Hornby Merchant Navy announced (formerly Facebook leak)

[Ian Hargrave]

Just got round to giving both Royal Mail and new kid on the layout Clan Line a thorough workout at last. These IMHO are simply breathtaking models ..both in terms of strong,smooth and surefooted performance with haulage capacity to spare through all notches on the Gaugemaster and in the qualty of the finish with good accurate colour and exquisitely fine lining.especially on Clan Line.Both locomotives now modelled by Hornby are memorable to me . Royal Mail hauled a spotting trip to Salisbury and back in airsmoothed form (12/08/1958) and Clan Line was the last to be underlined in my Ian Allan abc when I saw her backing out of Victoria on Grosvenor Bridge (viewed from an inbound Folkestone boat train).She was also in airsmoothed form then. (24/08/1956).

[Ian Hargrave]

I don't how to break the news, but there maybe, small but glaring error on Clan Line...

 

After much pouring over of photo's and text in numerous tomes*, Clan Line should not have the front sander filler hatches, nor should any other series 3 (may well be the entire class) in BR Brunswick Green, as they were blanked off on repainting from Blue.

 

 

*The Book of the Merchant Navy Pacifics, Locomotives In Detail 1: Bulleid 4-6-2 Merchant Navy Class, The Original Bulleid Pacifics & The Power of the Merchant Navies

 Don't think I can live with myself now.....

[Budgie]

I don't how to break the news, but there maybe, small but glaring error on Clan Line...

 

After much poring over of photo's and text in numerous tomes*, Clan Line should not have the front sander filler hatches, nor should any other series 3 (may well be the entire class) in BR Brunswick Green, as they were blanked off on repainting from Blue.

Surely the errors are only glaring if everybody can see them without specialist knowledge. In my case, I can't see anything wrong (even if it is wrong) and I couldn't care less.

 

Of course, if you'd like to correct all the erroneous models, I'm sure their owners will be eternally grateful.   

 

Don't think I can live with myself now.....

You'll survive.

[toboldlygo]

Don't think I can live with myself now.....

 

 

The devil is in the details, I didn't think anything was wrong with Clan Line, it's a stunning loco - however the engineer side of me, knew something wasn't quite right and I started digging..

 

 

Surely the errors are only glaring if everybody can see them without specialist knowledge. In my case, I can't see anything wrong (even if it is wrong) and I couldn't care less.Of course, if you'd like to correct all the erroneous models, I'm sure their owners will be eternally grateful.    You'll survive.

 

You don't need specialist knowledge, photographs speak volumes and with the complexity of the Merchant Navy in it's Original form mistakes can happen.

 

Besides the Men in Malachite, will deal with the perpetrators

[Robin Brasher]

At the Purbeck Model Railway Group meeting last Friday I tested 21C3 'Royal Mail's haulage ability. I ran it for an hour with a 16 coach Southern malachite green train consisting of four Dapol utility vans, eight Hornby Southern coaches and four Hornby Maunsell high window coaches. 16 coaches was well within 'Royal Mail's capability and it ran smoothly and silently. I think it is the best locomotive in my fleet.

[toboldlygo]

Details still to be added, runs just as sweetly as the other two and the green seems to have more depth to it.

 

 

 

And the rear deck of the tender is awash with detail, the TIA tank is a work of art in itself

 

 

 

[Ian Hargrave]

Taking all aspects of what makes a good r-t-r model into account,I think this stands out as one of the finest ever made.....in particular and with due deference to the sunshine boys.... 35028.

[toboldlygo]

Taking all aspects of what makes a good r-t-r model into account,I think this stands out as one of the finest ever made.....in particular and with due deference to the sunshine boys.... 35028.

It does, the Merchant Navies are a minefield in Original form. It looks like the retooled 6,000gl tender chassis may except the cut-down tender top (from the XS version), however before anyone gets ideas about doing New Zealand Line, note this - the vacuum cylinders where off set on the early cut-down 6,000gl tenders, due to TIA tank.

[Robin Brasher]

I would like to be able to recreate this scene of 35024 'East Asiatic Company' in BR blue with a rake of excellent crimson and cream Bulleid coaches in 00 gauge one day. The picture shows the Graham Farish N gauge version. The advantage of this scale is that I was able to create a satisfactory layout on one 4'6" x 2'6'" baseboard that I can take to exhibitions in the back of my car.

