Class 800 - Updates

[Ron Ron Ron]

[D854_Tiger]

Do we have anymore information on how the operators intend to deploy the five car units, where they will be using them alone, where in multiple and where, if at all, they will be splitting trains composed of two five car sets.

[The Stationmaster]

Ive been lucky enough to see an interior, all be it in plastic wrap. Much fear before entry was around a grey tube, but actually, when you get inside it feels modern, light and appealing. The seats, though by appearance look hard, are actually pleasant on the back. Good arm support. Amazing leg room. Good visibility out of the window and a significant increase in table bay seats! Firm but supportive. In 1st, certainly, not as charming as the leather interior of the GWR HST, but, the seat itself is comfortable (and actually I suspect the fabric shall be nicer for long summer journeys). 

 

Simply modern train environment, the traveling public shall find them a significant improvement over the current GWR standard environment. 

 

Of course, the layout is DfT spec rather than GWR. We shall see what Virgin Trains do with the East Coast 800s from December 2018. And if images of the TP Express 802s are anything to measure a potential First future GWR franchise by. The interior of the 800s on the GW can only improve. 

 

My only concern is how I can get an espresso based coffee onboard, though been told there is a bean coffee machine in the kitchen! For standard tho? Still the kitchen is better than mine at home and no doubt the Pullman dining on the 800s shall excel. 

 

Getting away from the leather seats would be no bad thing from the passenger's viewpoint but it will come with a cleaning penalty as fabric seats, even with removable covers, present greater cleaning problems especially as they age (I wonder if they have removable covers? - sorry I think I can work out DafT's specification abilities on that one).

 

I see that compared with RTT times the afternoon Swansea departure quoted by Geoff has been brought forward by 5 minutes - I shall try to give that one a try next week and see which is right.

[The Stationmaster]

 

That is the formation which I saw passing through Twyford on Monday on its way from Paddington to Stoke Gifford. 

 

Presumably have at least 4 GWR liveried sets hidden away somewhere and hopefully the exteriors will actually be a lot cleaner that Set 04 was when I saw it on Monday - quite a contrast with those nice shiny HST sets back in the days when they first entered traffic.

[Richard E]

There is/was at least one GWR liveried set in Doncaster earlier this week.

[jamie92208]

There is/was at least one GWR liveried set in Doncaster earlier this week.

 

800 308 was there last Thursday, I'm going to pay another visit tonight and will report accordingly.

Jamie

 

Edited to get the number right.

Edited October 12, 2017 by jamie92208

[Banger Blue]

Do we have anymore information on how the operators intend to deploy the five car units, where they will be using them alone, where in multiple and where, if at all, they will be splitting trains composed of two five car sets.

When the diagrams first start, they are operating together as 10 car sets. As the next lot of diagrams come on line, one of the 10 cars splits at Bristol TM, one 5 car does a trip to Weston-super-Mare whilst it's partner stables at Bristol TM.

[Geoff Endacott]

Presumably have at least 4 GWR liveried sets hidden away somewhere and hopefully the exteriors will actually be a lot cleaner that Set 04 was when I saw it on Monday - quite a contrast with those nice shiny HST sets back in the days when they first entered traffic.

 

There are already at least five green five-car sets, 800003/04/08/10/13.

 

Geoff Endacott

[Ron Ron Ron]

+ 800011

 

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/yDA5doLtaQ8/maxresdefault.jpg

 

 

.

[159220]

Set No.4 at Reading c.10.00 this a.m waiting to depart Down Main Line westwards - distinctly grubby looking so iI wonder if the Hitachi paint job or vinyl is to a different spec from the GWR repaints?  Seemingly a Westbury - Swindon run reversing at Reading although running under two separate train IDs.

 

DSCF9904.jpg

 

Contrasting noses

 

DSCF9905.jpg

 

Same First commissioned GWR Green in vinyl as with paint on 800/3s and 802s. But yes, there is an ever so slight different to how the green comes out on printed vinyl. Certainly if comments by VTEC are anything to go by, vinyl and 125 mph is not an ideal combination. Expect to see 800001-036 painted green IF First win the next franchise. 

