East Coast Main Line to Virgin Trains East Coast

[The Stationmaster]

Interesting to hear that the union have decided to return to the negotiating table and have temporarily called off the strike action.

 

They might well have realised they're on what looks to me like shaky ground on some parts of their argument (like booking offices is nothing to do with the RMT?).

[Purley Oaks]

Don't quite get the 125 interior refurb - VTEC seem to have decided to alter the seat numbers (f'rinstance, seats with extra legroom 75/76 are now 71/72; there are other examples) - whereas BR, GNER, NXEC and EC all refurbed but kept the same seat numbers.

 

Not very important in the grand scheme of things of course, but it screws up seat reservations - the online seat reservation system on the VTEC booking website site currently uses the old numbers at the mo, and there's no way of knowing whether your train will be refurbed or not. My point? Easier to keep the seat numbers as they were.

 

Can anyone enlighten us?

 

Mal

[jjb1970]

Maybe they realised people on the ECML struggled to understand how seats work and this is part of a re-education plan. Also includes advice to bring your own cushions. I'll get me hat and coat.......

[Richard E]

I'm just looking at a 2015 seating plan for the VTEC HST (http://ehelp.thetrainline.com/euf/assets/images/Seating%20-%20vtechst-2015-dl.pdf), extra legroom seats in coaches C, D, E, F and G are all numbered 71 and 72 so it seems nothing has changed in the latest refurb. Seats1 to 4 and possibly 69 and 70 also have extra leg room. There are some additional ones in coach F as well as the disabled facilities are in this coach. Admittedly seats 75 and 76 don't exist in coach F on an HST but do on all other coaches.

 

I know from experience that the 225 'Priority seats' which give extra legroom are seats 73 to 77 and 1 & 2 apart from Coach F which has the standard class disabled access and extra space for seats 1 to 10 and 73 to 78.

 

Better than GWR who cram 84 into Standard Class though.

[Purley Oaks]

I'm just looking at a 2015 seating plan for the VTEC HST (http://ehelp.thetrainline.com/euf/assets/images/Seating%20-%20vtechst-2015-dl.pdf), extra legroom seats in coaches C, D, E, F and G are all numbered 71 and 72 so it seems nothing has changed in the latest refurb. Seats1 to 4 and possibly 69 and 70 also have extra leg room. There are some additional ones in coach F as well as the disabled facilities are in this coach. Admittedly seats 75 and 76 don't exist in coach F on an HST but do on all other coaches.

 

I know from experience that the 225 'Priority seats' which give extra legroom are seats 73 to 77 and 1 & 2 apart from Coach F which has the standard class disabled access and extra space for seats 1 to 10 and 73 to 78.

 

Better than GWR who cram 84 into Standard Class though.

Thanks, Richard, appreciate that.

 

The seating plan differs to the one when I booked the seats online 3 months ago on the VTEC site, which is weird. Hopefully it has changed now.

 

Mal

[Ken.W]

From last Friday VTEC are hiring a Class 90 from DBC until further notice to supplement the Class 91s.

 

Due to the lower speed, it will normally be used only on Kings X - Newark or Leeds services, though is cleared for all EC routes as the 91s

(except, apparently they're prohibited from Hitchin Flyover, and in event of any Cambridge diversion must use the flat junction).

 

It's additionally restricted though by only Kings X drivers having been trained to operate them, which means it won't get beyond Newcastle, and is unlikely to venture that far on the few remaining Newcastle terminators as it would require the return working to also be a Kings X driver.

 

The loco used will only be one of a pool of four which have been fitted with DRA

[mcowgill]

Due to the lower speed, it will normally be used only on Kings X - Newark or Leeds services, though is cleared for all EC routes as the 91s

(except, apparently they're prohibited from Hitchin Flyover, and in event of any Cambridge diversion must use the flat junction).

 

 

I suspect the lack of wires between Ely and Peterborough will be more of an issue for electric locos used on VEC Cambridge diversions

[Ken.W]

I suspect the lack of wires between Ely and Peterborough will be more of an issue for electric locos used on VEC Cambridge diversions

Any such diversions would be diesel hauled, but the notice regarding Class 90 use specifically states they're prohibited from Hitchin Flyover and must use the flat junction.

This is perhaps of more interest than the slim chance of EC actually diverting one that way, they'd more likely use an HST as happened the other Sunday when a GN had an altercation with some cows on Stilton Fen

[pete_mcfarlane]

Is there a specific reason why 90s are banned from the flyover? Or does each type of traction need explicit clearance (backed by paperwork etc) to use the 'new' route, and it hasn't been done yet for this particular class?

[Ken.W]

Is there a specific reason why 90s are banned from the flyover? Or does each type of traction need explicit clearance (backed by paperwork etc) to use the 'new' route, and it hasn't been done yet for this particular class?

Don't know sorry, all it says is that they are.

