Purley Oaks Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Received a mail from East Coast on Monday advising the franchise transfer to Virgin Trains East Coast on 1 March. The East Coast Rewards scheme is closing on 28 February although their points can be used until 30 September 2015; Virgin Trains East Coast will also give details of their rewards scheme (Nectar points and Virgin Atlantic) and how East Coast Rewards points can be transferred. According to the East Coast mail, you'll be able to use Nectar points to pay for Virgin Trains East Coast journeys - at the moment Nectar points can only be used for Orient Express, Eurostar and easyJet. I've been very happy with East Coast so am sorry to see them disappear, but it looks as though Virgin are giving regular customers who collect EC Rewards points a good deal - we'll know for sure when the details are officially announced by VTEC. Let's hope so. Mal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 East Coast Trains will be a hard act to follow! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westie7 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Yeah I got that too, will wait and see what the deal is Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Richard E Posted January 21, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Sorry, but for me East Coast will be an easy act to follow. Don't get me wrong, the staff on trains are great. And I have had that comment echoed by other regular commuters. I have seen GNER, National Express and Direct Operated Railways all run the franchise. The worst was National Express, GNER have, so far, been the best. Both NE and DOR, when they first took over, cut maintenance levels to the bone and reliability suffered badly. DOR, during the franchise bidding period put a lot of extra money back into maintenance but seem to have stopped doing so now the recipient has been decided. At least, judging by the reliability of the sets that is what appears to have been going on. Station staff vary, some are good (the booking office boys and girls at my home station for example), some are invisible (platform staff at my home station) and some are power crazed (one person at my destination station who throws a major fit when you are 5mm over the yellow line on the platform and, at Christmas, threatened to get some Network Rail staff banned from using the trains and thrown off the station). I have had 3 months of total chaos from EC between September and Christmas trying to book seat reservations where they have proved themselves to be incapable of a simple job of booking a seat reservation on a specific train between two specific stations stated on a booking form. Instead they booked it on a different train for a different time to a different destination for a total of 20 return journeys per booking form. They managed to repeat this for a total of 3 successive booking requests! It has got to the point where, for three months, I will be routing my requests through a senior manager at the request of EC. The trains are rarely, if ever, on time during peak hours. The best excuse yet that I have had is that they have too many passengers trying to board their trains to keep them running on time. In the last year the excuses have varied from those out of their control (signal failure, points failure, broken windscreen, slow train in front, broken down train in front) through to those they can control (brake problems, door failure, aircon failure, unspecified train fault). EC have denied all responsibility for the parking at my home station both in long and short term car parks (mind, they are happy to take your money for you to park and threaten Byelaw 14 prosecutions for breaches of parking rules) yet the local council have confirmed to me that traffic management in the station area, including parking, is the responsibility of the station operator. Having said all that 2014 has been the best year in the 8 years I have used the EC services to commute, my delay compensation was just 3.6% of my ticket cost when, for the previous 4 years it was around 10% consistently. When NE ran the ECML service my delay compensation was around 7%. So, purely on that basis EC has been the worst operator I have experienced for reliability as a commuter. I only saw a few months of GNER running the service and I was not paying for my ticket at that time, I have no figures to compare as a result. I am pleased to see the change to the Rewards scheme as it will be a scheme I can use instead of amassing points without seeing any benefit. I have travelled off peak with EC and it is a totally different experience - at that point they are good so for the walk up occasional user they may well be difficult to follow. Incidentally the staff wanted to see the Keolis/Eurostar East Coast Limited (Keolis (UK) Limited and Eurostar International Limited) bid succeed. The one the were all dreading was East Coast Trains Ltd (First Group plc). They are reasonably satisfied with the Inter City Railways Limited (Stagecoach Transport Holdings Limited and Virgin Holdings Limited) bid. And that has come direct from staff in talking to them. Edited January 21, 2015 by Richard E 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I get the impression that some people think EC is the best thing ever simply because they are state run. Their actual performance doesn't matter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westie7 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I would agree with the comments on maintenance. AB-KX HST coach sets are a nightmare. Power sockets, vestibule doors and aircon in K, L, M are a running joke. Also wheel flats are a regular feature. Now I remember when Virgin took on WC pre Pendo days, they stated it was a gamble butting their brand name on such old and tired rolling stock. Have to say when I have to take ScR to Edinburgh then get on a Mk4 to continue south, they are much better maintained Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B18 DUD Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 So will we get the Pendolino on our side of the country,,,, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Richard E Posted January 21, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 21, 2015 Unfortunately all the franchise documents seem to suggest no change to the stock until 2020 although I have, once again, heard rumours in the media that we will get IEP on test runs - whether they will be public services is another matter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 You will be getting IEP, IIRC they will all be in service by 2020. