royaloak Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 You’d like to think that a transport correspondent would be able to master the brief and report accurately. Ah well, I guess he nonetheless enjoyed the expenses paid trip and Hitachi hospitality. I am sure the proffered 'hospitality' had absolutely no bearing on the way the report was written. For all I agree, it's maybe a bit unfair to single out this individual for that........ Coz they iz aul the same innum! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2018 For all I agree, it's maybe a bit unfair to single out this individual for that........ Not really - it is fairly typical of his reporting (although fortunately having moved away from the south area of BBC coverage a decade ago we no longer have to suffer him on a regular basis). 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
159220 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) Yes, they will have the same seats. It's GWR policy so that the whole fleet is the same from a passenger point of view. They couldn't alter the IEP trains, so decided to come into line with their own. As for "horrible" that is, of course, subjective: I did 188 miles on IET seats yesterday and found them fine - the seats at the conference I attended proved to be less so. First have indicated that, should they win the next Great Western Franchise(s), then part of their bid would be to change the interior spec, but any decision on that would obviously be down to the DfT. The first 800/0 was due to have its seat covering replaced a few weeks ago. First Group have brought the DfT to sense and agreed to replace all seat coverings from the canvas like material to a loop-pile as found in the class 387s, 158s, 150/2s and LA15. A mix of many very important passengers use the GW, passenger feedback has been as expected, maintenance of the coverings is proving expensive and I suspect there is a little bit of the old "Well you have allowed Virgin to choose their seat coverings over on Agility East!". As for the 802s, when introduced in July, they shall already have the new coverings. Sadly not the seat cushion though It was always the intention to change the seat coverings, I was told this on the 16th October 2017, but like with all PFI contracts, lawyers etc take a long time! It is not clear though who is paying for the 'exchange'. FOI request anyone? Reportedly 800012 already has different style in first class. 800024/25 were the expected first units, but they entered service in the DfT spec seat coverings. As for seat cushions, we shall have to wait until the new franchise to be tendered, as nothing shall be done during the direct award period (expected until 2023). And actually, ergonomically I rather like the seats. But the loop pile shall improve with two regards, no staining and more grip to keep an upright posture. On South Today this evening Paul Clifton went to Italy to witness Hitachi building IEP and said that are cheaper to build than the same trains built in the UK perhaps we should source future units from Italy.Bet they still have the same horrible seats! I found the statement of 'half the cost' amusing. Yes at face value a IEP 800 series coach costs £4.5 million and the Eversholt 802 coach costs £2.1 million. Giving half the price. But as all you shall point out. I have just divided the total contract cost by the number of vehicles! One has not factored into the IEP contract includes all maintenance and factors in the risk to not meet the TTS / where as the Eversholt contract does not include the maintenance costs and importantly the lease costs that Eversholt shall charge to GWR! One suspects the lease cost charged by Eversholt shall not be too shy from that of Agility West to GWR! What shall be interesting is when Roger Ford calculates the lease costs per coach and factors in the maintenance. Then we can compare to the IEP. But I suspect, Eversholt shall not be publicly stating what they charge! Thus, yes, in simple BBC headline term. Half the price! Edited February 10, 2018 by 159220 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platform 1 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Completely OT, but since the thread has drifted to inaccurate reporting. Auntie has had only one science editor: David Shukman (since 2012 when the role was created). Take Maggie Philbin ... now BBC Science editor.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 That's how she was described last time she appeared on Breakfast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted February 11, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 11, 2018 In fairness to Maggie Philbin she has done a lot to promote science, engineering and technology as career options. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 That's how she was described last time she appeared on Breakfast. I recollect she was a reporter on 'Tomorrow's World'; although she didn't have any science qualifications above O-level, neither did the original presenter, Raymond Baxter. What they both appeared to have was a capacity to communicate developments in various scientific areas to a non-specialist audience. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy stroud Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Yep, the timetable plans were published in all the usual periodicals. Four an hour to both Bristol and Cardiff, two an hour to Oxford, one per hour to both Cheltenham and Worcester. Obviously things can change, not least a slight lack of wiring, but they've certainly ordered enough IETs for an enhanced timetable and presumably they do plan on using them. Earlier today on the Great Western Website there was a list of 12 trains (Bristol/South Wales/Cheltenham to/from Paddington) cancelled due to shortage of train crew. If they are struggling to run their existing service, how can they hope to double the frequency. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37114 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Quick question, is there an upto date list of which services are IET diagrammed now please? Kids are on Half term next week and want to go an IET after they had a talk from someone at Network Rail at school... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 11, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 11, 2018 Earlier today on the Great Western Website there was a list of 12 trains (Bristol/South Wales/Cheltenham to/from Paddington) cancelled due to shortage of train crew. If they are struggling to run their existing service, how can they hope to double the frequency. It will no doubt make a difference when they do not have considerable numbers of crew engaged on Class 800 training although obviously the running of 2x5car sets could will lead to a need for extra customer service staff whatever else happens. And judging by many of the staff one now encounters both on-train and at some GWR stations they'll be even shorter of staff if they have future problems recruiting folk from the European mainland. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 They do need extra guards to run 10 car sets. I just got off a 10 car 800 where the front set only was in use, and it was packed like the Northern line at 0800. The rear 5 were OOU because of the lack of a guard, and there were plenty of people in the front 5 in various stages of disgruntlement at being crush loaded in a train that was pulling several hundred empty but inaccessible seats around. Me? I was only grumbling loudly and sarcastically... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 So when Class 800 sets are running in multiple they require a Guard for each set ? I wasn't aware of that (I don't think any other type without gangway connections between coupled sets has this restriction). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
159220 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 (edited) Quick question, is there an upto date list of which services are IET diagrammed now please? Kids are on Half term next week and want to go an IET after they had a talk from someone at Network Rail at school... Are you ready for it, quite a lot (subject to enough staff to operate - rather ambitious during Half Term): By 12th Feb GWML - IET Class 800/0 10 car unless stated (5) 5 car: 1L08 0458 Swansea - Paddington 0759 1C06 0830 Paddington - Bristol TM 1013 1A14 1100 Bristol TM - Paddington 1238 1B37 1315 Paddington - Cardiff Central 1523 1L74 1556 Cardiff Central - Paddington 1802 1C26 1830 Paddington - Bristol TM 2013 1C26 2019 Bristol TM - Weston SM 2053 (5) 2M70 2134 Weston SM - Bristol TM 2209 (5) 1A37 2239 Bristol TM - Paddington 0037 1C01 0519 Paddington - Swansea 0858 1L48 0929 Swansea - Paddington 1230 1C15 1300 Paddington - Bristol TM 1443 1A23 1530 Bristol TM - Paddington 1714 1B69 1745 Paddington - Swansea 2046 1A09 0712 Taunton - Bristol TM 0824 (5) 1A09 0830 Bristol TM - Paddington 1014 1B25 1045 Paddington - Swansea 1343 1L71 1429 Swansea - Paddington 1731 1C25 1800 Paddington - Bristol TM 1944 1A33 2030 Bristol TM - Paddington 2213 1B94 2245 Paddington - Swansea 0239 1W12 0547 Paddington - Worcester FS 0815 (5) 1P22 0825 Worcester FS - Paddington 1057 (5) 1W23 1122 Paddington - Worcester FS 1344 (5) 1P33 1355 Worcester FS - Paddington 1627 (5) 1D34 1651 Paddington - Oxford 