 

Meanwhile I have just ordered "Clan Line" from Kernow for £161.65 post free using my loyalty points. I bought it because it reminds me of Tri-ang's popular TT gauge model and it is more versatile than the Southern versions. I can use it with Bulleid, Maunsell and BR Mk1 coaches in crimson and cream livery as well as Pullman cars. I have got a Hornby rebuilt "Clan Line" which I renamed "Port Line" before Hornby produced "Port Line" leaving me with two.

 

Clan Line reached a maximum speed of 104 miles per hour at Axminster in 1961 hauling the Atlantic Coast Express but I have heard that it ran at the same speed in its original form.

[toboldlygo]

031.JPGI would like to be able to recreate this scene of 35024 'East Asiatic Company' in BR blue with a rake of excellent crimson and cream Bulleid coaches in 00 gauge one day. The picture shows the Graham Farish N gauge version. The advantage of this scale is that I was able to create a satisfactory layout on one 4'6" x 2'6'" baseboard that I can take to exhibitions in the back of my car.Meanwhile I have just ordered "Clan Line" from Kernow for £161.65 post free using my loyalty points. I bought it because it reminds me of Tri-ang's popular TT gauge model and it is more versatile than the Southern versions. I can use it with Bulleid, Maunsell and BR Mk1 coaches in crimson and cream livery as well as Pullman cars. I have got a Hornby rebuilt "Clan Line" which I renamed "Port Line" before Hornby produced "Port Line" leaving me with two.Clan Line reached a maximum speed of 104 miles per hour at Axminster in 1961 hauling the Atlantic Coast Express but I have heard that it ran at the same speed in its original form.

There are rumours​ that the Merchant Navies regularly clocked over 100mph in modified form, during their twilight years in service...

[MikeParkin65]

Two questions:

 1. Have others had front bogie derailments with the new Hornby original streamlined Merchant Navy locos? The  accoutrements ( presumably representing steam venting pipes?) restrict front bogie movement on curved track and cause derailment with both locos that I have. I notice in the photo above that these 'bits' a re removed and have had to do this to mine to get the locos to run properly as well as having to adjust the back to back measurements on both sets of wheels.

2. Can anyone recommend a good sound chip for these models. As, I understand,  all of the original locos were quickly modified recordings will be like hens teeth.

 

 

As for sound, I am waiting to see what Hornby's TTS will do. My bet is that all the Bullied pacifics in all forms sounded alike.

 

Can't imagine there will be much better than Locomans 'Superior Steam Sounds' West Country chip - available from Charlie Petty. Certainly wouldnt hold out much hope for Hornby's TTS - they only manage 1 beat per revolution for the 4 cylinder King  - a Bullied needs 6!

[Robin Brasher]

There are rumours​ that the Merchant Navies regularly clocked over 100mph in modified form, during their twilight years in service...

A steam engine driver on the Waterloo Bournemouth route visited us at the barn at Godlingston Manor, Swanage. He said that the original Merchant Navy locomotives used to exceed 100mph and were the best engines on the Southern. There was a speed restriction of 90mph on the line from Basingstoke but they needed to run at 100mph to make up lost time on the timetable.

[toboldlygo]

A steam engine driver on the Waterloo Bournemouth route visited us at the barn at Godlingston Manor, Swanage. He said that the original Merchant Navy locomotives used to exceed 100mph and were the best engines on the Southern. There was a speed restriction of 90mph on the line from Basingstoke but they needed to run at 100mph to make up lost time on the timetable.

I may of mentioned this elsewhere on the forum (or it's previous version), the late father of one of my brother's primary school friends used to be a fireman on the Southern Region - regularly firing Merchant Navies and their light Pacific brethren. His engines use to regularly top 100 mph on the route you mention.

[DoverPriory]

I have not removed any parts on my pair (nor added any parts), but the models cope with 22, 24, 26 and 28 inch radias with no problems.

 

I did notice the weight on these models is centre towards the rear, meaning front drivers lift off at the top of inclines, not enough for the flanges to pass clear of the rail top (that would indicate the change of incline is too sharp), the original light pacifics have the weight well centered meaning lift is even between front and rear drivers. If your track has sharper changes or sharp undulations than mine,then that could cause the front wheels to clear the track.

