The Engine Shed

[The Johnster]

Hornby's website has this as a Railroad model in G W R initials livery for £44.99, available September, so the Warley version is simply a limited edition livery, not a limited edition loco.  Whatever I've said about the running, and whether or not I was justified (it now looks as if I wan't and the current iteration of the model does not have the suspect Airfix type chassis), this is a very nicely finished version of an attractive livery, and even better value in that sense than the production G W R unlined green model.  

 

I will be wanting one in unlined black with BRITISH RAILWAYS sans serif lettering based on a photo of 1421 at Cowbridge in John Lewis' 'Great Western Auto Trailers part 1' and will be hacking the top feed off and painting everything black anyway, so will not be falling prey to eBay profiteers; the G W R production version will do me fine!  The intention is to scratchbuild a diagram A7 trailer with the toplights plated over to go with it, but that is a long term project.  

Edited August 13, 2017 by The Johnster

[dibber25]

Simon Kohler frequently told us - at the much-maligned annual Broadstairs press event - that the release of a new state-of-the-art model by another manufacturer prompted renewed interest in Hornby's older, less detailed, lower priced offering. In this case the DJM/Hattons (not DJH as quoted elsewhere in this thread) model has presumably re-awakened demand for the old Hornby/Dapol/Airfix model. It wasn't nearly as bad as some on here make out. I ran two or three on my Black Dog Halt layout at shows over a decade and they rarely let me down, though I had none with plunger pick-ups. the folk who will buy these won't be bothered by the presence, or not, of a top-feed. (CJL)

[Ian Hargrave]

Of course it being a limited edition of just 250, the EBay Profiteers will still scoop them up in bulk and be posting them at twice the going rate within hours or less of Warley's doors opening.

I don't think that's quite the point of this issue. It's an intelligent marketing strategy designed to draw in potential customers to the Hornby stand "on the day"....with a view to expand sales. I think it's a smart move and a novel one to "shake the tree" in bringing in new customers.A refreshing change ? I believe so.

[railroadbill]

Rails have the standard  Railroad 14xx for   £34.50 for pre order, which seems a very good price imho. 

https://railsofsheffield.com/railroad-gwr-0-4-2t-4837-class-14xx-2017-range--JJJA32461.aspx

No connection, just an example.

I bought my Airfix (by then GMR) 14xx in about 1981,  think they went for about £7 then.  It was in the 1980 Airfix catalogue,  so for essentially the same model to be manufactured on and off over 37 years is quite a history. (Ok, revised and better running chassis now, but my Airfix one now runs well after a lot of TLC, adjustment and electrolube in the  plunger pickups, and indeed more running).  I'm thinking the Hornby Dublo N2 and pacifics had a really long manufacturing run, but maybe in years to come the 14xx will outlive them all. :-)

 

I do think that the availability of a cheapish, very cute small tank loco to encourage a new generation (I'm looking at my grandchildren here) is a very good idea.

[Clearwater]

I don't think that's quite the point of this issue. It's an intelligent marketing strategy designed to draw in potential customers to the Hornby stand "on the day"....with a view to expand sales. I think it's a smart move and a novel one to "shake the tree" in bringing in new customers.A refreshing change ? I believe so.

It may also not be a complete coincidence but I don't think Hattons attend shows and therefore won't be at Warley. Smart also to support retail by making it available via their stockists at the show and not just via their own stall.

 

David

[adb968008]

250 isn't a lot given how many people trundle through Warley.

Additionally, having the prototype infront of the model always helps.

At this price I suspect they will be gone by Saturday evening, It might be as many as 50 gone before the doors open.

 

Still if it distracts the herd from the Bachmann stand, then it helps.

[jjb1970]

This is a diverse hobby, I suspect most RMwebers favour high end super detailed models but there is a market for cheaper more basic models. Not everybody wants, or can afford, the latest high end models. And the Railroad line is good for those who like detailing and converting models. I think the Railroad line fills a useful niche and it'd be a poorer hobby without it.

[Dunsignalling]

Rails have the standard  Railroad 14xx for   £34.50 for pre order, which seems a very good price imho. 

https://railsofsheffield.com/railroad-gwr-0-4-2t-4837-class-14xx-2017-range--JJJA32461.aspx

No connection, just an example.

I bought my Airfix (by then GMR) 14xx in about 1981,  think they went for about £7 then.  It was in the 1980 Airfix catalogue,  so for essentially the same model to be manufactured on and off over 37 years is quite a history. (Ok, revised and better running chassis now, but my Airfix one now runs well after a lot of TLC, adjustment and electrolube in the  plunger pickups, and indeed more running).  I'm thinking the Hornby Dublo N2 and pacifics had a really long manufacturing run, but maybe in years to come the 14xx will outlive them all. :-)

 

I do think that the availability of a cheapish, very cute small tank loco to encourage a new generation (I'm looking at my grandchildren here) is a very good idea.

