North Cornwall Railway

[10800]

Steam Trials The Withered Arm (Ian Allan) by M Clemens, has two shots:

Pg 33 D6334 crossing the R Taw near Barnstable 2/9/65 - split headcode and no yellow panel

 

When Adam mentioned one at Padstow, I thought I had seen something similar but I could have been confusing it with this one (but then Adam mentioned a Maunsell, this has Mk1s).

 

Anyway,

 

The Heyday of the Hydraulics (Hugh Dady, Ian Allan 2010, landscape colour album, some brilliant photos) has

 

p11 D6306, plain green, no headcode boxes, hauling a Bulleid 3-set Exeter-Plymouth at Cowley Bridge Jcn 4/7/61.

p18 D6339, GSYP, headcode boxes, with a B set between Bodmin General and Wadebridge 24/4/62.

p31 D6344, GSYP, headcode boxes, with a Maunsell P set and probably two more Maunsells near Tavistock on a Plymouth-Exeter 18/4/63.

 

Not quite the NCR but close possibly?

[2ManySpams]

Thanks Rod, as you say, not quite the NCR but probably based off the same shed? I'll add them to my list.

[2ManySpams]

Mystery of the non-existent ER Brake at Padstow...

 

Page 172 of An Illustrated History of the NCR shows T9 30338 at Padstow shunting shock on 4th June 1960. The only stock in shot is the first 6 to 8' of an Eastern Region Brake which carries the number E179E. I PM'd Larry (Coachman) to try and find out what this might be only to be told a coach with that number didn't exist. I sent Larry a scan of the photo and no doubt after thumbing through the extensive Library in Coachman Hall he offered the following news:

 

It's an all steel Gresley Full Brake built to D45 in 1926/7 to length 61'6" X 9' 0". Original number series 171 -193. Supposedly renumbered in 1943 to 70049-69. Small wonder I couldn't find them! Your picture shows clearly that this series of full brakes continued to carry their prewar numbers into BR days.

 

So proof yet again that not all changes and alterations stated in records and repeated in reference books as gospel can be relied on.

[2ManySpams]

BR 82XXX Standard Class 3 Tanks on the NCR

 

The first batch of 82XXX (82010-82019) tanks arrived new at Exmouth Junction in the summer of 1952. 82012/14-16 disappeared to Eastleigh within eight months of arrival. The remaining engines replaced elderly M7s on the Bude and Exmouth branch workings and were also used on local services to Honiton and Axminster. A reported shortage of tank engines for an extended Sunday service to Delabole in August 1953 resulted in 82013 being ‘borrowed’ from the Bude branch to take the afternoon working to Okehampton from Launceston, going on at 4.15pm to Delabole (6.06pm) before going back to Launceston.

 

A second batch (82020-82025) arrived in 1954 with 82020/22 staying only for a month (if at all). From then onwards the Exmouth Junction allocation remained fairly static until the early 60’s. All these early arrivals carried the standard lined black livery. With the arrival of the more powerful BR Class 4 tanks in 1962, all ten remaining 3MTs departed for Eastleigh.

 

As services were scaled back in Cornwall and loads got lighter there was again a need for the 3MTs and eight stayed for various lengths of time between April 1963 and the end of steam. WR influences resulted in 82001/02/30/39/42 carrying the lined BR green livery and 82035/40 being finished in unlined green. Whilst it was rare for a Standard 3 tank to be seen working the North Cornwall line they did occasionally deputise for the 4MT tanks. Their more usual haunts included Bude and Exmouth services.

 

The list below details the dates that members of the class were allocated to Exmouth Junction, although this means they worked in the area, it does not necessarily mean they worked on the NCR during this period.

