ICI Hoppers from Hatton's in Partnership with Oxford Rail

[tetsudofan]

Notification of order processing also received this afternoon. Looks like its going to be "wagon week" as my Kernow Turbots arrived today......

 

Keith

[roy h]

3 coming for now just need the weathered ones now. can not believe it was march2015 these were announced. well done hattons thanks for bringing these to our layouts.

Edited February 13, 2018 by roy h

[gridwatcher]

We appear to be ON payment taken! I have borrowed a good friend of mine Steven Brindley's magnificent image at Skelton Junction just to send you all into Froth overload!!

[pharrc20]

Yep i now officially have £8 left until payday lol. I sense a trip over the new bridge at weekend to go and collect them...

[tetsudofan]

Very pleasant and polite guy from Yodel has just delivered a box from Widnes containing some ICI hoppers. First impression was a sensible-sized box:

 

 

Managed to take a couple of quick pics:

 

 

 

Not had a chance to run them yet but first impressions are good. Like the detail, the raised "ICI", the wagon number, the owner's plate and the printing on the axle boxes. 

 

Keith

 

 

 

[Barry O]

I sent an email to Hattons re my preorder. It is that long since i preordered them a new card number is required. AsI am away at the moment I also don't want them posting out..but no response...hopefully yodel will return them to Hattons...

 

Baz

[gridwatcher]

I sent an email to Hattons re my preorder. It is that long since i preordered them a new card number is required. AsI am away at the moment I also don't want them posting out..but no response...hopefully yodel will return them to Hattons...

 

Baz

 

Had same issue. Phone them......

[Northmoor MPD]

My hoppers arrived today!

First impressions... WOW! Stunning models, waited many years for these! Very fine detail, the rivets etc are some of the best I’ve seen!

Well done to Hattons and oxford!

Must get my weathered ones ordered now!

Here’s a few pictures on my layout...

Enjoy!

Adam

[roy h]

three arrived to day very impressive shame i wont get to run them until tomorrow

[PrestburyJack]

Could these have been used to move limestone from Ashburton quarry in Devon to the ICI factory in Yalding in Kent?

And if so, could S15s and (later on) Class 33s have been used to haul them?

Presumably they would have waited in a loop whilst the Brighton Belle went past?

Followed by a Midland Pullman taking racegoers on an excursion from Derby to The Derby?

In which case I'll be able to justify a rake!

 

Update - Just had a 'live chat' with Hattons regarding these, which included the following:

 

Help me justify them on a Southern Railway / Region based layout!!

 

Oh well that one is easy. They could have been put on trial flows for any aggregate industry down on the Southern coast.

 

So there we are then.

Edited February 16, 2018 by PrestburyJack

[SHMD]

I have no idea but I suspect that Rule1 would be the only way.

 

They look wonderful, and exactly how I remember them, but  sadly I only have room for one - and even then only as a "cripple"!

 

 

 

Kev.

 

[gridwatcher]

My first two of 15 arrived yesterday and I am delighted. I have waited over 50 years for the 'ICI's and the model, while relatively simple, is accurate of shape and 'looks right' all praise to Oxford/Hattons for getting them to market at a very fair price too. I suspect they might be rather popular?!

[Sandhole]

My first two of 15 arrived yesterday and I am delighted. I have waited over 50 years for the 'ICI's and the model, while relatively simple, is accurate of shape and 'looks right' all praise to Oxford/Hattons for getting them to market at a very fair price too. I suspect they might be rather popular?!

Mine came two days ago.

They run superbly through any Peco track and points.

I second your final comment!!

[Enterprisingwestern]

My first two of 15 arrived yesterday and I am delighted. I have waited over 50 years for the 'ICI's and the model, while relatively simple, is accurate of shape and 'looks right' all praise to Oxford/Hattons for getting them to market at a very fair price too. I suspect they might be rather popular?!

 

More popular and valuable on a certain auction site if there isn't a second run?

My rule 1 is that they were used on a Buxton - Immingham export flow!

 

Mike.