 

As for sound, I am waiting to see what Hornby's TTS will do. My bet is that all the Bullied pacifics in all forms sounded alike.

Thanks for your contribution. Further runnings of my 21C1 model suggest one of the major contributors to the front bogie derailment problem is weight distribution in the loco that compounds with other issues. My layout is only 10 ft x 5 ft. Derailments occur mostly between Peco express points of which I have four sets, one at each corner of the layout. These points aren't easy get absolutely 'true'. But other locos (including several BoBs and a CoCo Westerner) run through these points without issue.

I can run the model without derailment at any speed when it is not loaded, add several coaches and it will derail at one set of express points. That suggests that loading pushes back the centre of gravity of the loco making it rock backwards. 

So far to get the loco to run on my layout without derailment I have:

1. removed the 'bits' on either side of the bogies that restrict their sideways movement (as someone said better to have 99% of a model than 0%]

2. reset the back to backs

3. made the point rest absolutely level by putting some plastic bricking underneath it.

4. cut down loading to 3 Mk 1 coaches (green SR ones of course).

when time avails I will do some more test running.

Have a roofer coming next week so think I will see if I can get some lead flashing off cuts from him.

[toboldlygo]

Thanks for your contribution. Further runnings of my 21C1 model suggest one of the major contributors to the front bogie derailment problem is weight distribution in the loco that compounds with other issues. My layout is only 10 ft x 5 ft. Derailments occur mostly between Peco express points of which I have four sets, one at each corner of the layout. These points aren't easy get absolutely 'true'. But other locos (including several BoBs and a CoCo Westerner) run through these points without issue.

I can run the model without derailment at any speed when it is not loaded, add several coaches and it will derail at one set of express points. That suggests that loading pushes back the centre of gravity of the loco making it rock backwards. 

So far to get the loco to run on my layout without derailment I have:

1. removed the 'bits' on either side of the bogies that restrict their sideways movement (as someone said better to have 99% of a model than 0%]

2. reset the back to backs

3. made the point rest absolutely level by putting some plastic bricking underneath it.

4. cut down loading to 3 Mk 1 coaches (green SR ones of course).

when time avails I will do some more test running.

Have a roofer coming next week so think I will see if I can get some lead flashing off cuts from him.

I'm wondering if it's the points causing the problem, as I had a similar issue with the APT-E derailing at certain point between two Peco express points.

 

There's a fix in the APT-E thread, this the link: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/87114-the-official-rapido-apt-e-thread/page-108&do=findComment&comment=2268802

Edited April 17, 2017 by toboldlygo

[SRman]

Thanks for your contribution. Further runnings of my 21C1 model suggest one of the major contributors to the front bogie derailment problem is weight distribution in the loco that compounds with other issues. My layout is only 10 ft x 5 ft. Derailments occur mostly between Peco express points of which I have four sets, one at each corner of the layout. These points aren't easy get absolutely 'true'. But other locos (including several BoBs and a CoCo Westerner) run through these points without issue.

I can run the model without derailment at any speed when it is not loaded, add several coaches and it will derail at one set of express points. That suggests that loading pushes back the centre of gravity of the loco making it rock backwards. 

So far to get the loco to run on my layout without derailment I have:

1. removed the 'bits' on either side of the bogies that restrict their sideways movement (as someone said better to have 99% of a model than 0%]

2. reset the back to backs

3. made the point rest absolutely level by putting some plastic bricking underneath it.

4. cut down loading to 3 Mk 1 coaches (green SR ones of course).

when time avails I will do some more test running.

Have a roofer coming next week so think I will see if I can get some lead flashing off cuts from him.

 

The roofing lead is a good idea. I have in the past weighted a Hornby air-smoothed West Country, Wilton, with an extra 75 grams or so lining the inside of the casing. I did manage 100 grams but then fitted sound, which meant the extra bit right at the front interfered with the speaker.

 

While I have not, as yet, received any of the new MNs from Hornby (21C3 ordered from AJM just yesterday), I would guess there should be room to add some of the lead around the interior of the body, even if only a little to add weight over the front wheels.

[toboldlygo]

The roofing lead is a good idea. I have in the past weighted a Hornby air-smoothed West Country, Wilton, with an extra 75 grams or so lining the inside of the casing. I did manage 100 grams but then fitted sound, which meant the extra bit right at the front interfered with the speaker.