 

82001 4/63-12/63 BR Lined Green

82002 4/63-2/64 BR Lined Green

82010 6/52-9/62

82011 8/52-9/62

82012 8/52-1/53

82013 8/52-9/62

82014 8/52-8/52

82015 8/52-10/52

82016 8/52-10/52

82017 8/52-9/62

82018 9/52-9/62

82019 9/52-9/62

82020 8/54-9/54

82021 8/54-9/54

82022 10/54-9/62

82023 10/54-9/62

82024 8/54-9/62

82025 8/54-9/62

82030 6/64-5/65 BR Lined Green

82035 3/64-9/64 BR Un-lined Green

82039 3/64-5/65 BR Lined Green

82040 10/63-5/65 BR Un-lined Green

82042 6/64-5/65 BR Lined Green

82044 6/64-5/65 BR Lined Black with, uniquely, the number under the cab window.

 

Notably 82042 appeared at Padstow on the last day of steam, 2 January 1965. This is the 3MT I've modelled for Treneglos. If I get round to weathering it then it could appear on the layout one day!

 

Another confirmed sighting on the NCR was 82030 which was photographed at Delabole on the 19th Sept 1964 with the 11.05am Padstow.

 

(Sources: An Illustrated History of the NCR, Irwell Press; Shed by Shed Pt 5, Tony Walmsley; BR Std Steam Locomotives Vol 3, RCTS)

[2ManySpams]

A bit of Wadebridge Trivia...

 

Ever wondered what the stream that runs through the western side of the station and into the River Camel is called? Well it starts off in the Polmorla valley as the Treguddick and then at some point running through Wadebridge turns into the Polmorla. Now you know.

 

Also the station is in the Parish of St Breock (Bray-ock), which could be an alternative name if modelling the shed or station...

[Guest 34008Padstow]

Hi Chris. hope you dont mind me posting this in here. i found this site while researching NCR stuff for my layout. http://www.fotolibra.../29386/railway/

[2ManySpams]

Hi Chris. hope you dont mind me posting this in here. i found this site while researching NCR stuff for my layout. http://www.fotolibra.../29386/railway/

 

Not at all. I think most of these are in the Illustrated History Book but there's a couple i don't think i've seen before - particularly Padstow fish dock taken from the Quay.

[hmrspaul]

Just for my own entertainment i sent the Delabole presflo info (and screen grab) to Kernow Models with a suggestion that they commission a ltd ed from Bachmann. The reply didn't say anything rude, nor did it tell me to *** off, so perhaps before long there's a chance it could appear. We wait and see.

If it was my photograph, did you explain this was in an ICI worn blue, and not freight stock red?

 

Paul Bartlett

[2ManySpams]

If it was my photograph, did you explain this was in an ICI worn blue, and not freight stock red?

 

Paul Bartlett

 

Hi Paul

 

Just noticed your post. No it wasn't one of your photos but a brief glimpse of one of the Delabole branded wagons snatched from a DVD. It was only in shot for a second or two but it caught my attention. It wasn't one of the ICI blue ones but I think an earlier variant. As much as I'd like to I obviously can't post the screen grab on here.

 

Still have my fingers crossed on this one as a trial attempt to letter one up didn't come out at all well.... those pesky ribs don't half get in the way and sourcing the right size / style of lettering hasn't gone well.

 

Regards

 

Chris

[2ManySpams]

Oooh, we've moved into the Southern Group - good call. I may be able to find my thread again now ;-)

[Graham_Muz]

I'm glad you found it OK Chris. I am hoping that the new Group will enable such threads to be revitalised!

[2ManySpams]

So far I think it's a great idea - I knew Andy would have one someday

[Guest 34008Padstow]

Found some links while doing some research for a layout. not sure if theyre any use

 

http://www.geolocati...idge-no143--/en

http://www.geolocati...idge-no144--/en

http://www.geolocati...y--the-camel/en

http://www.geograph....k/photo/2409433

[Tim Hale]

Maunsell 2-set 'R' or 'P’ Compositions

 

So far Hornby have produced the first (low window) and second (high window) body styles and I would doubt if they will go on to produce third and forth styles. This means it is not possible to create as RTR any of the sets that contained a D2113 BSK or a D2403 BCK - unfortunately this is all but 7 of them!

 

Which sets can be created from the available Hornby Maunsells and which Hornby coaches should be used?