1755 (5) 1P41 1831 Oxford - Paddington 1931 (5) 1D38 1950 Paddington - Oxford 2053 (5) 1P46 2101 Oxford - Paddington 2206 (5) 1P80 0559 Reading - Paddington 0636 (5) 1W14 0652 Paddington - Great Malvern 0937 (5) 1P25 0954 Great Malvern - Paddington 1228 (5) 1D26 1250 Paddington - Oxford 1351 (5) 1P32 1501 Oxford - Paddington 1559 (5) 1W33 1622 Paddington - Great Malvern 1926 (5) 1P47 1942 Great Malvern - Paddington 2230 (5) 1A03 0600 Bristol TM - Paddington 0744 1B12 0815 Paddington - Cardiff Central 1021 1L51 1056 Cardiff Central - Paddington 1301 1B40 1345 Paddington - Swansea 1642 1L90 1729 Swansea - Paddington 2031 1D41 2118 Paddington - Oxford 2218 (5) 1P50 2301 Oxford - Paddington 0024 (5) 1K05 0609 Newbury - Paddington 0710 (5) 1D15 0721 Paddington - Oxford 0817 (5) 1P19 0901 Oxford - Paddington 0959 (5) 1D22 1050 Paddington - Oxford 1151 (5) 1P28 1301 Oxford - Paddington 1358 (5) 1W29 1421 Paddington - Worcester FS 1644 (5) 1P42 1726 Worcester FS - Paddington 1959 (5) 1D13 0618 Paddington - Oxford 0720 (5) 1P16 0807 Oxford - Paddington 0908 (5) 1W19 0921 Paddington - Worcester FS 1131 (5) 1P29 1200 Worcester FS - Paddington 1427 (5) 1W31 1522 Paddington - Great Malvern 1758 (5) 1P45 1834 Great Malvern - Paddington 2129 (5) 5L42 0623 Swansea - Carmarthen 0705 (5) 1L42 0730 Carmarthen - Swansea 0822 (5) 1L42 0829 Swansea - Paddington 1132 1B31 1215 Paddington - Cardiff Central 1421 1L68 1456 Cardiff Central - Paddington 1702 1C24 1730 Paddington - Bristol TM 1913 1C24 1917 Bristol TM - Taunton 2031 (5) 1A37 2131 Taunton - Bristol TM 2232 (5) 1A37 2239 Bristol TM - Paddington 0037 1C02 0630 Paddington - Bristol TM 0818 1A10 0900 Bristol TM - Paddington 1039 1B27 1115 Paddington - Cardiff Central 1322 1L65 1356 Cardiff Central - Paddington 1607 1C22 1630 Paddington - Bristol TM 1814 1C22 1820 Bristol TM - Taunton 1930 (5) 1B05 0645 Paddington - Swansea 0945 1L52 1029 Swansea - Paddington 1332 1C17 1400 Paddington Bristol TM 1541 1A25 1630 Bristol TM - Paddington 1813 1B79 1845 Paddington - Swansea 2150 1L38 0759 Swansea - Paddington 1059 1C13 1200 Paddington - Bristol TM 1343 1A21 1430 Bristol TM - Paddington 1613 1B59 1645 Paddington - Swansea 1945 1L96 2029 Swansea - Paddington 2338 Note not all (5) diagrams with single unit Whilst here, latest: 800/0 Status update. 11/02/18 001-002 - Hitachi Fitting Out, Newton Aycliffe. 003-004 - Hitachi Test Units, various locations. 005/006/008-026/028/029 - GWR Accepted/Passenger Service. Total available units: 23 for a required 20 daily (019 is accepted by GWR, not in PS). 030 - Agility Trains West Acceptance/Mileage, Bristol/North Pole. 027/031-034 - Hitachi Commissioning, Doncaster. 007/035/036 - Hitachi Static Testing, Newton Aycliffe. 800/3 Status update. 301 - Unknown - Tees Docks? 302 - Hitachi Test Unit, various locations. 303 - Hitachi Commissioning, Doncaster. 304/305 - Hitachi Static Testing, Newton Aycliffe. 306-321 - Hitachi In Build, Newton Aycliffe 802/0 Status update. Diagrams Start 16/07/18 001-002 - Hitachi Test Units, various locations. 003-004 - Hitachi en route to UK (via channel tunnel) 005-008 - Hitachi Static Testing, Pistoia, Italy 009-022 - Hitachi In Build, Pistoia, Italy 802/1 Status update. 101 - Hitachi Test Unit, various locations. 102/103 - Hitachi In Build, Pistoia, Italy 103-114 - Hitachi to be built, Pistoia, Italy Edited February 11, 2018 by 159220 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37114 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Are you ready for it, quite a lot (subject to enough staff to operate - rather ambitious during Half Term): By 12th Feb GWML - IET Class 800/0 10 car unless stated (5) 5 car: 1L08 0458 Swansea - Paddington 0759 1C06 0830 Paddington - Bristol TM 1013 1A14 1100 Bristol TM - Paddington 1238 1B37 1315 Paddington - Cardiff Central 1523 1L74 1556 Cardiff Central - Paddington 1802 1C26 1830 Paddington - Bristol TM 2013 1C26 2019 Bristol TM - Weston SM 2053 (5) 2M70 2134 Weston SM - Bristol TM 2209 (5) 1A37 2239 Bristol TM - Paddington 0037 1C01 0519 Paddington - Swansea 0858 1L48 0929 Swansea - Paddington 1230 1C15 1300 Paddington - Bristol TM 1443 1A23 1530 Bristol TM - Paddington 1714 1B69 1745 Paddington - Swansea 2046 1A09 0712 Taunton - Bristol TM 0824 (5) 1A09 0830 Bristol TM - Paddington 1014 1B25 1045 Paddington - Swansea 1343 1L71 1429 Swansea - Paddington 1731 1C25 1800 Paddington - Bristol TM 1944 1A33 2030 Bristol TM - Paddington 2213 1B94 2245 Paddington - Swansea 0239 1W12 0547 Paddington - Worcester FS 0815 (5) 1P22 0825 Worcester FS - Paddington 1057 (5) 1W23 1122 Paddington - Worcester FS 1344 (5) 1P33 1355 Worcester FS - Paddington 1627 (5) 1D34 1651 