 

-----

 

Also, where ever I read, sorry could not find the post to quote. The noses are not painted, everything in GWR green on 800/3s is vinyl. Shall see how long it lasts all smart before a paint brush does come out. Interestingly - side tangent here sorry. If you look at First MTR SWR vinyl on 444040 they have roller painted the nose ends blue, then applied vinyl off the curve. Actually, VTEC applies same technique on their fleet. 

 

I wonder if the vinyls were another VO from the DaFT base grey spec?

 

No, GWR are paying for the vinyl on 800001-036, whereas they have exercised their rights within the TTS for the 800/3s. I really don't have the time to find the relevant section, please read: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/intercity-express-programme-technical-specification-and-contracts. 

 

Good, but how long before some bright spark decides that by removing a couple of tables they can slip in some more airline style seating?

 

VTEC already are changing the seating arrangement, under the TTS. 

 

Do we have anymore information on how the operators intend to deploy the five car units, where they will be using them alone, where in multiple and where, if at all, they will be splitting trains composed of two five car sets.

 

First single 5-car 800 diagram starts early Jan taking over one of the cl. 180 North (well slightly north, mainly west) of Oxford. 

 

802008 was there last Thursday, I'm going to pay another visit tonight and will report accordingly.

 

Jamie

 

 

Impossible, not in the UK yet! Still in build in Italy. 

 

Hitachi Doncaster has in GWR Green 800302 outside, well, viewable from the ECML.

[St. Simon]

Presumably have at least 4 GWR liveried sets hidden away somewhere and hopefully the exteriors will actually be a lot cleaner that Set 04 was when I saw it on Monday - quite a contrast with those nice shiny HST sets back in the days when they first entered traffic.

Hi,

 

My information, relaid to me on Wednesday, is that Hitachi are preparing 4 units for Monday, including upgrading interiors and engines from the ones currently fitted to the ones that are being used for driver testing, although I don't know what the updates actually are.

 

GWR seemed to really ramping up driver training as there was the usual 2 Green units on Reading Depot waiting to go off Depot this afternoon, with another at Swindon and another Reading Station this evening.

 

Simon

Edited October 29, 2017 by St. Simon

[Ron Ron Ron]

Plan your HST nostalgia trip in soon.

It's only a small scale start next week, but within 6-12 months the GWML is going to look very different.

 

.

[D854_Tiger]

Plan your HST nostalgia trip in soon.

It's only a small scale start next week, but within 6-12 months the GWML is going to look very different.

 

.

 

Yes indeed and they are even going to have some wires, for around the first thirty miles.

[jamie92208]

 

 

 

Impossible, not in the UK yet! Still in build in Italy. 

 

Hitachi Doncaster has in GWR Green 800302 outside, well, viewable from the ECML.

 

Sorry my mistake, it was 800 308 there last Thursday.   800 302 was on the same road furthest from the ECML this evening. According to Realtimetrains I missed another set working north to Darlington.

 

Jamie

Edited October 12, 2017 by jamie92208

[royaloak]

My friend said that acceleration is OK in terms of keeping to HST timings, but they struggle to get to the high '100 teens' or to 125 mph when running at speed on diesel power only, so it's a case of 'swings and roundabouts'.

 

 

 

The class 800s are now supposedly getting the uprated class 802 spec engines, presumably that's a change not yet delivered or possibly even negotiated.

 

Seeing as it's likely to be only a change to the software configuration, it shouldn't take too long, but I can imagine the financials will take much longer particularly in relation to the the maintenance contracts and availability. 

It is only a software change to uprate the engines but they will soon overheat as the DaFT specced 800/0s have smaller radiators than the GWR specced 800/3s, so as a minimum the radiators will need to be changed.

 

They are also changing the rheo grids on the roof so the 800/0s can use rheostatic braking when running on diesel which they cannot do at the moment meaning they basically eat brake pads and discs.

[159220]

Sorry my mistake, it was 800 308 there last Thursday.   800 302 was on the same road furthest from the ECML this evening. According to Realtimetrains I missed another set working north to Darlington.

 

Jamie

 

I am really sorry to be a stickler for fact. But 800308 shells are still in Japan/on the high seas.

 

800301 is in shells - either at the dock in secure storage or now at the Hitachi plant 

302 is at Doncaster

303 is at Doncaster 

304 is in production at the Hitachi plant 

305 is in shells at the Hitachi plant 

306-321 shells are either on a ship or under build in Japan.