[2ManySpams]

Hi Tim

 

Ok, so far Hornby have produced:

 

R4305 A-B Maunsell D2102 Brake Second - Pattern 2 Body Style (This has 1 vent over the lav window and high windows on the corridor side)

 

R4305 C-E Maunsell D2110 Brake Second - Pattern 2 Body Style (This has 2 vents over the lav window and high windows on the corridor side)

 

(Split from 1957 coach pack) Maunsell D2401 Brake Composite - Pattern 1 Body Style (This has 1 vent over the lav window and low windows on the corridor side)

 

R4320 A-C Maunsell D2401 Brake Composite - Pattern 2 Body Style (This has 1 vent over the lav window and high windows on the corridor side)

 

In BR Green you can create:

 

Set 25: D2110 BSK & Pat 2 D2401 BCK

Set 27: D2110 BSK & Pat 2 D2401 BCK

Set 30: D2110 BSK & Pat 2 D2401 BCK

Set 179: D2102 BSK & Pat 2 D2401 BCK

Set 180: D2102 BSK & Pat 2 D2401 BCK

Set 199: D2102 BSK & Pat 2 D2401 BCK (This can be produced straight out of the box if you can find a R4305E & R4320C)

Set 200: D2102 BSK & Pat 2 D2401 BCK

 

If you have the Irwell Press "Illustrated History of the North Cornwall Railway" there's a table on page 339 with all the set configurations and coach numbers.

 

Hope this helps

Edited January 5, 2012 by 2ManySpams

[Tim Hale]

Many thanks,

 

Thankfully, I bought a couple of the '57 suburban add-on packs in addition to a large number of regular Maunsell coaches.

 

Although nothing to do with P-sets, I was under the impression that that the high-window 4-comp brakes were also WoE vehicles, the extra luggage compartments were provided for the holiday traffic. Was that impression misplaced?

 

Tim

[Oldddudders]

Although nothing to do with P-sets, I was under the impression that that the high-window 4-comp brakes were also WoE vehicles, the extra luggage compartments were provided for the holiday traffic. Was that impression misplaced?

4-compartment BTKs nos 3716 - 3731 were, according to King, ordered in 1929 for Weymouth & Portsmouth services, and Southampton boat services, although he & Gould doubt many were actually used on the last-named. The remaining 4-compartment brakes, 3664 - 71 & 4095 - 7 were ordered for interchange services to other railways, Bournemouth-Birkenhead etc., with appropriate gangways.

[spamcan61]

Thanks Rod, as you say, not quite the NCR but probably based off the same shed? I'll add them to my list.

 

Can’t believe I’ve only just found this thread!

 

Anyway, some more D63xx spotting around the NCR(ish):-

 

Colour Rail slide DE201 has an UID D63xx (GSYP) East of Wadebridge, hauling an intriguing 3 coach train, all in maroon by the looks of it, outer two coaches have the 1^st class yellow stripe, rear one has the coaching stock roundel. Don’t look like Maunsell stock or ‘B’ sets.

 

BR Fleet Survey vol. 2 has a very shiny D6339 GSYP at Grogley on 24^th April ’62 hauling what looks like a ‘B’ set. Headcode 2C56.

 

Bill Chapman’s ‘Way out West’ colour slide CD has a shot of another UID D63xx at Wadebridge, alongside a single car DMU, D63xx is sort of showing 2C 56.

 

Backtrack July ’97 has a nice colour shot of D6326 at Boscarne Junction on 25^th June ’62. Loco has no headcode boxes or yellow panel. Stock UID boots looks green so presumably a Maunsell set.

 

Western region in colour page 54 has a shot of D6314 in April '62, no headcode boxes, no yellow panel, supposedly at Wadebridge, although the location possibly looks more like Boscarne or Grogley to me.

Edited January 6, 2012 by spamcan61

[2ManySpams]

Although nothing to do with P-sets, I was under the impression that that the high-window 4-comp brakes were also WoE vehicles, the extra luggage compartments were provided for the holiday traffic. Was that impression misplaced?

