Who wants a newly tooled Class 91?

[DaveClass47]

The Campaign Starts Here!

A NEW CLASS 91

 

Hi guys.   In light of the newly unveiled Virgin East coast liveried Class 91, MK4 stock and DVT I am starting to gather support to kindly 'persuade 'Hornby in to re tool its ancient Class 91 loco, MK4 stock and DVT.   The current class 91 is really only a 'Railroad' model!!

 

I have made requests for this to Hornby on numerous occasions.   However without large scale support I fear Hornby will continue with or re tooling Steam loco after Steam loco and largely forget about the modern image 'Electric' modeller.

 

If you wish to see a re tooled 91/DVT to modern standards with new motor, fully DCC compliant, up-rated 'super detail' and working lights etc then please add your views to this thread.   If I get enough support I will send a link for to this thread to Hornby to show that there is a market for the 91, and MK4, newly tooled, detailed DVT, just like the excellent Hornby MK3 DVT! 

 

There is a growing list of possibilities for liveries in this loco and rolling stock: 

 

Intercity Swallow

GNER

NXEC

East Coast

and now Virgin East Coast!

 

As the 91 is relegated to lesser duties in the years to come I am sure more operators will take these locos and their rolling stock, so more liveries will surely be in the pipeline!

 

I've added this profile of the Intercity 225 (Class 91, DVT and MK4 coaching stock):

 

The Intercity 225 sets have been the flag ship of the most famous railway route in Britain since 1989.   That's 26 years (and counting) of front line service on the ECML. 

 

This locomotive and rolling stock have 'ruled the rails' on the East Coast Mainline for longer than the A3 Flying Scotsman, longer than the A4 Pacifics and even longer than the iconic HST 125.   Therefore it DESERVES to be properly represented in model form with modern features and moudlings.   All of the other three locos mentioned have received a 'super detail' make over from Hornby, so it surely must be the 91's turn to take its place alongside these iconic locos.

 

Agree with me?   Add your comments and support!   Also, what liveries would you like to see the Hornby 91/MK4's produced in?

 

Thanks in advance!   

 

Dave

Edited March 5, 2015 by DaveClass47

[Fenman]

 ... I am starting to gather support to kindly 'pressure' Hornby in to re tool its ancient Class 91 loco, MK4 stock and DVT.   The current class 91 is really only a 'Railroad' model!!

 

I have made requests for this to Hornby on numerous occasions.   However without large scale support I fear Hornby will just plough on with introducing or re tooling Steam loco after Steam loco and largely forget about the modern image 'Electric' modeller!

 

If you wish to see a re tooled 91/DVT to modern standards with new motor, fully DCC compliant, up-rated 'super detail' and working lights etc then please add your views to this thread.   If I get enough support I will send a link for to this thread to Hornby to show that there is a market for the 91, and MK4, newly tooled, detailed DVT, just like the excellent Hornby MK3 DVT! ...

 

I'm curious about why you are only pressuring Hornby: there are now, what?, 7 manufacturers in the marketplace (Hornby, Bachmann, Heljan, Dapol, DJM, Rapido, OxfordRail - albeit the last three have not yet produced anything), plus any number of retailers and museums now commissioning models (Kernow, Hattons, Olivias, Rails, Locomotion, Steam - though I accept the latter would be a bit of a long-shot in this case!).

 

So why not try to enthuse all of them, rather than going with what I suspect is an uphill task of persuading Hornby to invest large sums of cash in new tooling which is likely to cannibalise its income stream from the existing Class 91 tooling?

 

Paul

[Multiple identity account]

Voting done..... I am in! I want Hornby to do an AC electric

I'm curious about why you are only pressuring Hornby: there are now, what?, 7 manufacturers in the marketplace (Hornby, Bachmann, Heljan, Dapol, DJM, Rapido, OxfordRail - albeit the last three have not yet produced anything), plus any number of retailers and museums now commissioning models (Kernow, Hattons, Olivias, Rails, Locomotion, Steam - though I accept the latter would be a bit of a long-shot in this case!).

 

So why not try to enthuse all of them, rather than going with what I suspect is an uphill task of persuading Hornby to invest large sums of cash in new tooling which is likely to cannibalise its income stream from the existing Class 91 tooling?

 

Paul

Probably because Hornby needs to learn to produce a quality AC electric too...atleast one!

[Multiple identity account]

Hi Dave,

Thank you so much for taking up this initiative.

I personally support you fully with this. And I will help you further if you need. I personally feel like starting a topic similar to this for Hornby to do a Class 92....

[DaveClass47]

Voting done..... I am in! I want Hornby to do an AC electric

Probably because Hornby needs to learn to produce a quality AC electric too...atleast one!