 

It is only a software change to uprate the engines but they will soon overheat as the DaFT specced 800/0s have smaller radiators than the GWR specced 800/3s, so as a minimum the radiators will need to be changed.

 

They are also changing the rheo grids on the roof so the 800/0s can use rheostatic braking when running on diesel which they cannot do at the moment meaning they basically eat brake pads and discs.

 

 

Indeed, only software to make the engines run at full rating rather than reduced. Surprised to hear about an increase to the engine power pack radiators? I know the 802s have enlarged urea tanks within the power pack. Seeing as the radiators are part of the MTU pack, this would in effect be a variation to the contract with MTU rather than just Agility West. (The current shells for the 800/3s in the UK all have standard rheostatic brake radiators on the roof). 

 

Enlarged rheostatic brake radiators on the roof are now confirmed for 800/0s and /3s? I have been checking since first reading the rumours but no one officially (snr. either side) recognised the rumours....Very good news if they are, as by all accounts the 802s are superior in every-way when compared to the 800s.

Edited October 13, 2017 by 159220

[Captain Kernow]

Enlarged rheostatic brake radiators on the roof are now confirmed for 800/0s and /3s? I have been checking since first reading the rumours but no one officially (snr. either side) recognised the rumours....Very good news if they are, as by all accounts the 802s are superior in every-way when compared to the 800s.

I was only a mere Operator when I was working, rather than an Engineer, so I don't really know what an 'elnarged rheostatic brake radiator' is, but I do know the Dawlish Warren to Teignmouth stretch of line very well, so I do hope that this equipment won't mind being soaked in salt water.

[jamie92208]

I am really sorry to be a stickler for fact. But 800308 shells are still in Japan/on the high seas.

 

800301 is in shells - either at the dock in secure storage or now at the Hitachi plant 

302 is at Doncaster

303 is at Doncaster 

304 is in production at the Hitachi plant 

305 is in shells at the Hitachi plant 

306-321 shells are either on a ship or under build in Japan.

It may well have been 303 but from the road beside the car park the figure at the end of each trailer car looked like an 8 to me however I am happy to be corrected.

 

Jamie

[D854_Tiger]

I was only a mere Operator when I was working, rather than an Engineer, so I don't really know what an 'elnarged rheostatic brake radiator' is, but I do know the Dawlish Warren to Teignmouth stretch of line very well, so I do hope that this equipment won't mind being soaked in salt water.

 

Rumour has it that Hitachi has made great effort to ensure the class 802s are seaworthy.

 

Lots of testing involving seawater apparently.

[royaloak]

I was only a mere Operator when I was working, rather than an Engineer, so I don't really know what an 'elnarged rheostatic brake radiator' is, but I do know the Dawlish Warren to Teignmouth stretch of line very well, so I do hope that this equipment won't mind being soaked in salt water.

Its a bank of rheostats on the roof not a 'radiator' as we know it but it does radiate the heat produced by the dynamic braking.

 

The only difference I can see is the Voyager rheostats are fitted in a shallow well on the roof (which fills up with salt water) whereas the IET/AT300s have a flat roof with the grids mounted on top so that should allow the salt water to drain away faster, that is about it, I just hope they have got their sums right because it will be mighty embarrassing if they havent. 

[royaloak]

Rumour has it that Hitachi has made great effort to ensure the class 802s are seaworthy.

 

Lots of testing involving seawater apparently.

All we hear is they are 'Dawlish resistant', but what we want is for them to be 'Dawlish proof'.

[Zomboid]

Not even the track is Dawlish-proof. I'm sure after the voyager situation they'll be as resistant as possible to the conditions there though.

[Richard E]

Still one green IEP hanging on the wall at Doncaster this morning on the road nearest the ECML. Two of the three in there were pan up, I couldn't tell if the third was or not.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Rumour has it that Hitachi has made great effort to ensure the class 802s are seaworthy.

 

Lots of testing involving seawater apparently.

 

 

There's a high pressure water test rig at the Newton Aycliffe production facility.

 

[The Johnster]

I'll scrap my plans for a time machine to travel on a pre-war train then.

 

I thing most modern people would find the past highly aromatic, and people of my generation would probably find their own childhoods so!