Paddington - Oxford 1755 (5) 1P41 1831 Oxford - Paddington 1931 (5) 1D38 1950 Paddington - Oxford 2053 (5) 1P46 2101 Oxford - Paddington 2206 (5) 1P80 0559 Reading - Paddington 0636 (5) 1W14 0652 Paddington - Great Malvern 0937 (5) 1P25 0954 Great Malvern - Paddington 1228 (5) 1D26 1250 Paddington - Oxford 1351 (5) 1P32 1501 Oxford - Paddington 1559 (5) 1W33 1622 Paddington - Great Malvern 1926 (5) 1P47 1942 Great Malvern - Paddington 2230 (5) 1A03 0600 Bristol TM - Paddington 0744 1B12 0815 Paddington - Cardiff Central 1021 1L51 1056 Cardiff Central - Paddington 1301 1B40 1345 Paddington - Swansea 1642 1L90 1729 Swansea - Paddington 2031 1D41 2118 Paddington - Oxford 2218 (5) 1P50 2301 Oxford - Paddington 0024 (5) 1K05 0609 Newbury - Paddington 0710 (5) 1D15 0721 Paddington - Oxford 0817 (5) 1P19 0901 Oxford - Paddington 0959 (5) 1D22 1050 Paddington - Oxford 1151 (5) 1P28 1301 Oxford - Paddington 1358 (5) 1W29 1421 Paddington - Worcester FS 1644 (5) 1P42 1726 Worcester FS - Paddington 1959 (5) 1D13 0618 Paddington - Oxford 0720 (5) 1P16 0807 Oxford - Paddington 0908 (5) 1W19 0921 Paddington - Worcester FS 1131 (5) 1P29 1200 Worcester FS - Paddington 1427 (5) 1W31 1522 Paddington - Great Malvern 1758 (5) 1P45 1834 Great Malvern - Paddington 2129 (5) 5L42 0623 Swansea - Carmarthen 0705 (5) 1L42 0730 Carmarthen - Swansea 0822 (5) 1L42 0829 Swansea - Paddington 1132 1B31 1215 Paddington - Cardiff Central 1421 1L68 1456 Cardiff Central - Paddington 1702 1C24 1730 Paddington - Bristol TM 1913 1C24 1917 Bristol TM - Taunton 2031 (5) 1A37 2131 Taunton - Bristol TM 2232 (5) 1A37 2239 Bristol TM - Paddington 0037 1C02 0630 Paddington - Bristol TM 0818 1A10 0900 Bristol TM - Paddington 1039 1B27 1115 Paddington - Cardiff Central 1322 1L65 1356 Cardiff Central - Paddington 1607 1C22 1630 Paddington - Bristol TM 1814 1C22 1820 Bristol TM - Taunton 1930 (5) 1B05 0645 Paddington - Swansea 0945 1L52 1029 Swansea - Paddington 1332 1C17 1400 Paddington Bristol TM 1541 1A25 1630 Bristol TM - Paddington 1813 1B79 1845 Paddington - Swansea 2150 1L38 0759 Swansea - Paddington 1059 1C13 1200 Paddington - Bristol TM 1343 1A21 1430 Bristol TM - Paddington 1613 1B59 1645 Paddington - Swansea 1945 1L96 2029 Swansea - Paddington 2338 Note not all (5) diagrams with single unit Whilst here, latest: 800/0 Status update. 11/02/18 001-002 - Hitachi Fitting Out, Newton Aycliffe. 003-004 - Hitachi Test Units, various locations. 005/006/008-026/028/029 - GWR Accepted/Passenger Service. Total available units: 23 for a required 20 daily (019 is accepted by GWR, not in PS). 030 - Agility Trains West Acceptance/Mileage, Bristol/North Pole. 027/031-034 - Hitachi Commissioning, Doncaster. 007/035/036 - Hitachi Static Testing, Newton Aycliffe. 800/3 Status update. 301 - Unknown - Tees Docks? 302 - Hitachi Test Unit, various locations. 303 - Hitachi Commissioning, Doncaster. 304/305 - Hitachi Static Testing, Newton Aycliffe. 306-321 - Hitachi In Build, Newton Aycliffe 802/0 Status update. Diagrams Start 16/07/18 001-002 - Hitachi Test Units, various locations. 003-004 - Hitachi en route to UK (via channel tunnel) 005-008 - Hitachi Static Testing, Pistoia, Italy 009-022 - Hitachi In Build, Pistoia, Italy 802/1 Status update. 101 - Hitachi Test Unit, various locations. 102/103 - Hitachi In Build, Pistoia, Italy 103-114 - Hitachi to be built, Pistoia, Italy Thanks 159220, I will try and book both trips on IET's and will hopefully get at least a 50% success rate. Kids are excited because they heard the IET's have free wifi, I haven't broken it to them that so do the HST's.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D854_Tiger Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Earlier today on the Great Western Website there was a list of 12 trains (Bristol/South Wales/Cheltenham to/from Paddington) cancelled due to shortage of train crew. If they are struggling to run their existing service, how can they hope to double the frequency. I'm pretty sure, with some justification, GW will claim knock on effect from the electrification delays, though probably with rather more justification than they are entitled to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Earlier today on the Great Western Website there was a list of 12 trains (Bristol/South Wales/Cheltenham to/from Paddington) cancelled due to shortage of train crew. If they are struggling to run their existing service, how can they hope to double the frequency. But was it a shortage of train crew or a shortage of IET traincrew? I understand they are a 'bit' behind with the IET training and the take up of the Company flexibility 'bribe' has not been as good as they were hoping. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy stroud Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) But was it a shortage of train crew or a shortage of IET traincrew? I dont really see that it matters. One way or another, the indications are (from their own website) that they are inadequatley staffed. They are in the business of running trains and I am simply an intending passenger. It is a shame that with the introduction of new trains, the service is let down by staffing issues. Edited February 12, 2018 by andy stroud Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 They only had half the number of guards that they needed on the IET train I was on. I don't care in the slightest why, but they need to address it. Being crush loaded into half a train with 5 empty carriages which we weren't allowed into (but had to walk past) is a really terrible advert for rail travel. Cramming us on through the automatic doors really helped keep the dwell times down, though, so there's that benefit over a HST... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Coryton Posted February 12, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 12, 2018 They only had half the number of guards that they needed on the IET train I was on. I don't care in the slightest why, but they need to address it. Being crush loaded into half a train with 5 empty carriages which we weren't allowed into (but had to walk past) is a really terrible advert for rail travel. Cramming us on through the automatic doors really helped keep the dwell times down, though, so there's that benefit over a HST... And it would be interesting to know why there needs to be a guard per unit, given that - as pointed out earlier - this isn't generally the rule. Round here a single guard happily hops from unit to unit at stations when two Pacers or a Pacer and a Sprinter are coupled together. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 I can see the argument (especially on an inter city train) that the guard needs to be able to get everywhere at any time - notwithstanding any precedent elsewhere (what do XC and EMT do when they run in multiple?). Though the guard in that particular case wasn't getting anywhere without crowd-surfing, so I'm not sure how valid it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Coryton Posted February 12, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 12, 2018 I can see the argument (especially on an inter city train) that the guard needs to be able to get everywhere at any time - notwithstanding any precedent elsewhere (what do XC and EMT do when they run in multiple?). Though the guard in that particular case wasn't getting anywhere without crowd-surfing, so I'm not sure how valid it is. And notwithstanding the (contentious) precedent that over much of the network the guard can't get anywhere on the train at all because the only staff member required to be on board is the driver. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Maybe they should have built the nine-car units first. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy stroud Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Maybe they should have built the nine-car units first. Geoff Endacott I dont think they should have built ANY five car sets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) Thought they'd learnt the lesson re-staffing with the APT-P; where there was duplication of staff because there was no (public) access between each half-set. But that was over 35 years ago and the past is another country...................... Edited February 12, 2018 by Peter Kazmierczak 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 12, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 12, 2018 And it would be interesting to know why there needs to be a guard per unit, given that - as pointed out earlier - this isn't generally the rule. Round here a single guard happily hops from unit to unit at stations when two Pacers or a Pacer and a Sprinter are coupled together. So would I. As I understood things from what I was told on the first day there was only one Guard on the train and indeed that was the same impression I had on a recent trip back from Cardiff - Guard in one set and a Senior Conductor or Conductor in the other set. There might well be a shortage of trained staff if the pace of introduction is outpacing training and I can understand that happening as a possible consequence of late handover of sets or maybe a shortage of staff in the first place but still don't see why a 2x5car train needs two Guards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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