[pharrc20]

Only one day until I collect mine from the store tomorrow. And Hatton's very kindly left me a phone message to confirm they were awaiting collection so that is a big thanks to them. I was looking back through my I.C.I. hopper email archive last night for something and it made me wonder how many of the people who have emailed me in the past 18 years or so are still intending or have brought the models? After all of the false starts with proposed kits and projects it is satisfying to finally see the model after all of these. I guess my old High Peak Casters resin, Appleby Model Engineering resin/white metal, Uncommon Kits etched brass models can finally be retired although the Appleby ones were the best detail wise. It is a pity that the 3D printed model from Wild Boar Models did not get completed and released as that would have been a worthy successor to the early resin kits.

 

Now surely Hatton's must be on a winner with these models and there will be others like me who would like to see them produce the 3rd batch of I.C.I. wagons nos. 3320-3351 / ICIM/BLI 19120-19151 and the Summers/British Steel wagons later ICIM/BLI 19152 - 19164....

 

Cheers Paul

[gridwatcher]

Only one day until I collect mine from the store tomorrow. And Hatton's very kindly left me a phone message to confirm they were awaiting collection so that is a big thanks to them. I was looking back through my I.C.I. hopper email archive last night for something and it made me wonder how many of the people who have emailed me in the past 18 years or so are still intending or have brought the models? After all of the false starts with proposed kits and projects it is satisfying to finally see the model after all of these. I guess my old High Peak Casters resin, Appleby Model Engineering resin/white metal, Uncommon Kits etched brass models can finally be retired although the Appleby ones were the best detail wise. It is a pity that the 3D printed model from Wild Boar Models did not get completed and released as that would have been a worthy successor to the early resin kits.

 

Now surely Hatton's must be on a winner with these models and there will be others like me who would like to see them produce the 3rd batch of I.C.I. wagons nos. 3320-3351 / ICIM/BLI 19120-19151 and the Summers/British Steel wagons later ICIM/BLI 19152 - 19164....

 

Cheers Paul

 

Paul are the Summers wagons the ones that are retro vac fitted and slightly taller in their sides? I seem to remember rakes having an odd wagon or two that were slightly different size? ? PS thanks for all your inspiration over the years, I am sure your championing of these wagons has in no small measure had an effect on Hattons' decision to produce them for RTR market. Anyone fancy building Skelton Junction in OO!?

[pharrc20]

Hi gridwatcher, nearly its the other way round the Summers wagons were slightly lower in height by 3 or 4 inches enough to be able to make them stand out when in I.C.I. ownership.

 

13 were purchased by BR as compensation for 13 written off in several accidents upto 1982 by which time the then British Steel fleet of 123 wagons were surplus to requirements following the end of steel production at Shotton in 1980. Initially 8 were taken to I.C.I. Avenue works and given a full overhaul to their specs and given vacuum braking (presumably using parts recovered from the scrapped 13?). The new ICIM 19152 was sent to the RTC at Derby for type testing and vehicle acceptance upon which the remaining 5 joined the queue for conversion. They did however retain the straight end ladders during their refurbishment and all were added to the Roadstone pool of wagons.

 

In addition I believe that I.C.I acquired spares from the remaining wagons at Shotton especially the plate frame bogies. This is how I.C.I. were able to eliminate the diamond frame bogies from the first 84 wagons by then ICIM 19000-19083 as these wagons became due for overhaul.

 

Funnily enough I was just as suprised when the models were first announced back in March 2015 when I was ironically or appropriately at Peak Forest for the day. I have had no direct involvement with the model other than offering feedback via this thread. Though the penny did drop that day recalling an email conversation I had with Tim Mulhall asking for info the previous October/November 2014!

 

Anyway it is good to finally see them in rtr model form. I have just collected my 8 today from the store and sales are going well. There was a chap in the shop at same time and he brought 8 or 10 there and then.

 

Cheers Paul

 

Paul are the Summers wagons the ones that are retro vac fitted and slightly taller in their sides? I seem to remember rakes having an odd wagon or two that were slightly different size? ? PS thanks for all your inspiration over the years, I am sure your championing of these wagons has in no small measure had an effect on Hattons' decision to produce them for RTR market. Anyone fancy building Skelton Junction in OO!?

