East Coast Main Line to Virgin Trains East Coast

[lmsforever]

Whats with all the anti Virgin rants on here I have never had a problem with there services or staff and the refurbed coaches look very good to me bright and the seats add to the overall ambience its about time our trains starting looking upmarket and with an executive feel would all you antis want to go back to dirty smelly coaches as were around in the fifties and sixties! As to the comment about GWR I travelled first class to and from Cornwall and found the seats in first class excellent and very comfortable what just do you want an armchair! I use first class to Glsgow and find the seats extremely comfortable for the length of journey ,if you want uncomfortable seating read Modern Railways Feb issue about the DFT,s wonder train sounds like you will have justified complaints as the seats sound awful so enjoy the Virgin coaches while you can.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Some of us can only afford standard class, if that.....

[lmsforever]

Use a rail card and plan in advance .

[Bon Accord]

Whats with all the anti Virgin rants on here I have never had a problem with there services or staff and the refurbed coaches look very good to me bright and the seats add to the overall ambience its about time our trains starting looking upmarket and with an executive feel would all you antis want to go back to dirty smelly coaches as were around in the fifties and sixties! As to the comment about GWR I travelled first class to and from Cornwall and found the seats in first class excellent and very comfortable what just do you want an armchair! I use first class to Glsgow and find the seats extremely comfortable for the length of journey ,if you want uncomfortable seating read Modern Railways Feb issue about the DFT,s wonder train sounds like you will have justified complaints as the seats sound awful so enjoy the Virgin coaches while you can.

 

So you think the choice is between the somewhat naff Virgin seat replacement (there's been very little other refurbishment) or something which you imagine resembles an outhouse?

Personally I quite liked the "Mallard" refurb and aside from renewing those seats/furnishings which are worn I see little reason to move to the poorer Virgin attempt which as usual with them is all about style and visual impact over any meaningful substance.

The staff are much the same from GNER days and therefore remain mostly very good, although as time goes on the difference in levels of service and attention to detail between the older hands and the newer starts is becoming ever more noticeable.

[31A]

Of course whether travelling either first or standard class, neither platform 6 or 8 at Leeds are particularly close to the new southern entrance to Leeds Station which opened on 3rd January.

 

Well you can't have it all ways!  Whilst the new entrance will be a huge improvement for passengers requiring that side of the railway line, it'll never be the main entrance and is only a pedestrian entrance.

[newbryford]

Re platforms 8 and 9.

If you walk out the other way rather than through the station it is actually quite good. Far less crowded. Not many people know you can do that and there seems to be a general air of confusion.

They also have a habit of not announcing departures from these platforms until 10 minutes before departure time. Even when the train is at the platform long before that.Those in the know  gather at the top of the steps in the hope that the train will depart from these platforms rather than wait in the concourse area. I suppose there is an unwritten rule. No platform showing on screen 20 minutes before departure means platform 8 or 9.

Bernard

 

Same at Euston, but that's often so there aren't hoards wanting to board as the train is being cleaned for the return. I think they'd rather have the pax on the concourse than queuing down by the barriers. It also means that they don't have to have staff on the barrier to hold the customers back until boarding time.

 

www.realtimetrains.co.uk  is your friend as the platform will be on there - usually about 20 minutes before departure, so ahead of the main announcement

 

I was at Euston in December and along with about three others, strolled down ahead of the masses - I didn't have a reserved seat, so headed direct to coach U in the Pendo as it's all unreserved seating. (Note - coach U in an 11-car set and F in a 9-car set. Easy to spot the difference without counting the carriages - 9 car Pendos are 3900xx and 11 car are 3901xx)

 

Cheers,

Mick

[lmsforever]

I used the Mallard configuration and thought it horrible dark uncomfortable and thoroughly disagreeable the new interiors look good and the first class seats look okay ,just what do you antis want it seems that just because its Virgin its no good .I like Chiltern as a company but find the seats on their trains hard and uncomfortable but they are changing so its all progress which is good.But you wait till you sit on a seat in an 800 according to Roger Ford they unfit for purpose and probably only last three years due to the use of flat cloth another DFT edict and something a TOC cannot change now that's when you can start complaining plus it seems the seating and interiors look awful looking at the pictures MR so you all have fun on the way!

[Bon Accord]

The new Virgin first class seats present a far more gloomy interior compared to the Mallard sets, the latter not only have a lighter feel but the seats are also far superior in terms of comfort.

