Class 800 - Updates

[Gwiwer]

The question is whether the red was read before Reading or did it require reading later

[Indomitable026]

I snapped this one at The Cross on my way through earlier.

 

[Gwiwer]

A very empty Cross. And at the real Platform 9¾ as well; where the movies were shot not at the sign they now charge you for photographing.

[Trains4U]

I snapped this one at The Cross on my way through earlier.

 

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That must be the one I saw thundering over the Ermine Street bridge in Huntingdon this lunchtime (About twenty past one)

 

The first that I've seen

Edited November 5, 2018 by Trains4U

[Indomitable026]

That must be the one I saw thundering over the Ermine Street bridge in Huntingdon this lunchtime (About twenty past one)

 

The first that I've seen

I took it around 15:00

[The Stationmaster]

What particular situation? (Which way was the train going?)

 

West (see earlier post)

[Talltim]

Now interestingly the one I saw the other day was showing red for a seat that was reserved from Reading but was red well east of Reading (around about Southall).  I wonder if the system is sufficiently clever to recognise that particular situation as being a bit different from other reserved enroute situations?

What is different about that situation to any other reserved enroute situation?

[Covkid]

How many of them are in that livery now ?

Interesting to see overhead line warning stripe goes up and around the "cyclops" light.  does that mean you can change the LED whilst under the wires !!!! 

[Penrhos1920]

Just seen an IEP driving car on a low loading traveling towards Teesport (i.e. the opposite direction to normal) on the A66 in Middlesbrough. Any ideas why?

[Talltim]

How many of them are in that livery now ?

Interesting to see overhead line warning stripe goes up and around the "cyclops" light. does that mean you can change the LED whilst under the wires !!!!

It is a bit weird. I suspect you change them from inside anyway

[The Stationmaster]

What is different about that situation to any other reserved enroute situation?

 

Longer distance commuter destinations mean that many trains from from Paddington in the evening load heavily but Reading is a key point for joining passengers so is there a need still (as has long been the case) to stop folk who won't be alighting at Reading getting into a seat which is reserved from Reading.  The answer way back when was to put U stops at Reading in various long distance evening peak trains from Paddington but ORCATS would not then count the 'right' (in the TOC's views) numbers for their share of fares to Reading so the U stops were all made open stops (over 20 years ago).

[Ken.W]

How many of them are in that livery now ?

Interesting to see overhead line warning stripe goes up and around the "cyclops" light.  does that mean you can change the LED whilst under the wires !!!! 

 

No, the Orange cant-rail stripe is just above cab windsceen level...

 

The Yellow stripe around the top light's the First class end indicator.

(apparently intended for staff use to then inform passengers)

 

(So, it's the right way round then!!)

 

Only the one in that livery so far, as far as I know

Edited November 7, 2018 by Ken.W

[royaloak]

GWR seem in no hurry to turn sets. HST sets are also often the wrong way round though could be turned overnight at Laira or St. Philip’s Marsh. Individual coaches are also sometimes the wrong way round within right-way-round sets. All of which makes the booking of seats at best an unreliable event and at times farcical

You cannot turn IETs at Laira because they are barred from the Speedway which is one side of the triangle you would need to use, and you cant turn a HST unless you have 2 drivers because the change ends walking route at Laira jn is no longer recognised by Network Rail., and so cannot be used if you only have one driver available.

[frobisher]

You cannot turn IETs at Laira because they are barred from the Speedway which is one side of the triangle you would need to use, and you cant turn a HST unless you have 2 drivers because the change ends walking route at Laira jn is no longer recognised by Network Rail., and so cannot be used if you only have one driver available.

Out of curiosity, is that a general requirement (that there must be a clear route to change ends external to the train) or is it not permissible or desirable to transverse the train purely internally which I'd have thought would have been possible from a layman's knowledge of the HST?

[Ken.W]

Are you sure that red only shows for seats which are reserved for the whole journey of the train? I thought that red meant reserved now, green unreserved, and yellow meant unreserved now but not later. Perhaps I just assumed that's how it works but it seems a more useful way to do it to me. If I get on a train I want to know where I can sit now - having yellow both for "you can sit here now but maybe not for all the journey you're making" and "you can't sit here now, but you might still be on the train when it becomes free" doesn't seem so helpful.

 

As for the reservations not being live yet, it would be nice if it had been made clear that they were under test and should be ignored. I have seen them sporadically in use for quite a while alongside cards (and maybe also without? not sure) and on one occasion there was a card on my reserved seat but the display didn't show it reserved, so I didn't really have any grounds for claiming it from the occupant.

 

I've now seen more detailed information on the system fitted on LNER trains, which goes live on Thursday.

It's a unique system to digitally show seat reservations, and also detects if a seat is occupied.

