

 

[Talltim]

http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-question/Commons/2018-01-25/125088/

 

Trains:Written question - 125088

Q

Asked by Diana Johnson

(Kingston upon Hull North)

[N]

Asked on: 25 January 2018

Department for Transport

Trains

125088

To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, what the (a) maximum capable speed and (b) average expected speed of the trains will be in (i) diesel and (ii) electric mode in optimal conditions of the new bi-modal trains to be introduced in the Virgin Trains East Coast franchise and the Hull Trains open access operator in 2018-19 to 2019-20.

 

A

Answered by: Joseph Johnson

Answered on: 30 January 2018

 

On the East Coast Mainline, Intercity Express Trains (IETs) are capable of achieving 125mph in electric traction and in diesel mode a balancing speed (determined by a number of variables such as track gradient and passenger load) of approximately 115mph under test conditions. The average speed of the IETs will be dependent on the route, stopping pattern and dwell times at stations; we therefore do not hold this information. With respect to Hull Trains, it is not possible to comment on the performance of any trains not procured by the Department.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Talltim

[D854_Tiger]

http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-question/Commons/2018-01-25/125088/

 

Hull Trains has ordered uprated class 802 IETs, almost an extra 200 bhp per power car, for the short bit of their route requiring diesel that hardly has any 100 mph capability let alone anything faster.

 

The main problem Hull Trains will have with their new diesels is all that dead weight they will have to lug around between Doncaster and Kings Cross.

 

Nearly half of Virgin's new IET fleet will be capable of 0 mph on diesel because they will be class 801 and not so encumbered by the flexibility of bi-mode.

[Zomboid]

801s do have to pointlessly drag one gen set around, so they'll do about 20mph on diesel (guessing...). And have all the disadvantages of a DMU but without any of the benefits.

[D854_Tiger]

801s do have to pointlessly drag one gen set around, so they'll do about 20mph on diesel (guessing...). And have all the disadvantages of a DMU but without any of the benefits.

I keep forgetting about that one power car, diesels add eight tonnes to the weight per power car.

[Ron Ron Ron]

801s do have to pointlessly drag one gen set around, so they'll do about 20mph on diesel (guessing...). And have all the disadvantages of a DMU but without any of the benefits.

 

 

There is nothing pointless about carrying the emergency generator .

It is there for "insurance" purposes in case of a loss of the overhead AC power supply, at the very least to provide hotel power and a limp home capability to allow trains to move to a safer location to disembark passengers..

 

If you think that pointless, then positioning "Thunderbird" rescue locos along the line would equally be pointless.

 

The already expensive cost to the network of a blocked line, is only going to increase over time, especially as the already busy lines are going to be pushed to maximum capacity by more train services.

Rescue loco's, by the very nature of how far away they are stationed, are already slower to get to the "scene of the crime".

With a more intensely used railway, their chances of getting through to the breakdown will only be reduced.

 

There are also the potential savings to be made from self shunting in depots.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if future stock will see more use of emergency battery and diesel power packs.

 

 

 

.

[Coryton]

There is nothing pointless about carrying the emergency generator .

It is there for "insurance" purposes in case of a loss of the overhead AC power supply, at the very least to provide hotel power and a limp home capability to allow trains to move to a safer location to disembark passengers..

 

If you think that pointless, then positioning "Thunderbird" rescue locos along the line would equally be pointless.

 

The already expensive cost to the network of a blocked line, is only going to increase over time, especially as the already busy lines are going to be pushed to maximum capacity by more train services.

Rescue loco's, by the very nature of how far away they are stationed, are already slower to get to the "scene of the crime".

With a more intensely used railway, their chances of getting through to the breakdown will only be reduced.

 

There are also the potential savings to be made from self shunting in depots.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if future stock will see more use of emergency battery and diesel power packs..

 

I think the emergency diesel is an excellent idea. (I read it adds 1% to the weight of the train...)

 

Having power for air conditioning and lighting even without overhead power will come in useful at times I'm sure.

 

And surely the "limp home" capacity also lets a train get through a dead section and then back onto full speed without having to disembark anyone?

 

Or - where high speed coasting would be used on an all-electric train - it can presumably get a bit of a boost from the engine and - more to the point - has power for on-board facilities and to make sure the brakes stay off.

 

Not so sure about shunting - I would have thought it would let them avoid the cost and hazards inherent in wiring up depots, but they don't seem to have gone that route (leaving a somewhat isolated section of wiring in Swansea, I believe).

[D854_Tiger]

I think the emergency diesel is an excellent idea. (I read it adds 1% to the weight of the train...)

 

Having power for air conditioning and lighting even without overhead power will come in useful at times I'm sure.

 

And surely the "limp home" capacity also lets a train get through a dead section and then back onto full speed without having to disembark anyone?

 

Or - where high speed coasting would be used on an all-electric train - it can presumably get a bit of a boost from the engine and - more to the point - has power for on-board facilities and to make sure the brakes stay off.

 

Not so sure about shunting - I would have thought it would let them avoid the cost and hazards inherent in wiring up depots, but they don't seem to have gone that route (leaving a somewhat isolated section of wiring in Swansea, I believe).

 

The problem with the ECML is that the wires come down rather more often than they really should, the WCML wiring is far more substantial and the GW electrification looks like it's been designed to stay up in a hurricane on Jupiter.

 

Then if a train becomes entangled in the wires I'm not sure it's going anywhere until it has been untangled, neither are any trains stuck behind and I'm not sure how diesel engines change that situation.

 

Hotel power is useful but suggests the railway accepts there are just going to have to be long delays, whenever the wires come down, and I'm not sure if that's entirely acceptable.

[Ron Ron Ron]

The GWML overhead knitting may be more robust, with less chance of de-wirement, but there is always the risk of power outages, or onboard electrical equipment failure.

No doubt in both these regards, much improved resilience has been built-in, but the risks will still be there, albeit reduced.

 

I am sure the calls for increased network resilience are only going to get louder in the coming years.

 

Emergency hotel power would be more than "useful" if temperatures are particularly low or high, not to mention emergency lighting and communications.

 

 

.