[Richard E]

From the pictures I've seen the StagecoachVirgin (for Virgin in truth only hold a 10% stake in the enterprise so I feel a comment of cowboy by ownership, cowboy by nature coming on but not in relation to front line staff) 'refurb' is in dark colours, black and possibly a very dark, almost black, blue. Compared to the current grey (impracticable by the way) and blue in standard class the new look is dull and drab. I will reserve final judgement when I see it in the flesh.

 

As has already been said not all of us can afford first class, most of us struggle just to afford standard class. And I have looked and unless I am very, very, very lucky and plan far further ahead than I reasonably need to for my commute to work, using a railcard or offers is dearer than buying an annual season ticket. Not all of us travel on 'jollies' you know.

 

It is very apparent as a regular traveller, and has been confirmed by train staff, that Stagecoach/Virgin seem to have cut the maintenance budget yet again, the comment was that they have never known reliability be so poor. It defies logic. In fact this week has seen the same coach (I've checked the running number) without heat, wifi or working sockets for at least a week without any action being taken to correct it. As a commuter on this line for 9 years I have finally been drawn to written complaints about the service provided by Stagecoach/Virgin to an extent that NEVER arose in the days of East Coast, NXEC or GNER. And I will say again it is the back office stuff away from the traveller that suggests someone needs to hold their hand and tell them where the brewery is ...

[lmsforever]

Traveling every day on the same line will throw up problems but if maintenance is being cut this wrong and should be addressed, I go on jollies nowadays because I am happily retired and enjoy my journeys on the network .The perception of what trains look is very different between the general public and enthusiasts we look at the detail but the man on the Clapham Omnibus is generally only concerned that he has a seat,a cup of tea,a butty and its clean in the coach ,and lastly the journey is on time.We have this sort of discussion on here before but at least Stagecoach are making an effort to improve the environment ,you wait till the 800,s arrive tthen I think you will have reason to complain ,have a look at Modern Railways Febuary issue.

[Roddy Angus]

As a regular user of the London-Edinburgh train over the past 9 years, my observation is that it depended on whether you are on a through train or not.  If you were on the Aberdeen train than it tended to stop at platform 19, so the 1st class carriages would be closest to the centre of the station.  Otherwise the train normally terminated at platform 2 where the first class carriages were at the end of the platform and furthest away from the centre of the station.

 

The increased use of the old suburban platforms (on the Market Street side of the station) predated the change to Virgin, so I don't think you can blame them for that.

 

Roddy

[sng7]

The plan is to put two new platforms capable of taking terminating trains from London where the disused taxi rank is, I believe the planning application is in at the moment, (All so to extend a couple of west facing bays as well) This won't solve the problem of fist class being a long walk away but it should bring more of these trains into the station as london trains will uses these allowing use of the through platforms by the new longer Edinburgh to Glasgow trains and the HSTs when they get up here.

[Richard E]

He, he I don't have to enjoy or suffer the 800's as I'll have stopped commuting by the time they are introduced. However I'll have a look at the article ....

 

I still stand by my view of the new interior looking dull and drab from the pictures of an actual installation.

[lmsforever]

Lucky you get your railcard and come and join us who have seen the light and kicked work into touch!

[Richard E]

Looked at the article now, it looks no better or worse than the Virgin/Stagecoach effort on the 225. What they will be like 'in the flesh' who knows. Same to be said about the Virgin/Stagecoach refresh though and I have already said that, despite my first impression of it not being nice, I'll wait until I see the real thing. Seats look uncomfortable on both, the pictures give the impression that they will be being hard and unyielding.

 

An early finish is always tempting ....

Edited January 20, 2016 by Richard E

[cravensdmufan]

Sunday Times Business section today, page 7.

 

"Curse of East Coast strikes again".

 

A very interesting and comprehensive half page article reporting that Stagecoach, the 90% stakeholder in this franchise, have only disclosed the "barest details about it's performance....but one thing is clear: it is underperforming badly".  It appears that  having pledged a £3.3bn premium to the Government over the eight years of the franchise, they are now 14 months in and all is not well. 

 

Another case of over promising and under delivering?

[4630]

.

Edited November 13, 2016 by 4630

[cravensdmufan]

RMT statement on Virgin East Coast's worsening finances: https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-responds-to-virgin-east-coast-reports/

 

(Shame the photo is of a West Coast Pendolino!)

[jjb1970]

RMT statement on Virgin East Coast's worsening finances: https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-responds-to-virgin-east-coast-reports/

 

(Shame the photo is of a West Coast Pendolino!)