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Now I remember when Virgin took on WC pre Pendo days, they stated it was a gamble butting their brand name on such old and tired rolling stock. I do remember they made a bit thing about how old and tired the rolling stock was, even though most of it (the Mk3s and class 90s) was only about 10-15 years old at the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) According to the East Coast mail, you'll be able to use Nectar points to pay for Virgin Trains East Coast journeys - at the moment Nectar points can only be used for Orient Express, Eurostar and easyJet. The nectar fulfillment team are still awaiting details of how to import the third party (East Coast DOR) points into nectar However, spending nectar points will be available from 02 March at a rate of 200 points per £1 and will only apply to online ticket purchases Collecting nectar points will not change, apart from the change of routes (in the same way as Cross Country was integrated into Virgin Trains) The East Coast website (and Domain Name) will transfer straight to Virgin Trains There is already duplicate content, but this page is (as yet) not directly linked http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/virgintrainseastcoast/ Edited January 22, 2015 by mjkerr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Richard E Posted January 22, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 22, 2015 You will be getting IEP, IIRC they will all be in service by 2020. I did say no stock changes until 2020 ... I won't see the new stock then, my commute finishes, at present, on 31/12/17. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I did say no stock changes until 2020 ... I won't see the new stock then, my commute finishes, at present, on 31/12/17. 2020 is the date for full fleet service; the first sets will appear long before that. I believe several complete trains have been assembled in Japan, and are already on their way to the UK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Unfortunately all the franchise documents seem to suggest no change to the stock until 2020 In the summer of 2015 the HSTs will undergo (yet another) refurbishment, which will see them in use until 2018 This is really ironic as every new franchisee has had to perform this as soon as they have taken over the franchise The current lease ends on 31 March 2015 and has been extended to December 2018 There will be a major timetable change in December 2016 (external franchises), December 2018 (route changes) and December 2020 (Full IEP) IEP is due to be introduced throughout 2018 in a rolling program, on a like-for-like replacement basis, and will allow the HSTs to be returned to RoSCo (which suggests priority is being given to completing and introducing the Bi-Mode version) Once the HSTs have been replaced the remaining IEP will be allocated to known under capacity services, which will release some IC225 sets From December 2018 additional services will be introduced Although full IEP availability should be completed late in 2020 the first full timetable won't be applied until December 2020 The biggest initial change will be in 2019 when several non-stop long distance services will be introduced, due to the increase in fleet size It is expected these services will be operated by the retained short formation IC225 sets Kings Cross - Leeds (two in each direction on weekdays) Kings Cross - Edinburgh (two) Kings Cross - Newcastle (three) Ironically, InterCity used to operate similar services which GNER continued, and these were then passed over to HSTs There isn't much journey time saving, but in the same way as the 16:30 Euston - Glasgow can be used to promote a specific route journey time Edited January 22, 2015 by mjkerr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Of course there will be new trains...they run to London, after all....... Now if you live in our area and don't want to go to either capital, you have Pacers to look forward to........ 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Reading the latest Modern Railways very interesting article about this train I came across the fact that it will not have a buffet.The manderins at the DFT have decreed 1st class at seat and a trolley service for the people in cattle class ,but the new incumbertants want a buffet it will be interesting to see how DAFT respond to this .This is typical of civil servants who travel first class only and seem to have no heed of ordinary peoples requirements when they travel.Is it not about time that operators have a say as to what goes inside these new trains at least Virgin specified like them or not what went into the Pendolinos and they do at least do the job well unlike the EC stock .Much was made about public input into the new franchise but I don't think they listened in Whitehall. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Richard E Posted January 22, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) MJK - Thanks, so ICR take over on 31st March (the day the HST lease expires) and the HST refurbishment starts in mid year so only a 3 or 4 month delay there. HST's are pretty few and far between on my journey so it is likely I will not travel on a refurbished set very often. A timetable change in December 2016 is potentially not good news, the last one really messed up my journey times so I am not looking forward to that. At least I have a heads up that they may make my commute even more bothersome. Of course it 'could' equally so improve it. Finally I won't, on your timings, see IEP as I originally said as my commute will have finished by the time they are introduced. Edited January 22, 2015 by Richard E Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 The nectar fulfillment team are still awaiting details of how to import the third party (East Coast DOR) points into nectar However, spending nectar points will be available from 02 March at a rate of 200 points per £1 and will only apply to online ticket purchases Collecting nectar points will not change, apart from the change of routes (in the same way as Cross Country was integrated into Virgin Trains) The East Coast website (and Domain Name) will transfer straight to Virgin Trains There is already duplicate content, but this page is (as yet) not directly linked