Definitely an improvement on the likes of Smokey Joe and, as you say, a good "bridge" for youngsters moving from a train set to their first model railway.

 

That adding one coach gives them an authentic complete train formation suitable for even the smallest layout is a great bonus.

 

John  

[Hroth]

And its a recognisable locomotive, unlike the generic 0-4-0 locos that infest the starter sets.  With 4 still existing and 1450 actually operational and the star guest at Warley this year it would be a very attractive loco to squirrel away for a Christmas gift for a deserving child!

 

I think Hornby are missing a trick here.  Apart from train sets, currently ALL the Hornby train packs are of high end models at high end prices.  There's nothing to "expand" starter sets (I've just had a look at the Hornby web site).  There used to be a diesel shunter pack with the old  Jinty chassis 08 plus a few miscellaneous wagons and the ubiquitous 101 0-4-0 with more wagons, hardly exciting upgrades!  But a decent, intelligent. Railroad train pack programme could be a winner. They've the recent iteration of the Jinty, pack that with a couple of wagons and a brakevan and you'd have a representative local goods pack. Put the 14xx with an autocoach and its a branch line passenger train pack.  Revive some of the old Triang play sets (the Mail Coach set, Working Ore Hopper set and the Working Log Tipper set all come to mind) and play value is enhanced too.  All Hornby need then do is keep clear of the dodgy liveries and the even dodgier names that adorn their baseline 0-4-0s!

 

Oh well...........

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Rails have the standard  Railroad 14xx for   £34.50 for pre order, which seems a very good price...

I bought my Airfix (by then GMR) 14xx in about 1981,  ... N2 ...

... 61xx. These other two - from the same stable - could do with being 'railroaded' too. The benefit of a more stable mechanism in model form makes them more suitable for the young too.

[Hroth]

... 61xx. These other two - from the same stable - could do with being 'railroaded' too. The benefit of a more stable mechanism in model form makes them more suitable for the young too.

Those, together with the 2P 4-4-0 and the 4F 0-6-0, all locos that sit uneasily in the main range and are eminently suited for Railroad train packing too. A 61xx and a couple of B set coaches, an N2 or 4F and some goods wagons, and for "big" passenger expresses, the 2P or a Shire and couple of basic corridor coaches.

 

All aspirational stuff for a railway minded child.  Get some into Argos at competitive prices....

 

Argos currently list the dire Junior play train (ready to order soon) for £40 and an "Intercity Express" set branded low detail 395 (aka the Blue Rapier set) for £99.  If they can offer the 395 including a 3rd rad oval with siding and controller for that, they could do a decent train pack for 20 quid less and get buyers.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Hroth

[The Stationmaster]

And its a recognisable locomotive, unlike the generic 0-4-0 locos that infest the starter sets.  With 4 still existing and 1450 actually operational and the star guest at Warley this year it would be a very attractive loco to squirrel away for a Christmas gift for a deserving child!

 

I think Hornby are missing a trick here.  Apart from train sets, currently ALL the Hornby train packs are of high end models at high end prices.  There's nothing to "expand" starter sets (I've just had a look at the Hornby web site).  There used to be a diesel shunter pack with the old  Jinty chassis 08 plus a few miscellaneous wagons and the ubiquitous 101 0-4-0 with more wagons, hardly exciting upgrades!  But a decent, intelligent. Railroad train pack programme could be a winner. They've the recent iteration of the Jinty, pack that with a couple of wagons and a brakevan and you'd have a representative local goods pack. Put the 14xx with an autocoach and its a branch line passenger train pack.  Revive some of the old Triang play sets (the Mail Coach set, Working Ore Hopper set and the Working Log Tipper set all come to mind) and play value is enhanced too.  All Hornby need then do is keep clear of the dodgy liveries and the even dodgier names that adorn their baseline 0-4-0s!

 

Oh well...........

 

I suspect that it all depends on where Hornby see their current best returns coming from and that might well be taking, still, some precedence over longer term marketing strategy,  If you can market a train pack for £200 and sell it from the warehouse to the retailers (who will then discount it if they can) you no no doubt make more money than knocking out something with lower production costs for a sub £100 price.  Not that I disagree with your idea but I thin we have to recognise a goodly part of the market reality faced by Hornby and also acknowledge that in effect lower price train packs would be more likely competing with EBay for sales rather than anything else.