 

While I have not, as yet, received any of the new MNs from Hornby (21C3 ordered from AJM just yesterday), I would guess there should be room to add some of the lead around the interior of the body, even if only a little to add weight over the front wheels.

 

There's quite a bit of room to add weight at the front, if you want to give it some serious weight gain.

Edited April 17, 2017 by toboldlygo

[PeteN92]

Order has been processed and in turn wallet emptied by Hattons seems my Clan Line is on its way

 

Pete

[toboldlygo]

Order has been processed and in turn wallet emptied by Hattons seems my Clan Line is on its way

 

Pete

Occupational hazard with Bulleids - an empty wallet

[mattingleycustom]

 

 

The devil is in the details, I didn't think anything was wrong with Clan Line, it's a stunning loco - however the engineer side of me, knew something wasn't quite right and I started digging..

 

 

 

You don't need specialist knowledge, photographs speak volumes and with the complexity of the Merchant Navy in it's Original form mistakes can happen.

 

Besides the Men in Malachite, will deal with the perpetrators

 

The men in malachite versus the purple traitors - now there's a clash in more ways than one!

 

In all seriousness (for a change), Hornby have done really well with these models and are to be applauded, if there are a few details that aren't quite right then it's something I can live with. After all if you want perfection then only kit, or scratch building will do and that is both time consuming and expensive.

 

Glenn

[ed 66 plant]

Hi Mattingleycustom

                                 Having picked up my R3436 from Rails  today I completely agree that Hornby have come up with a stunning loco model---I would add to your last sentence by saying that there are very few modellers capable of attaining this level of detail,performance and finish,let alone reaching the perfection level you speak of. I am not saying we should not attempt to build whatever ourselves--I believe I am just being realistic.

regards,

Ed

[toboldlygo]

The men in malachite versus the purple traitors - now there's a clash in more ways than one!

 

In all seriousness (for a change), Hornby have done really well with these models and are to be applauded, if there are a few details that aren't quite right then it's something I can live with. After all if you want perfection then only kit, or scratch building will do and that is both time consuming and expensive.

 

Glenn

Apparently they have got a facility on the dark-side of the Moon....

 

In space no one can hear you scream

[SRman]

The only thing I have picked up on is the thickness of the mouldings at the front edges of the casings on the 21C1 and 21C3 models. Hornby have painted the edges green, which, to me, exaggerates it just that little bit more. When 21C3 arrives here, I have in it mind to paint the front edges black, once I have run the model in and ensured it works properly (I don't want to invalidate the warranty).

Pictures will follow in due course to show whether my idea worked or not.

When faced with a model that attracts superlatives in the descriptions and reviews, it is only small or niggly details that can be criticised (and there are bound to be the odd ones with a class of locomotives with so many detail variations); in the overall scheme of things, Hornby have done extremely well with these Merchant Navy models.

[toboldlygo]

The only thing I have picked up on is the thickness of the mouldings at the front edges of the casings on the 21C1 and 21C3 models. Hornby have painted the edges green, which, to me, exaggerates it just that little bit more. When 21C3 arrives here, I have in it mind to paint the front edges black, once I have run the model in and ensured it works properly (I don't want to invalidate the warranty).

 

Pictures will follow in due course to show whether my idea worked or not.

 

When faced with a model that attracts superlatives in the descriptions and reviews, it is only small or niggly details that can be criticised (and there are bound to be the odd ones with a class of locomotives with so many detail variations); in the overall scheme of things, Hornby have done extremely well with these Merchant Navy models.

 

Locomotives in Detail (1) on the Merchant Navy Class is well worth hunting down. It has a wealth of photo's showing all the differences on the tenders - amongst other things..

[SRman]

Locomotives in Detail (1) on the Merchant Navy Class is well worth hunting down. It has a wealth of photo's showing all the differences on the tenders - amongst other things..

 

I have that very book in front of me now! I was researching the tenders allocated just yesterday, with a view to naming my kit-built MN (Golden Arrow Productions body on Hornby MN chassis with WC/BoB cylinders). 

 

There is also a bit of useful information on tenders in The Book of the West Country and Battle of Britain Pacifics: a British Railways Illustrated Special (Richard Derry, 2002, Irwell Press Ltd), with reference to which light pacific tenders were temporarily behind which Merchant Navy in the early years.