http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/virgintrainseastcoast/ And in the email I got from East Coast, it stated (obviously a new operator handout passed to them) that Virgin would be the 1st operator to offer Nectar points for rail journeys! More blatant propaganda - FCC were doing Nectar for months before handing the keys to Thameslink Great Northern (who don't do Nectar). As I commute (at irregular times, so no long season) I now by my ticket online, fro Huntingdon or Ely to Kings Cross, from.....First Great Western (how wierd is that?). They, like other First Group franchises, continue to offer Nectar online. Don't ever be taken in by propaganda methinks. Stewart 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted January 22, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 22, 2015 Reading the latest Modern Railways very interesting article about this train I came across the fact that it will not have a buffet.The manderins at the DFT have decreed 1st class at seat and a trolley service for the people in cattle class ,but the new incumbertants want a buffet it will be interesting to see how DAFT respond to this .This is typical of civil servants who travel first class only and seem to have no heed of ordinary peoples requirements when they travel.Is it not about time that operators have a say as to what goes inside these new trains at least Virgin specified like them or not what went into the Pendolinos and they do at least do the job well unlike the EC stock .Much was made about public input into the new franchise but I don't think they listened in Whitehall. This is hardly surprising news. As has been stated elsewhere Govia & current Brighton line commuters are distinctly un-impressed by the interior finishes / lack of wi-fi / lack of power points / lack of tables / quality of seating that are included in the new Thameslink stock (class 800) and they like he IEP had the detailed specification dawn up by Whitehall, not people actually involved in operating the routes they will be used on. While I'm sure the new franchise will do their hardest to get changes made, people have to remember that the contract with Hitachi is between them and the DfT, NOT the previous, or the future operator. Consequently its all a done deal from Hitachi's point of view and as with Siemens, if the new franchise want to make changes then they will have to get the DfT to pay Hitachi accordingly. As for getting DfT decisions altered, airborne pork springs to mind....... particularly if it means spending money and annoying their bosses in the Treasury. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 A timetable change in December 2016 is potentially not good news, the last one really messed up my journey times so I am not looking forward to that. At least I have a heads up that they may make my commute even more bothersome. Of course it 'could' equally so improve it. I am of the opposite opinion, but have yet to see details The changes are being made due to the changes with external franchises, and is to ensure that primary connections are retained There are always pros and cons with such changes What really gets me is that once the final Inter City East Coast timetable commences in December 2018, the external franchise timetables will NOT be reviewed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Reading the latest Modern Railways very interesting article about this train I came across the fact that it will not have a buffet The manderins at the DFT have decreed 1st class at seat and a trolley service for the people in cattle class ,but the new incumbertants want a buffet it will be interesting to see how DAFT respond to this The DfT have already advised that it is up to the franchisee what level of on-train service to provide DfT provide a rolling stock template, but the franchisee does not have to follow it (only provide it as a minumum service level) FGW have already advised they will not be changing the template, and this is where the confusion is occuring Virgin Rail have already advised they will be installing a buffet towards the middle of the train, at the sacrafice of 32 standard seats and one luggage bay, with NO at-seat trolley service on some services Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted January 22, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 22, 2015 So will we get the Pendolino on our side of the country,,,, I flippin hope not, claustrophobic, uncomfortable and plasticky. every set on east coast, even an unrefurbished HST, is better than a pendelino in my view. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 The biggest initial change will be in 2019 when several non-stop long distance services will be introduced, due to the increase in fleet size It is expected these services will be operated by the retained short formation IC225 sets Kings Cross - Leeds (two in each direction on weekdays) Kings Cross - Edinburgh (two) Kings Cross - Newcastle (three) Ironically, InterCity used to operate similar services which GNER continued, and these were then passed over to HSTs There isn't much journey time saving, but in the same way as the 16:30 Euston - Glasgow can be used to promote a specific route journey time I can't help thinking that those 225 sets would be better used running extra peak hours services to Peterborough and Grantham. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purley Oaks Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 And in the email I got from East Coast, it stated (obviously a new operator handout passed to them) that Virgin would be the 1st operator to offer Nectar points for rail journeys!They, like other First Group franchises, continue to offer Nectar online. Stewart Hi Stewart I think that VTEC are the first to offer ticket payment online by Nectar points; we are already able to collect Nectar points online from other operators, as you mention. Mal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 in the email I got from East Coast, it stated (obviously a new operator handout passed to them) that Virgin would be the 1st operator to offer Nectar points for rail journeys! If you read the eMail, does it not actually state that Virgin East Coast will be the first train company on which you can both collent and SPEND Nectar Points (at the moment you can only collect) The East Coast Rewards Points page certainly says this Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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