 

Tim

 

West of England isn't the same as west of Exeter! As OldDudders says they wereused on the easternish side of the Western District and a few inter-regional services. Also a few appeared on the Somerset and Dorset....

[Tim Hale]

If I recall correctly, on another RMweb discussion (see link), it seemed that these particular coaches were designed for use on WoE trains where the extra luggage space was needed but found them to be an operating liability. Whilst the lo-window versions were are supposed to have been re-deployed to the S&DJR, there is a 4-comp brake running through Basingstoke courtesy of the Southern Film Archive in the late 40's and Basingstoke is definitely off the S&DJR. Perhaps the re-deployment was not as rigorous as Mike King suggested as the traffic department used anything that was available on the South West mainline prior to the wholesale introduction of Bulleid stock?

 

Whilst I think that I can understand your comment that the 'West of England isn't the same as west of Exeter' it really depends what is your perception of the WoE.

 

Tim

 

http://www.rmweb.co....8-sd-coach-pack

[Oldddudders]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/64215236@N03/6000721911/in/photostream

 

I thought this a remarkable picture, not least for being that loco, that date.

[The Stationmaster]

http://www.flickr.co.../in/photostream

 

I thought this a remarkable picture, not least for being that loco, that date.

It was 'withdrawn' during that year - but I can't find out which month. (I say 'withdrawn' because according to a Wiki source it in fact remained in capital stock and simply reappeared in its new livery the following year)

Edited January 8, 2012 by The Stationmaster

[Oldddudders]

It was 'withdrawn' during that year - but I can't find out which month. (I say 'withdrawn' because according to a Wiki source it in fact remained in capital stock and simply reappeared in its new livery the following year)

Yes, the date is interesting. The Irwell Press book, in the Motive Power chapter, sub-headed - "Additional information by [2manyspams]" - lists 30313 (new in Hornby for 2012), 30709, 30715 and 30717 as being withdrawn from Okehampton in July 1961, but Derry's "Book of the T9s" lists 30120 as being at Exmouth Junction from March to November that year, when it returned to Eastleigh, so perhaps there was a T9 presence for slightly longer than the July.

[2ManySpams]

Very interesting photo and nice to see the old girl kicking around as late as that.

 

The T9 text on pages 247 and 248 of the re-issued Wroe NCR book is largely the original author's work with some modification. David's original text for Chapter 7 concentrated on the earlier LSWR classes (which I guess from his other books was his area of interest) so the majority of the 'additional info' I added covered the Maunsell, Bulleid, BR, Ex LMS, Ex GWR and early diesels.

 

Conventional published wisdom has it that the T9s ceased to be used on the NCR in July 1961, being replaced for the summer services by the U1s, which in turn gave way to the BR Std 4 Tanks. (We take a liberty on Treneglos by running these three classes together...). The original Wroe text refers to them leaving the NCR and Okehampton outstation as it's a book on the NCR but overlooks that it was still kicking around at Exmouth until late 1961 and (if the caption is correct) used on the occasional sortie to Okehampton. It then obviously goes off and becomes part of the national collection, gets reliveried in LSWR green and was seen again on the NCR pulling specials in 1963 (see page 406).

 

Time was tight at then and I've since added additional margin notes to my working copy of the NCR book. For the T9s this includes tender and crest info. I've also noted that 30120 returned in '63.

 

Whilst looking at T9 info in the book, please also note the following which (IMO) are corrections:

#Page 11 the loco is 30338

#Page 174 the 'top' caption should refer to 30717 not 30713

#Page 292 the 'below and right' caption should list 30338 not 30138 as one of the T9s around in 1960.

 

Great find though Ian - pity it wasn't shot at Camelford though!

Edited January 8, 2012 by 2ManySpams

[Tim Hale]

Conventional published wisdom has it that the T9s ceased to be used on the NCR in July 1961, being replaced for the summer services by the U1s, which in turn gave way to the BR Std 4 Tanks.

 

IIRC, the U1's were not well received and were replaced as quickly as possible.

 

Bu there again my memory is not that good.

 

Tim