[Barry O]

Had same issue. Phone them......

not from where I am at the moment..looks like they have sent them..so that's another parcel yodel can lose...

[peterfgf]

Hi gridwatcher, nearly its the other way round the Summers wagons were slightly lower in height by 3 or 4 inches enough to be able to make them stand out when in I.C.I. ownership.

 

13 were purchased by BR as compensation for 13 written off in several accidents upto 1982 by which time the then British Steel fleet of 123 wagons were surplus to requirements following the end of steel production at Shotton in 1980. Initially 8 were taken to I.C.I. Avenue works and given a full overhaul to their specs and given vacuum braking (presumably using parts recovered from the scrapped 13?). The new ICIM 19152 was sent to the RTC at Derby for type testing and vehicle acceptance upon which the remaining 5 joined the queue for conversion. They did however retain the straight end ladders during their refurbishment and all were added to the Roadstone pool of wagons.

 

In addition I believe that I.C.I acquired spares from the remaining wagons at Shotton especially the plate frame bogies. This is how I.C.I. were able to eliminate the diamond frame bogies from the first 84 wagons by then ICIM 19000-19083 as these wagons became due for overhaul.

 

Funnily enough I was just as suprised when the models were first announced back in March 2015 when I was ironically or appropriately at Peak Forest for the day. I have had no direct involvement with the model other than offering feedback via this thread. Though the penny did drop that day recalling an email conversation I had with Tim Mulhall asking for info the previous October/November 2014!

 

Anyway it is good to finally see them in rtr model form. I have just collected my 8 today from the store and sales are going well. There was a chap in the shop at same time and he brought 8 or 10 there and then.

 

Cheers Paul

 

I bought 10 in a mixture of the earlier types and colour schemes.  I am very pleased indeed with them.  Congratulations to Hattons and Oxford rail.  I will probably buy another four, perhaps the weathered variety, to go up to the maximum length of my sidings.

[gridwatcher]

Hi gridwatcher, nearly its the other way round the Summers wagons were slightly lower in height by 3 or 4 inches enough to be able to make them stand out when in I.C.I. ownership.

 

13 were purchased by BR as compensation for 13 written off in several accidents upto 1982 by which time the then British Steel fleet of 123 wagons were surplus to requirements following the end of steel production at Shotton in 1980. Initially 8 were taken to I.C.I. Avenue works and given a full overhaul to their specs and given vacuum braking (presumably using parts recovered from the scrapped 13?). The new ICIM 19152 was sent to the RTC at Derby for type testing and vehicle acceptance upon which the remaining 5 joined the queue for conversion. They did however retain the straight end ladders during their refurbishment and all were added to the Roadstone pool of wagons.

 

In addition I believe that I.C.I acquired spares from the remaining wagons at Shotton especially the plate frame bogies. This is how I.C.I. were able to eliminate the diamond frame bogies from the first 84 wagons by then ICIM 19000-19083 as these wagons became due for overhaul.

 

Funnily enough I was just as suprised when the models were first announced back in March 2015 when I was ironically or appropriately at Peak Forest for the day. I have had no direct involvement with the model other than offering feedback via this thread. Though the penny did drop that day recalling an email conversation I had with Tim Mulhall asking for info the previous October/November 2014!

 

Anyway it is good to finally see them in rtr model form. I have just collected my 8 today from the store and sales are going well. There was a chap in the shop at same time and he brought 8 or 10 there and then.

 

Cheers Paul

 

 

Paul

 

Does that make conversion if Hattons don't do them easier then? What about rib numbers etc etc or any other details differences? Not easy to top slice a waogn accurately but worth doing one?!

[pharrc20]

Paul

 

Does that make conversion if Hattons don't do them easier then? What about rib numbers etc etc or any other details differences? Not easy to top slice a waogn accurately but worth doing one?!