[Clearwater]

Hornby may we'll understand that they sell more expensive train sets to hobby returnees or as retirement gifts where the cost is one that market will bear. It may also be the case that allocating a set number of a particular model to a train set is part of getting to a viable batch size

 

David

[Hroth]

I agree with both of you, its all marketing driven and looks to the highest margin to get a nice return for the next quarter balance sheet.  But once all the well-heeled returnees fall off their perches, then what?  Unless interest has been piqued in the young, or in those returners who would like to have something a bit more interesting (and NEW, not pre-used) and can't justify expensive stuff, then they're not going to shift anything.

 

The other thing is, production-wise, its win-win if they put some things they're making already into a pack.  It saves the buyer the problem of getting it separately and the problem of limited stocks of separate models.

 

And perhaps, just perhaps, someone from Hornby might see this....

[The Johnster]

As for expansion from the basic train sets, there are of course the track packs and track mats, a very good idea for basic modelling.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... its all marketing driven and looks to the highest margin to get a nice return for the next quarter balance sheet.  But once all the well-heeled returnees fall off their perches, then what? ...

We solve this problem when it comes along to bite us! For now we just keep doing what works for this quarter's results...

[Hroth]

We solve this problem when it comes along to bite us! For now we just keep doing what works for this quarter's results...

And then it'll be someone elses problem.......

[Dunsignalling]

I agree with both of you, its all marketing driven and looks to the highest margin to get a nice return for the next quarter balance sheet.  But once all the well-heeled returnees fall off their perches, then what?  Unless interest has been piqued in the young, or in those returners who would like to have something a bit more interesting (and NEW, not pre-used) and can't justify expensive stuff, then they're not going to shift anything.

 

The other thing is, production-wise, its win-win if they put some things they're making already into a pack.  It saves the buyer the problem of getting it separately and the problem of limited stocks of separate models.

 

And perhaps, just perhaps, someone from Hornby might see this....

Hornby are making hay while the sun shines so far as the grey pound is concerned. When that stops working, they will shift their emphasis accordingly. What they definitely won't do before that happens is to give low-profit items priority for scarce production slots over high-profit ones.

 

In very many cases, it is the older modellers/enthusiasts who get their grandkids into train sets rather than parents so Hornby probably stand to take a hit at both ends of the market as time passes.

 

I think their business, and the hobby in general, will look very different 20 years hence, but it will be down to those involved to face the challenges that will arise, not those of us whose inevitable departures will drive the changes.

 

John

Edited August 14, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[Dunsignalling]

I agree with both of you, its all marketing driven and looks to the highest margin to get a nice return for the next quarter balance sheet.  But once all the well-heeled returnees fall off their perches, then what?  Unless interest has been piqued in the young, or in those returners who would like to have something a bit more interesting (and NEW, not pre-used) and can't justify expensive stuff, then they're not going to shift anything.

 

The other thing is, production-wise, its win-win if they put some things they're making already into a pack.  It saves the buyer the problem of getting it separately and the problem of limited stocks of separate models.

 

And perhaps, just perhaps, someone from Hornby might see this....

Aaargh! the J word rears its ugly head again.

 

We can either afford our desired models or not - "justify" is just a code word for "I've got the money but I'm either too tight or have other things I'd rather spend it on". 

 

Sorry, but how Hornby go about developing their future customer base is their problem, not mine.

 

Right now, their priority must be to extract the moolah from those of us with a proven tendency to spend. If they don't succeed in that, they won't have a future.

 

John

Edited August 16, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[Caledonian]

And its a recognisable locomotive, unlike the generic 0-4-0 locos that infest the starter sets.  With 4 still existing and 1450 actually operational and the star guest at Warley this year it would be a very attractive loco to squirrel away for a Christmas gift for a deserving child!

 

I think Hornby are missing a trick here.  Apart from train sets, currently ALL the Hornby train packs are of high end models at high end prices.  There's nothing to "expand" starter sets (I've just had a look at the Hornby web site).  There used to be a diesel shunter pack with the old  Jinty chassis 08 plus a few miscellaneous wagons and the ubiquitous 101 0-4-0 with more wagons, hardly exciting upgrades!  But a decent, intelligent. Railroad train pack programme could be a winner. They've the recent iteration of the Jinty, pack that with a couple of wagons and a brakevan and you'd have a representative local goods pack. Put the 14xx with an autocoach and its a branch line passenger train pack.  Revive some of the old Triang play sets (the Mail Coach set, Working Ore Hopper set and the Working Log Tipper set all come to mind) and play value is enhanced too.  All Hornby need then do is keep clear of the dodgy liveries and the even dodgier names that adorn their baseline 0-4-0s!

 

Oh well...........

 

I wonder whether the catch-em young strategy might actually be focused on the wrong demographic. How many children presented with a Smokey Joe train-set for Christmas are really going to mature over the years into modellers? Might trying to capture the young professional market not be more productive; people who want to take up something which doesn't involve endless drinking or pretty coloured lights on the box in the corner, or both.