 

I'm curious about why you are only pressuring Hornby: there are now, what?, 7 manufacturers in the marketplace (Hornby, Bachmann, Heljan, Dapol, DJM, Rapido, OxfordRail - albeit the last three have not yet produced anything), plus any number of retailers and museums now commissioning models (Kernow, Hattons, Olivias, Rails, Locomotion, Steam - though I accept the latter would be a bit of a long-shot in this case!).

 

So why not try to enthuse all of them, rather than going with what I suspect is an uphill task of persuading Hornby to invest large sums of cash in new tooling which is likely to cannibalise its income stream from the existing Class 91 tooling?

 

Paul

Hi Paul,

 

I chose Hornby as they already have the MK4 coaching stock and an basis to re tool their existing 91 and DVT.  

 

I think it is unlikely that any other manufacturer would take on a project if it meant starting the 91 from scratch, and then have to research and develop the MK4 coaching and DVT stock!   The easiest way is for Hornby to stand up to the plate and go for it!   They need to show faith in the modern image modeler.   Also, their past record in re-tooling the HST has shown that they can do a great job when motivated to do so.   

 

The current 91 tooling can remain in the range as a Railroad model.  That would satisfy that market, but after being on the market since 1990 I think its time Hornby gave us an electric for the 21st century!

 

Feel free to join the campaign. ;-)

 

Dave

[lyneux]

How about a Kickstarter (or other crowd source funding: RevolutioN Models?) campaign?

 

I wonder whether Hornby would engage with that?

 

Guy

[Multiple identity account]

How about a Kickstarter (or other crowd source funding: RevolutioN Models?) campaign?

 

I wonder whether Hornby would engage with that?

 

Guy

I am sure Hornby's new management surely will think about that...We've seen their new management do alot of things that are non-traditional It's worth a try.

[DaveClass47]

Hi Dave,

 

Thank you so much for taking up this initiative.

 

I personally support you fully with this. And I will help you further if you need. I personally feel like starting a topic similar to this for Hornby to do a Class 92....

Hi, thanks for your support.  You'll see ive been a bit of a wally and started two posts, but one has a poll attached.  I had issues with getting the poll to also allow replies!  And now it works, aargh! lol

[brushman47544]

Good luck to those who want it, but it would be nice to be able to vote No, without having to vote for options that - having voted no - cease to have meaning. Personally priority for new/upgraded electrics should be Classes 81, 86 (original form) and 87 as they ran in BR blue.

[DaveClass47]

How about a Kickstarter (or other crowd source funding: RevolutioN Models?) campaign?

 

I wonder whether Hornby would engage with that?

 

Guy

Hi mate,

 

Well all we can do is suggest it!    If we get a lot of replies to this thread and a good result in the poll I have then I can forward this information to those at Hornby to chew over the results!!   I am determined to get a replacement for the out dated Hornby offerings of the 91 and DVT!   The MK4 coaches are actually a decent product, so we have a good basis for improvements with the rest of the 225 sets!

[DaveClass47]

Good luck to those who want it, but it would be nice to be able to vote No, without having to vote for options that - having voted no - cease to have meaning. Personally priority for new/upgraded electrics should be Classes 81, 86 (original form) and 87 as they ran in BR blue.

Thanks

 

Sorry about the limitations of the poll.   I am new to putting polls together and arent even sure if you can terminate the poll after one question.  I will see if I can alter the poll.  Dave

[Multiple identity account]

Good luck to those who want it, but it would be nice to be able to vote No, without having to vote for options that - having voted no - cease to have meaning. Personally priority for new/upgraded electrics should be Classes 81, 86 (original form) and 87 as they ran in BR blue.

I was never impressed with Heljan's efforts on the Class 86 at all..... more errors than anything else.

[darrel]

While I would love a brand new 91, it would also need brand new mk4 coaches and DVT to go with it.

Hornby missed the boat by not upgrading the class 90 and will now lose sales to Bachmann. I think a new class 156 would be a better bet as they have a larger operating sphere, and many more liverys. They can be used on branch lines and mainlines. Every modern image layout needs at least one.

And yet Hornby have done nothing. How long before Bachmann do a new 156 and Hornby lose more sales.

It would make more sense for Bachmann to do a class 91 as many components from the class 90 could be used, bogies, pantograph, motor, cab interior.

[Multiple identity account]

Can ask Andy to merge this thread or close it.

[Multiple identity account]

While I would love a brand new 91, it would also need brand new mk4 coaches and DVT to go with it.

