Ray M Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I have just googled D7089 Laira. and i can tell you it certainly moved around in that line. If its not the same western, other contenders are 1003 1006 1020. 1 photo shows D7089 at the buffer stops, while another shows it in the middle of a line up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 D1020 was cut a year earlier, so any photos with that loco in must be late 73/early 74. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Also front wheelset of D1035 is in exactly the same position on each side - look at the four holes - exactly the same on both views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray M Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 2 more from Plymouth, Sorry no numbers. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 "Just" lost a beautiful slide of a BSYP Hymek at Southampton tonight http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=381156742930 Slides of this calibre are very rare - congrats whoever won it! Envious. Neil I saw that too but it was way too expensive. I already have lots of hydraulic images, which may be found in the following Flickr albums: Class 14: https://flic.kr/s/aHsjbMXFhc Classes 22 and 35: https://flic.kr/s/aHsiTCJ8yB Classes 41 and 43: https://flic.kr/s/aHsiUgJsNJ Class 42: https://flic.kr/s/aHsiTCimLs Class 52: https://flic.kr/s/aHsiTCiSPC 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 And David Christie has some quality hydraulic photos, also on Flickr, https://www.flickr.com/photos/david_christie/sets/72157625740408533/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted February 28, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 28, 2015 I saw that too but it was way too expensive. I already have lots of hydraulic images, which may be found in the following Flickr albums: Class 14: https://flic.kr/s/aHsjbMXFhc Classes 22 and 35: https://flic.kr/s/aHsiTCJ8yB Classes 41 and 43: https://flic.kr/s/aHsiUgJsNJ Class 42: https://flic.kr/s/aHsiTCimLs Class 52: https://flic.kr/s/aHsiTCiSPC Fantastic collection Robert - many thanks for the links 14s in Gloucestershire and 43s in both Glos and Worcs are awesome - Triumph is definitely on the list to do Cheers Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted February 28, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 28, 2015 And David Christie has some quality hydraulic photos, also on Flickr, https://www.flickr.com/photos/david_christie/sets/72157625740408533/ Absolutely right there Jonny - many thanks for sharing the link, hadn't seen most of those before Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Fantastic collection Robert - many thanks for the links 14s in Gloucestershire and 43s in both Glos and Worcs are awesome - Triumph is definitely on the list to do Cheers Phil Fantastic collection Robert - many thanks for the links 14s in Gloucestershire and 43s in both Glos and Worcs are awesome - Triumph is definitely on the list to do Cheers Phil Seconded. I love that shot of the Nine-fiver with a train composed of more brake vans than wagons.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted February 28, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) I think we are all extremely grateful for all these images that are posted online, invaluable for modellers. Robert's collection is indeed one of the finest - in the old days when you could see bidders on eBay we often were bidding on the same item! Roberts collection are all watermarked for copyright. I've had a rather unfortunate incident this week when I found 20 of my copyright slides on Flickr, where most probably the poster had sourced the images from eBay. The date he uploaded them was exactly the day I won my slides and I also saw plenty of others there which I'd bid on but lost. He'd also replicated precisely errors in the slide listings! A lot of grot from the ebay scans are on the images too. I reported this to flickr late yesterday afternoon, and to be fair to them all had gone by early evening. But what to do? Having had a PM conversation with DaveF (who has 40,000 railway related slides, and has similar copyright infringement episodes), how to stop this? It is a worry where you've paid a considerable amount for a copyrighted slide, then see someone flagrantly ignoring your legal right to this image. Just one image is bad enough, but 20-on that scale I think something should be done about this individual, and I may be writing to him via Flickr. Any advice/experiences please PM me, it's important for us that have slide collections that our willingness to post such images isn't compromised. Anyhow to lighten the mood, I've now run out of scanned images - will repost when the scanner is up and running. I've got some large negatives which wont fit my cool pix V and will be done on a flatbed scanner. Some of those include my only copyright images of class 14s. This is one of the infamous 20 slides on Flickr, Bath road open day in 1965. D7077 and D71 in attendance - I may well have been there as a mere 4 year old. My grandfather worked there and have vague memories of these open days mid to late 1960s. Neil Edited February 28, 2015 by Downendian 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted February 28, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 28, 2015 Hi Neil With today's technology it is very difficult to prevent people copying something and then claiming it to be their's. The only way to prevent this is not sharing, how poor would we be without likes of you, Robert, DaveF etc. So a BIG THANK YOU to all who do share on here. There is also the problem of people passing the same photo off to several "customers" saying the buyer now has the copyright. I am on a WW2 miliatry forum and an argument started between two chaps over who had the copyright to a photo, it turned out they both had been sold a copy and the copyright by someone who never had the copyright in the first place. I do like thge photo of D71, a Peak as it should be, green with lining, split headcode is a bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted February 28, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 28, 2015 Just noticed the wiring conduit to the headcode box - painted yellow where Green nose, and green where yellow nose! Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Roberts collection are all watermarked for copyright. I've had a rather unfortunate incident this week when I found 20 of my copyright slides on Flickr, where most probably the poster had sourced the images from eBay. The date he uploaded them was exactly the day I won my slides and I also saw plenty of others there which I'd bid on but lost. He'd also replicated precisely errors in the slide listings! A lot of grot from the ebay scans are on the images too. I reported this to flickr late yesterday afternoon, and to be fair to them all had gone by early evening. But what to do? Having had a PM conversation with DaveF (who has 40,000 railway related slides, and has similar copyright infringement episodes), how to stop this? It is a worry where you've paid a considerable amount for a copyrighted slide, then see someone flagrantly ignoring your legal right to this image. Just one image is bad enough, but 20-on that scale I think something should be done about this individual, and I may be writing to him via Flickr. Any advice/experiences please PM me, it's important for us that have slide collections that our willingness to post such images isn't compromised. I have had a similar thing with people lifting the ebay image and posting it. I note that ebay sellers are increasingly watermarking the images on their listing. I've more-or-less given up on bidding for hydraulic images as such. I'm really interested mainly in train shots and often more for the stock than the loco. Some people complain about the watermarks but this shows why they are there. Anyone who wants to can post my images on other sites where the BB code works, as it does on RMWeb. A few of my images have appeared in books or articles and a few more are on the way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted February 28, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) Interesting Robert and I agree re "full train" shots. My recent batch of ebay wins have been Westerns at Reading photographed from a distance at the head of mixed freights. This is currently one of my greatest area of intrigue - the very late unfitted freights or partially fitted freights of the mid 1970s, and how to replicate those wonderful Severn Tunnel Junction to Acton trains that were invariably hauled by Westerns. Neil Edited February 28, 2015 by Downendian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I don't wish to get into libellous territory, but I believe some people buy slides/negatives, then scan them for their own use before selling them on to someone else who has the (now incorrect, but perfectly understandable) belief that he/she has control over when and where the image will be displayed. I was also told that for 70 years copyright remains with the original photographer, unless they have transferred it in writing to someone else. Therefore, many of the images sold with copyright on Ebay are not actually, despite what the description might say. I bought some a year or so ago which purported to be from the family of the photographer, who had sadly passed away. Their only wish was that I credit him when displaying them online, something I am happy to do; but I am not sure that even with that scenario I can legally claim to own the copyright. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianwales Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Hi all Another big thanks from me as well for making these images available, I guess I have been lucky in that whenever i have asked about a particular photo to aid my modeling a polite request is all it has taken and permission to copy the photo for my own use has always been forthcoming. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium cctransuk Posted February 28, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 28, 2015 I don't wish to get into libellous territory, but I believe some people buy slides/negatives, then scan them for their own use before selling them on to someone else who has the (now incorrect, but perfectly understandable) belief that he/she has control over when and where the image will be displayed. I was also told that for 70 years copyright remains with the original photographer, unless they have transferred it in writing to someone else. Therefore, many of the images sold with copyright on Ebay are not actually, despite what the description might say. I bought some a year or so ago which purported to be from the family of the photographer, who had sadly passed away. Their only wish was that I credit him when displaying them online, something I am happy to do; but I am not sure that even with that scenario I can legally claim to own the copyright. I may be in a minority of one here - but I really cannot understand the desire to collect slides with copyright. Why? The images have no personal attachment in the way that they might have for the photographer. Unless I am missing something, the only reason why someone would want to collect images taken by others with copyright would be for the rather selfish feeling of 'ownership' - ie. I can see them but no-one else can without my permission. From my perspective, such images are our history and should be available to all; not hoarded. Just my humble opinion. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted March 1, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2015 Sorry John I disagree. You don't have to view them if you don't want to, I've posted these entirely due to altruism, no personal gain here whatsoever. Most slides I collect and buy at my personal cost are for personal memories, and some for stuff I wish I'd had seen but was just too young. yes and I agree they should be in the public domain but who pays the price for buying them? It's posts like yours that make me wonder why I bother. Neil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I may be in a minority of one here - but I really cannot understand the desire to collect slides with copyright. Some buy images with copyright to profit from reproduction, assist in producing a publication or to speculate on potential future value. Neil's altruism above is noted; twice over the last two nights I've returned to some of Neil's collection to make reference notes and I'm very grateful he's sharing personal and procured references. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianwales Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 It's posts like yours that make me wonder why I bother. Neil Hi Neil I sincerely hope you carry on "bothering", each photo is a mine of valuable information for the modellers amoung us and also remind me of times spotting the hydraulics when I didn't possess a camera. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted March 1, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 1, 2015 I am just enjoying see pictures of trains that I spotted but would have loved to photograph as well. My 127 Brownie's film was a bit more than my pocket money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I may be in a minority of one here - but I really cannot understand the desire to collect slides with copyright. Why? The images have no personal attachment in the way that they might have for the photographer. Unless I am missing something, the only reason why someone would want to collect images taken by others with copyright would be for the rather selfish feeling of 'ownership' - ie. I can see them but no-one else can without my permission. From my perspective, such images are our history and should be available to all; not hoarded. Just my humble opinion. Regards, John Isherwood. I disagree. I have purchased around 5,000 images with rights to future use or transfer of copyright ad a cost that I would rather not add up. I could keep them to myself but instead I have built a Flickr site which has now had almost 4 million hits. Not only can others see the images, they are used extensively on this forum (BB code is available so anyone can post them here) and elsewhere as a reference point for modellers and historians. I also use them in articles I write and have made them available (free of charge) to various societies of which I am a member. Occasionally some are published in books or magazines, for which I receive a small payment, but that is incidental. The Flickr images are watermarked to give some protection against others ripping them off (see discussion above). For similar reasons, I spend a fortune on carriage working books (nearly 600 original books so far) and then give away copies for free to anyone who wants them, having agreed this some years ago with the now-defunct BRB (Residuary) Limited. There are people who buy images and paper railwayana just so that they have them and no one else does. They may want to make money by selling images or allowing reproduction for a fee. Or they may want them for books. Or to show off their knowledge in societies and forums - I can think of a few people like that regarding carriage workings for example. Or for their own selfish self-satisfaction at keeping them to themselves. For me, it's about sharing and helping other modellers. The copyright/right to use area is very complicated but many of the images I have purchased are either source unknown or have come from people who have sold them with rights to use and have confirmed that to me directly, including David Ford who posts on this site, Gerald T Robinson and others. Lots of others have come from estates via dealers who have purchased them with all rights then sold them on. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Yes, the problem with photos without copyright is that we may not know who does own it. I wouldn't like to think that I post photos on here which were actually from commercial collections, and it would not be fair on RMweb if they were suddenly issued with a writ for displaying copyrighted material without permission. Now you might answer, but all commercial slides will have the organisation's logo on them, but in my experience this is not always the case. Unscrupulous folk seem to copy (at least in the past) commercial slides and then sell them on as their own originals. Now this may be easy to spot if you have a detailed memory of everything in the Colour-rail, GTR, Steam & Sail, etc., archives but I certainly do not. From a personal viewpoint, I like to purchase old railway slide collections for the simple reason that I know if I have them the originals will be looked after, scanned at high resolution and intermittently be displayed on internet sites such as this one; rather than being stuffed in a black bin bag and disposed of. Yes, maybe in 50 years time they will have faded to nothing, or have been consumed by some airborne mould, but at least the digital versions will live on as records of the distant past. For me, every image is a priceless vital glimpse of a moment in history, irrespective of whether I was there or not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 (edited) In order to "play with fire" as it were, here are four slides that I purchased in good faith as "with full copyright". However, I really am not sure if they are just copies of copies, but I suspect that I may soon discover the reality. Enjoy, while you can. EDITED; to add that whatever the status of the image, there is a fantastic assortment of stock behind the Hymek. Edited March 1, 2015 by jonny777 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted March 1, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2015 (edited) Absolutely agree with Jonny and Robert's comments. Whilst sometimes copyright slides when advertised as such maybe difficult to ascertain, every slide I've shown in this thread and others I'm fairly certain the copyright holder is me. This is because I try and buy slides from the original photographer, from reputable dealers such as Strathwood and Triotske travel and keep screen grabs and ebay receipts of my collection - that is how I prevented the posting by another individual on Flickr, who actually is a "famous" online Bristolian historian. Have no fear I will continue to post them, it's only technical reasons why I'm not continuing to do so. Collections such as The Robert Carroll correction, Brushveteran, DaveF others named in this thread and not forgetting of course Paul Bartlett's wagon and NCPS collection we would be much poorer as a community. Companies that provide us with our sundries for super detailing (including Cambridge Custom transfers who make accurate excellent products I can vouch) are highly dependent on such resources, without copyright collections or their own resources they would be dead in the water. Maybe one day I will produce railway books - I've just been commissioned to write my first academic book, and have over 100 Scientifc papers to my name, and it's an ambition I want to realise one day (it's one of my retirement "business plans"). Those books will of course use my images, and where appropriate seek a license from others where I don't have the required image, Robert being the prime first stop for my hydraulic requirements. In the meantime I will post here, which I think is an altruistic act, but if I do produce books then I hope the quality of the images and supporting knowledge will ensure they are financially viable. Above all I want any of my publication activities to be legal, and copyright and licensing are the only way (believe me I've had huge wrangles with patents that I am named on). In any case the input of contributors with our huge collective knowledge base has greatly assisted me in identifying locations, dates etc. just look at the Newton Abbott Warship identification squad earlier in the thread. So, I've gained from many people in this thread, and for that you have my gratitude. Neil Edited March 1, 2015 by Downendian 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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