In theory you could slice the top off the hopper body and put a new top lip and the small end flat piece on and the row of rivets immediately below to make a Summers wagon. The pair of end T stanchions would need redoing as they are now shorter and the angle reduced and the 3 panel end plate would also need to be adjusted slightly again due to angles. How that would come out on the model I have no idea!?

 

However the biggest alteration would be the positioning of the 2nd and 5th rivet strips and the supporting gussets or ribs on the non-vac pipe side i.e. the side with hopper door release/return handles on.

 

As modelled the rib is to the right of the 1st 2nd 3rd strips then to the left of the strip on 4th 5th 6th so R R R L L L.

 

On the I.C.I. third batch of 1951 and both of the Summers batches this changes so that the strips on handles side changes to become paired R L R L R L. Hence the orientation of the 2nd and 5th strips changes and therefore the ribs too. Quite why this was changed I never did find out. I can only surmise it was related to the leverage of the discharge handles the longer ones next to 2nd and 5th strips. Unless any one knows any different do please tell.

 

Otherwise afaik chassis is the same, the bogies were same plate frame with oil axleboxes - I.C.I. batch later converted to BR/Timken roller bearings as per later models; Summers /BSC were always oil bearings based on known photos (except the 13 to I.C.I. they received roller bearing upgrade). Slightly different pattern buffers as well. Vac brake equipment wouls need taking off completely and the rib holes filling in.

 

Quite a bit of work involved then methinks.

 

Cheers Paul

[gridwatcher]

In theory you could slice the top off the hopper body and put a new top lip and the small end flat piece on and the row of rivets immediately below to make a Summers wagon. The pair of end T stanchions would need redoing as they are now shorter and the angle reduced and the 3 panel end plate would also need to be adjusted slightly again due to angles. How that would come out on the model I have no idea!?

 

However the biggest alteration would be the positioning of the 2nd and 5th rivet strips and the supporting gussets or ribs on the non-vac pipe side i.e. the side with hopper door release/return handles on.

 

As modelled the rib is to the right of the 1st 2nd 3rd strips then to the left of the strip on 4th 5th 6th so R R R L L L.

 

On the I.C.I. third batch of 1951 and both of the Summers batches this changes so that the strips on handles side changes to become paired R L R L R L. Hence the orientation of the 2nd and 5th strips changes and therefore the ribs too. Quite why this was changed I never did find out. I can only surmise it was related to the leverage of the discharge handles the longer ones next to 2nd and 5th strips. Unless any one knows any different do please tell.

 

Otherwise afaik chassis is the same, the bogies were same plate frame with oil axleboxes - I.C.I. batch later converted to BR/Timken roller bearings as per later models; Summers /BSC were always oil bearings based on known photos (except the 13 to I.C.I. they received roller bearing upgrade). Slightly different pattern buffers as well. Vac brake equipment wouls need taking off completely and the rib holes filling in.

 

Quite a bit of work involved then methinks.

 

Cheers Paul

 

I reckon we ask Hattons nicely if these sell well to do the variant?? 

[pharrc20]

I reckon we ask Hattons nicely if these sell well to do the variant??

In essence yes if we all tell Hatton's we would like them to go on and do these two version...

 

Cheers Paul

[Southernman46]

For your collective enjoyment, here's a badly scanned B&W photo of 40099 on a westbound train passing Chinley on a glorious day back in July 1983, what was the average length of train - 15 wagons ??

Edited February 25, 2018 by Southernman46

[pharrc20]

Hi Southernman46, the Northwich services for Lostock, Oakleigh Sdgs for Winnington and Gorstage Sdgs for Wallerscote tended to load upto 16 loaded in steam era with 8Fs then upto 18 with 9Fs, green 25s then blue diesels into late 80s when pairs of Buxton 37/5s could take upto 24 until the end of 1997 when the wagons were taken out of mainline traffic - very much dependant on what each works needed each day. In the 1990s trains were often split to serve Lostock and Oakleigh.

 

The east and north Manchester roadstone services usually loaded less than 18 depending on requirements at each terminal. Later Hindlow services usually 17. So lots of variation.

 

Cheers Paul