 

Point being that they might not be ready to invest in Hornby's finest at £170 a pop at the go get, but an intelligent and realistic train-set using decent railroad locos - and some decent rolling stock rather than the time expired toys that usually pad out train sets. A start has been made with the DCC sets, but neither the locos nor the stock on offer strike me as "grown-up" quality.

[adb968008]

No ones commented on the massive price drop for a 14xx... £70 rrp 6 years ago (R3027) to £45 now in 2018's Railroad range ?

 

Following the laws of inflation (R3022 Terrier also of 2011 range, was £61 rrp, compares to today's Terrier with an rrp of £84.99 today), following the same price ratio, (+40%) this one over the last 6 years should be £98rrp by now.

 

This 14xx has beaten inflation, and then some... remarkable.. maybe the toolings been fully depreciated / achieved ROI returns and it's now just a commodity loco, price reflecting just its assembly costs + margin ? Who knows ? -it's certainly a bargain £35 at rails, I'm tempted just to put a new chassis under my old knackered airfix style chassis ones.

Edited August 14, 2017 by adb968008

[The Blue Streak]

There's a few things to smile about reading through the last couple of days worth of posts on this thread.

 

The first is that there's another chance to get a Peckett, (I dithered when the first ones were released and obviously missed out)

 

Secondly the LMS chaps have something to crow about, finally new tooling of the Duchess/ Coronation class. Not being a modeller of the LMS I wouldn't know how old the previous tooling was, but alongside Hornby's A3 and A4's it looks a little dated. I like the look of the Duchess and a newly tooled version might be enough to get Me to buy one. (Although I'm also tempted to buy one of the new MN's )

 

Finally the discussion regarding the little 14xx, I am pleased that the majority of posters have seen the Hornby 14xx as a nice little engine that will look good on the layout at a reasonable price. It also bought a smile to my face seeing the rivet counters/ whingers and Moaners bought back down to Earth by the majority of you blokes. Crikey how can anyone really spare the time and energy to crack a sad about a model that now sits in the railroad range and is priced accordingly.

 

Should the Hornby be compared to the Dave Jones version ? - of course not.

Is there room for both? -  absolutely, the Hornby version is still a fine little model for many and the DJ model is there for those who want that little bit more and are prepared to pay for it. Both great models in their respective price and detail ranges.

Edited August 15, 2017 by The Blue Streak

[Hilux5972]

Well said Blue. Really gets my goat when people seem to moan just for the sake of moaning. The Warley 14xx is a fantastically model, and a lovely way to mark the anniversary.

[Ian Hargrave]

250 isn't a lot given how many people trundle through Warley.

Additionally, having the prototype infront of the model always helps.

At this price I suspect they will be gone by Saturday evening, It might be as many as 50 gone before the doors open.

Still if it distracts the herd from the Bachmann stand, then it helps.

Good Moooooning from one of the herd.if you recall last year the abovementioned were abruptly deterred from the usual pillage by the sight of an opaque enclosure for exclusive use of Bachmann Collectors Club members.There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth by disgruntled non members as I recall......especially on this forum.But,as I noted at the time,as a member of "The Club" (an exclusive pedigree herd) I did enjoy the caviar blinis and Moët Chandon.....

[The Stationmaster]

I agree with both of you, its all marketing driven and looks to the highest margin to get a nice return for the next quarter balance sheet.  But once all the well-heeled returnees fall off their perches, then what?  Unless interest has been piqued in the young, or in those returners who would like to have something a bit more interesting (and NEW, not pre-used) and can't justify expensive stuff, then they're not going to shift anything.

 

The other thing is, production-wise, its win-win if they put some things they're making already into a pack.  It saves the buyer the problem of getting it separately and the problem of limited stocks of separate models.

 

And perhaps, just perhaps, someone from Hornby might see this....

 

This is a fascinating area.  The first thing we need to remember is that the number of us with grey (ok white in many places) hair is increasing all the time as there are more coming in at the bottom than there are leaving from the top end.  That of course leads to the obvious question about the 'interests' and hobbies of the new arrivals and this could well be where a gap occurs - it all depends how interest in railways and modelling them or simply in model railways is established in the first place.  Some of the German manufacturers have in the past played hard to attract the adult market and present model railways as something more sophisticated than simple toys - I don't know how well that has worked.

 

The collecting angle also plays a part although in its purest sense probably only a small part but judging by other areas of collecting with which I'm familiar while things tend t come in 'waves' what a marketeer might call 'new interest' does occur and almost inevitably it is from those of more mature years, back to those coming in at the bottom.

 

Whether this will happen in model railways is difficult to say and thus far the results are perhaps not the most encouraging but we don't know what lies around the corner.