 

Hadn't thought of that, but I suspect you're probably right though, as they're cleared everywhere else the 91s are.

Specific route clearance is required, as demonstrated by the recent incident of FS nearly being banned from a railtour it was booked on over the new Borders Railway for not having the correct paperwork.

So could simply be the case that as they're rare on the EC and diverting one via Cambridge's unlikely, there hasn't been seen to be a need to do the paperwork for them over the new flyover.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Ken.W

[Ken.W]

It's additionally restricted though by only Kings X drivers having been trained to operate them, which means it won't get beyond Newcastle, and is unlikely to venture that far on the few remaining Newcastle terminators as it would require the return working to also be a Kings X driver.

Ooops

Well, having said that, my first sight of one just after 1 this afternoon, and it was Southbound at Darlington.

Was also acting as a thunderbird, on the front (DVT) end of the train, and with a dead 91 on the rear.

The 90 was a DB red/grey one

[PenrithBeacon]

East Coast are using a hired in ex East Midlands HST set that appears on a regular basis, especially at Weekends. The interior is 'basic' when compared to the VEC sets.

 

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3717/10577944253_1b7845d264_c.jpg

 

Mike Wiltshire

I recently saw two EM HST power cars with a Virgin East coast train at Werrington. I have previously ( two years or so ago) seen a complete EM HST set at Retford.

 

Regards

[great central]

I recently saw two EM HST power cars with a Virgin East coast train at Werrington. I have previously ( two years or so ago) seen a complete EM HST set at Retford.

 

Regards

A couple of days ago a full XC set passed through Grantham northbound

[Ken.W]

From VTEC's Amazine magazine;

 

For the Fallen
On the 17 November, our iconic locomotive will be taking part in a very special service to London. We have teamed up with The Fusiliers across the East Coast Route to raise money for the Royal British Legion.



Starting at Berwick Station at 6.00, For the Fallen will be met by a Guard of Honour at each calling point, and greeted in London by a drum corps. The Fusiliers, veterans and community ambassadors will also be at all calling stations and on board collecting for the charity.

It’s one not to be missed, so if you can, please join us! Take plenty of pictures and share them on Twitter and Yammer using the hashtag #forthefallen.

For the Fallen Stopping Pattern
Berwick   6.00
Newcastle   6.55
Durham   7.08
Darlington   7.31
York   8.02
Retford   8.36
King’s Cross   10.02

Please note For the Fallen will be running in reverse formation for the day.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Ken.W

[Ken.W]

For the Fallen

On the 17 November, our iconic locomotive will be taking part in a very special service to London. We have teamed up with The Fusiliers across the East Coast Route to raise money for the Royal British Legion.

 

 

 Looks as though The Reserves will be called out for this working tomorrow,

For the Fallen has, fallen down today.

 

Was observed standing at Newcastle early afternoon on a failed KX - Edinburgh, 1E06, which had been terminated at Darlington due to activating the 'Gotcha' wheel flats detection at Sessay. Set had then been worked forward at reduced speed.

It's return working, 1E17, 13:30 E'bgh - KX was also seen to be canceled.

Late afternoon it was seen on it's way to Edinburgh ecs, presumably still at reduced speed, looped for service trains to pass, and presumably on it's way to the Craigentinny wheel lathe.

 

Don't know if 'For the Fallen' is itself affected by flats, or if it's just on the coaches, but this still leaves it in the wrong place for tomorrow as 1Y14's set comes from Heaton.

 

However, 'BoB', which was working 1E22, 16:00 E'bgh - KX, was later seen terminated at Newcastle following a set swap with the 1N21 KX - N'cle terminating service which then goes to Heaton. This means that 'BoB' is now at Heaton tonight,  available for 1Y14 tomorrrow......

[Ken.W]

For the Fallen

On the 17 November, our iconic locomotive will be taking part in a very special service to London. We have teamed up with The Fusiliers across the East Coast Route to raise money for the Royal British Legion.

 

I didn't manage to see this working today, but looking it up, as expected following yesterdays events, the train was in fact worked by 91110 in place of 91111.

91111 now appears to be on the 09:00 Edinburgh - KX.

It was good to see that following the failure involving 91111 yesterday, efforts were made to at least get 91110 in the correct place to take over.

 

PS In above post 'BoB' is my affectionate nickname for 91110 ... Battle of Britain Memorial Flight

[cravensdmufan]

Quote from The Sunday Times Business Section yesterday (which was tacked on the end of an article suggesting the Transport Secretary wants to split up the GWR franchise).

 

 

"Stagecoach has pumped a further £34m of debt into the struggling East Coast main line between London and Scotland as passenger growth continues to disappoint.  The company owns 90% of the franchise, with the rest held by Virgin Trains. They won the franchise in 2014 with a promise to pay the government £3.3bn over eight years. Stagecoach said the cash injection would support efforts to increase passenger numbers."