 

Reservations are downloaded up to 25 mins before departure

Seat Display screens (which I believe are larger than on Pendolino etc) then show simply either Available, Reserved to xxxx, or Available to xxxx

At each calling station the screens will refresh to show any new information. eg on a Kings X - Newcastle train, a seat reservation York - Newcastle will initially be shown as Available to York. At York it'll change to Reserved to Newcastle.

 

Seat reservation lights will show;

Red; Reserved for full end-to-end journey

Amber; Reserved for parts of the journey

Green; Available for the whole end-to-end journey

Previous posts have commented on the lights not being lit;

They'll show for 5 minutes; at the originating station three minutes before departure and two after, and at intermediate stations after the train has stopped.

 

Seat occupancy will be scanned twice during each leg of the journey, the first 5 minutes after leaving each station and the second at the mid-way point between station stops.

 

A previous post commented on the abillity to spot unreserved seats from the platform at present by the paper reservation tickets, something I've often done too when travelling.

For a while now, the Customer Information screens for VTEC/LNER trains  have shown a pictogram of the train showing coach reservation levels, these will now be based on actual occupancy as well as reservation levels rather than just reservations (other than, of course, at the originating station which can only have reservation data).

 

When passengers board a train, they'll be able to access the train's on-board Wi-Fi (but won't need to purchase any or sign-in) with their device to access a 'seat finder' app

It'll be recommeded to wait 5 to 10 minutes to use this to allow the first occupancy scan to take place.

Pressing a 'find an empty seat' button will bring up a carriage level view. Each carriage will have an occupancy bar showing how busy it is (but not reservations).

They can then select a carriage by tapping/clicking on it, this will show the carriage in seat level view which includes reservation and occupancy information.

The seats in the carriage will be shown highlighted as;

Red; Occupied

Amber; Currently unoccupied, but reserved for part of the journey

Green; Currently unoccupied, and not reserved for any of the journey

There'll be a timestamp onscreen, showing time of the last occupancy scan, to help access how up to date the information is.

Also, if a seat's unoccupied during the second, mid-point, scan, it'll still show as occupied if it was during the first scan, so passengers don't lose their seat going to the buffet!

 

The occupancy data will also be used in the staff systems, Genius Mobile and OTIS, to give accurate reservaton and occupancy info.

Edited November 7, 2018 by Ken.W

[Ken.W]

Out of curiosity, is that a general requirement (that there must be a clear route to change ends external to the train) or is it not permissible or desirable to transverse the train purely internally which I'd have thought would have been possible from a layman's knowledge of the HST?

 

These days, we're not supposed to go through the engine rooms with the engines running.

 

When changing ends externally, other than exceptional out of course workings, an authorised walking route's required

[Ken.W]

You cannot turn IETs at Laira because they are barred from the Speedway which is one side of the triangle you would need to use,

 

Having seen the route restrictions for 80x on the ECML, these are obviouly going to be the most reliable trains ever built

 

... they're prohibited from practically anywhere that one could be 'put off' en-route!!!

[37114]

Any news on when GWR are likely to be accepting more class 800s into service, 5 car seeming to be the norm on the trains I catch?

[HillsideDepot]

Any news on when GWR are likely to be accepting more class 800s into service, 5 car seeming to be the norm on the trains I catch?

 

Someone at Swindon yesterday reported 800318 and 802012 as being "the new kids on the block". 802012 seems to have been on Bristol/S Wales work rather than one of the "Great Way Round" West Country services as it someone else noted it there in the evening too.

 

Meanwhile the 1742 Penzance - Bristol - Paddington was a pair of 800s yesterday.

[caradoc]

Slightly off topic, but yesterday we had a new TV delivered. There's a big picture of a fancy train on the box, because the maker is Hitachi. And........it doesn't work, so it's going back today !

[The Stationmaster]

You cannot turn IETs at Laira because they are barred from the Speedway which is one side of the triangle you would need to use, and you cant turn a HST unless you have 2 drivers because the change ends walking route at Laira jn is no longer recognised by Network Rail., and so cannot be used if you only have one driver available.

 

Looks like people are putting problems in the way without bothering to solve them, seems to be all too common nowadays alas.  The Through Sidings are just as good as the Speedway as a route to Laira Jcn (even if they might need someone on the ground) and the 'walking problem' at Laira Jcn is simply one that needs to be solved rather than trotted out by NR.

 

Interesting that the Speedway is barred - is the curvature too tight I wonder?

[The Stationmaster]

These days, we're not supposed to go through the engine rooms with the engines running.

 

When changing ends externally, other than exceptional out of course workings, an authorised walking route's required

Which is all absolutely understandable, but the 80X trains don't have engine rooms of course so I wonder if there is a concern about dirty footprints on the floors as the Driver would have joined in some cases on depot?

[Coryton]

Interesting that the Speedway is barred - is the curvature too tight I wonder?

 

Barred because the trains don't actually fit, or because it hasn't been route cleared, though?