Hornby missed the boat by not upgrading the class 90 and will now lose sales to Bachmann. I think a new class 156 would be a better bet as they have a larger operating sphere, and many more liverys. They can be used on branch lines and mainlines. Every modern image layout needs at least one.

And yet Hornby have done nothing. How long before Bachmann do a new 156 and Hornby lose more sales.

It would make more sense for Bachmann to do a class 91 as many components from the class 90 could be used, bogies, pantograph, motor, cab interior.

I think you mean just the pantograph..... cab interrior is a tad different if my memory serves me well. The bogies are far from alike. All motors used are the same.

[Stuart A]

Would this be a good opportunity to tie in with Hornby's interest in N gauge?  We could do with a re-tooled 91, Mk IVs and DVT in N gauge too........

[G-BOAF]

Would love someone to do an updated Intercity 225 to modern standards. Not my operating sphere at all, but they are impressive trains with many fond memories. My concern is that once gone from the ECML any chances of a new model will go as well. Unless the locos go on to a second life with more diverse rolling stock. These models need to be done NOW to prevent them fading into obscurity.

 

 

Hornby would be naturally placed as one assumes they have the original drawings from the late 1980s. Unlike much historic stock, there is not a huge amount of seperately fitted external detail, aside from the ends, with very few changes through their lives.

 

Only two key coach types plus the DVT (assuming the TSO(E) could be modelled with a tooling insert).

 

The loco is a different matter, with grills added at refurbishment, and now most recently modifications to the pantograph well and back cab to allow a second pantograph.

 

One thing that is an must for me is close coupling, the reason that I don't to date own an HST - corridor coaches look stupid with huge gangway gaps, and with the loco and coaches linked by gangway buffing plates, close coupling is needed here also.

[GordonC]

Was there not 2 versions of the GNER livery? One with Silver(?) and the other Gold lettering?

 

and similarly with the Mk4 coaches was there not the pre-refurbushed version with the normal livery on the doors and the refurbished version with orange/red doors

[DaveClass47]

Hi,

 

Yeah but the Class 91 power car is from the original Hornby 1989 moulding.  It lacks detail, no matter what livery you dress it up in.   The mk4 DVT car at the back is just as 'toy like' and needs brought up to modern standards.

[woodenhead]

I suspect though that Hornby will be focussing on its replacement train the IEP due in just a few years.

 

The 91 was the iconic HST, APT and Pendolino of its decade which Hornby specialise in, whilst the HST remains iconic and has been upgraded not so sure Hornby will be eager to redo the 91 at this late stage in its life despite the numerous liveries.

[DaveClass47]

Hi,

 

Thanks for your insight.

 

I see your point and agree in part about Hornby's attention turning to the new IEP trains. 

 

However, Bachmann are tooling the cl90, which is also at the same stage in its life to the 91 and Bachmann tooled the 85 back in 2011 long after that loco had gone to the scrap yard.   I still think there is scope for this iconic intercity train.   Hornby just need to realise that a rapidly increasing number of their customers are now of an age that they grew up in the era of the HST, Class 90, 91 etc, not the steam era they seem obsessed focussing on!   Yes a Mallard and a Flying Scotsman are all very nice to recreate the ECML in the 30's - 50's, but who alive today (and who models) remembers these locos in service?, I am glad to say there must be a healthy number, but not as many as remember the HST/91s ruling the east coast mainline!

 

The 91 may not be sexy or a stunner to look at, but are some of the run of the mill steam locos and early diesels any more attractive? ;-)

[woodenhead]

I don't disagree that other electrics are being produced but they don't need coaches and a DVT tooling too and I think that is what will get in your way.

 

It won't be a case of update the existing tooling it will be start a new tooling and with all the coaches it is going to be expensive.

 

If you look at Bachmann, only one electric loco at a time and the coaches or wagons for them to pull already exist in high quality mouldings.

 

I'm not saying give up but you are going to need Pendolino numbers of orders to get Hornby to even consider it, and then do they have the slots available to do the work.

[sawyermodels]

As a retailer and a modeller a new class 91 can't come soon enough and i fully support this idea and would stock it!

I currently have the Hornby Flying Scotsman Class 91 train pack which i have had fitted with sound and lights in the 91 and ive had pick ups added to the DVT which has allowed me to have sound and lights in it, all at great expense. a new version would be great and probably a lot cheaper than what ive had to have done. 

 

video of my class 91 and dvt, sorry for bad camera it was taken using my phone

 

www.sawyermodels.co.uk

 

[Catkins]

I think that NOW is the time for Hornby to up their game on the 91, mark IV and DVT, not forgetting that they have carried three special liveries, and a couple of advertising wraps - Sky TV, and Bond 'Skyfall'.

[sawyermodels]

id love a Skyfall liveried set