 

Haven't seen this reported elsewhere.  The ST Business Section tends to always report accurately.

[RANGERS]

Quote from The Sunday Times Business Section yesterday (which was tacked on the end of an article suggesting the Transport Secretary wants to split up the GWR franchise).

 

 

"Stagecoach has pumped a further £34m of debt into the struggling East Coast main line between London and Scotland as passenger growth continues to disappoint.  The company owns 90% of the franchise, with the rest held by Virgin Trains. They won the franchise in 2014 with a promise to pay the government £3.3bn over eight years. Stagecoach said the cash injection would support efforts to increase passenger numbers."

 

Haven't seen this reported elsewhere.  The ST Business Section tends to always report accurately.

 

Im not sure what kind of passenger growth is expected, or indeed where they would put them if they did materialise. My recent experience of VEC has seen crowded trains with little room for any extra passengers. I've travelled at all hours along most stretches of the route but have rarely seen too any empty seats, certainly less than my more limited experience on VWC.

 

I suspect that the numbers promised are difficult, maybe impossible to achieve (See GNER/ N Exp/ East Coast Trains for details) and that only significant increases in fares (by reducing the availability of discounted fares), albeit at a cost in decreasing load factor, might improve things.

 

As an aside, I've not experienced any of the issues others have mentioned, punctuality has been good, service in first and standard up to the mark and the trains generally performed as expected but it has to be said, they are looking slightly tired. Pick of the bunch was a run from Edinburgh on an HST which amply illustrated why these sets deserve to be with us for a while yet.

[Richard E]

In the last fortnight trains have been short formed and cancelled due to "More trains requiring maintenance than usual".

 

Edit to add that HST sets have also been substituted for 225's at short notice in the same period.

Edited January 25, 2017 by Richard E

[RANGERS]

In the last fortnight trains have been short formed and cancelled due to "More trains requiring maintenance than usual".

 

Edit to add that HST sets have also been substituted for 225's at short notice in the same period.

Depends on personal preference I guess but HST substitution would be fine for me.

[cravensdmufan]

I travelled Peterborough to Edinburgh and return today - 07.00 ex KX well loaded until York, medium to Newcastle and then almost no one onboard to Edinburgh.  The two of us were the only passengers customers in our Mk4!

 

Much the same situation again southbound.

 

Both trains arrived spot on time to the minute.  A great journey both ways, with good catering. 

[pete_mcfarlane]

Im not sure what kind of passenger growth is expected, or indeed where they would put them if they did materialise. 

And how much of the growth is expected to occur once the new class 800/801 units are in service, and there's extra capacity for passengers? 

[RANGERS]

And how much of the growth is expected to occur once the new class 800/801 units are in service, and there's extra capacity for passengers?

 

Hard to say but as the franchise will be around the mid-point when they appear, there's a lot of ground to make up in the second half.

 

Also, what will be the benefit of the new units and is it enough to boost numbers?

Edited January 25, 2017 by RANGERS

[cravensdmufan]

Also, what will be the benefit of the new units and is it enough to boost numbers?

It'll be hard to improve on the comfort and spacious Mk3 and Mk4.

 

We were fortunate to travel 1st Class today and it was nice to have seats with nice big tables adjacent to a full window.

 

Haven't seen any photos of interior layout of new units yet.  Must check that out.

[Purley Oaks]

I travelled Peterborough to Edinburgh and return today - 07.00 ex KX well loaded until York, medium to Newcastle and then almost no one onboard to Edinburgh.  The two of us were the only passengers customers in our Mk4!

 

Much the same situation again southbound.

 

Passengers travelling Edinburgh-KX tend to travel south on the earlier trains, and return on the later ones.

In the last fortnight trains have been short formed and cancelled due to "More trains requiring maintenance than usual".

 

Edit to add that HST sets have also been substituted for 225's at short notice in the same period.

Yep, a couple of weeks ago again was booked onto a 225 seat with extra legroom only for it to be altered to a 125 without the legroom. But able to find one so no real probs.

 

Quote from The Sunday Times Business Section yesterday (which was tacked on the end of an article suggesting the Transport Secretary wants to split up the GWR franchise).

 

 

"Stagecoach has pumped a further £34m of debt into the struggling East Coast main line between London and Scotland as passenger growth continues to disappoint.  The company owns 90% of the franchise, with the rest held by Virgin Trains. They won the franchise in 2014 with a promise to pay the government £3.3bn over eight years. Stagecoach said the cash injection would support efforts to increase passenger numbers."

 

Haven't seen this reported elsewhere.  The ST Business Section tends to always report accurately.

VTEC have recently put up a number of advertising hoardings in Edinburgh persuading us that it is easier to take the train to London than to fly. Not £34m pounds-worth, though, by a stretch. But as one of the other posters noted, the trains are often rammed from KX-York or Newcastle.

 

Mal