You sort of expect the general media to just use a picture of any old train to illustrate rail articles. You really would expect the RMT to know the difference between the WCML and ECML and between a Pendolino and a train appropriate to the ECML though.

[jjb1970]

On the Class 800 IEP, that to me is an object lesson in why train specification and procurement should be in the hands of the companies who will operate the things and not micro-managed by DafT. Hitachi seem to get a lot of bad press on the whole IEP thing yet they've been contracted to supply the train DafT asked them to provide, all of the madness stems from DafT, not Hitachi. Given the pedigree of Hitachi I'd expect the IEP to be technically sound and manufactured to a good standard, the interior is another matter but I'll wait and see before making my mind up.

[60159]

On trips to London from Perth to visit family, my wife and I find the no change service (Inverness/Kings X) leaving Perth around 10am and returning from Kings X at noon highly convenient and usually offering the best fare. It is Virgin East Coast operated and uses the still excellent 125 sets - or excellent until the other week. My wife travelled north on the Wednesday and complained about the pretty dreadful condition of the first class coach as did a number of other passengers. For reasons I'll not go into, we were both then travelling back down the next day and of course I anticipated correctly the same 125 set (power car 43316 at south end). The first class coach was absolutely dreadful and even if it had been offered as standard class, passengers would still have had the same cause for complaint. The train staff were all excellent and catering reasonable. When I commented to them about the condition of the rolling stock they said it was "hired in"! It was an absolute shocker. Fortunately the return on the Sunday was a set that was of the type and standard that we normally experience and although not in its first flush of youth, comfortable, clean and intact!

[Reorte]

Sad to hear that the Inverness part is going downhill (hope it was just a one-off for reasons beyond their control). I've done the Edinburgh to Inverness leg of it a couple of times with a very reasonably priced first class ticket and found it a pleasant enough journey that I was disappointed when we arrived, almost my perfect journey.

[Coach bogie]

On trips to London from Perth to visit family, my wife and I find the no change service (Inverness/Kings X) leaving Perth around 10am and returning from Kings X at noon highly convenient and usually offering the best fare. It is Virgin East Coast operated and uses the still excellent 125 sets - or excellent until the other week. My wife travelled north on the Wednesday and complained about the pretty dreadful condition of the first class coach as did a number of other passengers. For reasons I'll not go into, we were both then travelling back down the next day and of course I anticipated correctly the same 125 set (power car 43316 at south end). The first class coach was absolutely dreadful and even if it had been offered as standard class, passengers would still have had the same cause for complaint. The train staff were all excellent and catering reasonable. When I commented to them about the condition of the rolling stock they said it was "hired in"! It was an absolute shocker. Fortunately the return on the Sunday was a set that was of the type and standard that we normally experience and although not in its first flush of youth, comfortable, clean and intact!

 East Coast are using a hired in ex East Midlands HST  set that appears on a regular basis, especially at Weekends. The interior is 'basic' when compared to the VEC sets.

 

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3717/10577944253_1b7845d264_c.jpg

 

Mike Wiltshire

Edited May 2, 2016 by Coach bogie

[The Stationmaster]

An interesting piece.

 

The cynic in me though wonders if it's subtly timed to influence the potential outcome of the Office of Rail and Road's determination of the open access applications that are still outstanding on the east coast route.

 

From a personal point of view and my location in Huddersfield, I gave up on the route from Leeds to Kings Cross some time ago as, in my experience, the performance was so unpredictable compared to the alternative from Manchester Piccadilly to Euston.

 

From the 'Sunday Times' article - assuming the numbers in it are correct - it would appear to be not just about that as it said they are well short of their revenue growth predictions forecasts which in contract payment terms are compounded over the period of the franchise so if one year falls short that will simply get worse as the years role on.

 

some of their promised improvements have already been shelved according to the article and it also suggest the 'cost cutting' might come next - which is perhaps why the RMT has issued its statement?

 

All sorts of factors such as the effect of oil price decline on Aberdeen traffic, terrorist attacks and lack of season ticket revenue are given but if they've still achieved the reported 4.9% growth that hardly suggests to me a totally poor market situation.  Trouble is that their bid numbers are based on an annual growth of 8%-12% - which strikes me as utterly ludicrous but obviously the bean counters in Marsham St were suitably beguiled by the Virgin name to think it was realistic.  Equally the 'paper hints that lack of growth might also be acquainted with lack of living up to promise (to passengers etc) and I reckon judging by various comments (here & elsewhere) that there could be a lot in that.

[4630]

.

Edited November 13, 2016 by 4630