[The Stationmaster]

I've now seen more detailed information on the system fitted on LNER trains, which goes live on Thursday.

It's a unique system to digitally show seat reservations, and also detects if a seat is occupied.

 

Reservations are downloaded up to 25 mins before departure

Seat Display screens (which I believe are larger than on Pendolino etc) then show simply either Available, Reserved to xxxx, or Available to xxxx

At each calling station the screens will refresh to show any new information. eg on a Kings X - Newcastle train, a seat reservation York - Newcastle will initially be shown as Available to York. At York it'll change to Reserved to Newcastle.

 

Seat reservation lights will show;

Red; Reserved for full end-to-end journey

Amber; Reserved for parts of the journey

Green; Available for the whole end-to-end journey

Previous posts have commented on the lights not being lit;

They'll show for 5 minutes; at the originating station three minutes before departure and two after, and at intermediate stations after the train has stopped.

 

Seat occupancy will be scanned twice during each leg of the journey, the first 5 minutes after leaving each station and the second at the mid-way point between station stops.

 

A previous post commented on the abillity to spot unreserved seats from the platform at present by the paper reservation tickets, something I've often done too when travelling.

For a while now, the Customer Information screens for VTEC/LNER trains  have shown a pictogram of the train showing coach reservation levels, these will now be based on actual occupancy as well as reservation levels rather than just reservations (other than, of course, at the originating station which can only have reservation data).

 

When passengers board a train, they'll be able to access the train's on-board Wi-Fi (but won't need to purchase any or sign-in) with their device to access a 'seat finder' app

It'll be recommeded to wait 5 to 10 minutes to use this to allow the first occupancy scan to take place.

Pressing a 'find an empty seat' button will bring up a carriage level view. Each carriage will have an occupancy bar showing how busy it is (but not reservations).

They can then select a carriage by tapping/clicking on it, this will show the carriage in seat level view which includes reservation and occupancy information.

The seats in the carriage will be shown highlighted as;

Red; Occupied

Amber; Currently unoccupied, but reserved for part of the journey

Green; Currently unoccupied, and not reserved for any of the journey

There'll be a timestamp onscreen, showing time of the last occupancy scan, to help access how up to date the information is.

Also, if a seat's unoccupied during the second, mid-point, scan, it'll still show as occupied if it was during the first scan, so passengers don't lose their seat going to the buffet!

 

The occupancy data will also be used in the staff systems, Genius Mobile and OTIS, to give accurate reservaton and occupancy info.

I foresee a problem with that system.  I join an 80X heading south at York (yes, I'm thinking a long way ahead) but am late getting to the platform and join near the rear but want a seat in 1st Class, or I'm a late boarder at the rear of the train at the Cross and want a seat in standard.  Makes no difference whichever it is of those two situations but by the time I get to where I want to sit down the lights will have gone out and I take an unoccupied seat - 100% legitimate - it's not shown as reserved for any part of the journey and no one is siting there.  So then what happens if it subsequently lights up as yellow and all other seats in the vicinity are taken?  

 

As I see it, and unless someone revises various Byelaws or whatever, I have quite legitimately parked myself in an unoccupied and unreserved seat, so I then refuse to move because it was neither occupied nor reserved when I first sat there.  Interesting problem for the Guard/Conductor/Train Manager/Customer Service Manager or whatever his current title happens to be.  And a bad mark chalked up by an irate passenger against what he/she regards as a bunch of clowns and money grabbers etc who are this month the operators of that train.  Not at all clever and not really recognising what happens in the real world on long distance trains.  More thought needed I think.

[Coryton]

I foresee a problem with that system.  I join an 80X heading south at York (yes, I'm thinking a long way ahead) but am late getting to the platform and join near the rear but want a seat in 1st Class, or I'm a late boarder at the rear of the train at the Cross and want a seat in standard.  Makes no difference whichever it is of those two situations but by the time I get to where I want to sit down the lights will have gone out and I take an unoccupied seat - 100% legitimate - it's not shown as reserved for any part of the journey and no one is siting there.  So then what happens if it subsequently lights up as yellow and all other seats in the vicinity are taken?  

 

As I see it, and unless someone revises various Byelaws or whatever, I have quite legitimately parked myself in an unoccupied and unreserved seat, so I then refuse to move because it was neither occupied nor reserved when I first sat there.  Interesting problem for the Guard/Conductor/Train Manager/Customer Service Manager or whatever his current title happens to be.  And a bad mark chalked up by an irate passenger against what he/she regards as a bunch of clowns and money grabbers etc who are this month the operators of that train.  Not at all clever and not really recognising what happens in the real world on long distance trains.  More thought needed I think.

 

I don't know what would be wrong with the lights staying on all the time as with a (GWR) IET.

 

But just because the lights go on and off doesn't (necessarily) mean that the displays do the same.