Hornby HST Executive livery possible error

[Waverley West]

 

 

If this 'alternative' logo has been correctly applied by Hornby, then WELL DONE THEM!   I hope, that after waiting 35 years for Hornby to produce a 254 class of HST set for the East coast that they've not buggered it up!!!!   I also notice that the 254 xxx numbering does not appear on the lower section of the nose, as it does with the 253 xxx Western sets!

 

 

 

If the 254 numbering doesn't appear on the nose, then I think it's highly unlikely that the cars are intended to represent an early livery, as HSTs carried set numbers on their ends for quite a while if I remember rightly, certainly longer than the experimental black lettering I should think.

 

Assuming it was intentional though, personally, I'd have much preferred it if Hornby had done the typical "standard" livery as worn for many years, rather than a variation worn for a short while. Fortunately, I already have a blue/grey ER set which I renumbered. Generally, I prefer standard liveries, with just a few celebrities. I'd have much preferred it for example if Bachmann had done the standard railfreight red stripe livery on their 47, than the unique variation they ended up doing for reasons best known to themselves.

[Waverley West]

Hi,

 

I I feel your pain with the mk2e Blue Grey....the shade of grey appears different to me, but the application of the band just doesn't look right.   Infuriating.  The solebar is an issue, but not as glaring as the livery.   I went for the Intercity Swallow ones.   I have to say, the livery on those is well applied and crisply done.

 

Hi Dave,

 

Yes, it was infuriating. If Hornby had avoided the sole bar issue, I'd have bought some InterCity-liveried Mk 2e's. If Bachmann hadn't been doing the Mk 2f, I'd probably have bought a few and removed the sole bar anyway, but that would have been very frustrating and unnecessary work.

 

The blue/grey ones would have needed a complete respray as well as the alterations though and it just wouldn't have been worth it in my opinion. A quick glance at a photo of a blue/grey Mk 2e should have set the alarm bells ringing at Hornby. I know that because I made exactly the same mistake initially, but soon realised just how important the placing of the grey band is in determining the appearance of those coaches. I then completely redid the grey band on my rake and am now very happy with them.

[DaveClass47]

I think you're right BRS, but like you say it was an initial livery variation that was tried out for a short time only. There was also one which had all the blue replaced by black back to the start of the guard's compartment, but I'm not sure whether it ever worked on the mainline in that livery.

I have just noticed...Lima produced a Eastern power car with the black writing inside the white outline.   This was found during a google search!   So perhaps Hornby have been clever and accurate.   Assuming of course that Lima were correct!!

[BR(S)]

This is a good example of the livery variations in the early days.  Power car 43002 with black colouring in place of what became blue: https://flic.kr/p/c5C7Mj

[brushman47544]

The black lettering certainly existed and that aspect looks right, but the Antics imaged linked to earlier shows the later exhaust cowels. Are they on the Hornby model as those two features certainly never co-existed.

[BR(S)]

I've not been able to find any pictures yet, but Colin Marsden's book "HST Silver Jubilee" states in chapter 11 that, after the change of the body side from black to blue, "The outline 'Inter-City 125' legend remained, but surprisingly with black infill.  Subsequent sets emerged in this revised livery style, but from No 43004 the letter infill became the body colour".  It doesn't say which numbers the "Subsequent sets" were.

[Removed a/c]

Oh dear another blunder albeit very minor  

 

 

https://twitter.com/oorail/status/583721685204992000/photo/1

[Hilux5972]

That doesn't surprise me at all. They often make mistakes on the box and sleeves. Personally I'd prefer they made the mistakes there, rather than on the models!

[BR(S)]

Finally found pictures with black infill on the Inter-City 125.  Looks like they're in passenger service too, albeit on the Western Region:

 

253001 at Reading in 1976 by Ado Griff, on Flickr

 

43003 253001 Paddington by nigelmenzies, on Flickr

 

43002 253001 Paddington by nigelmenzies, on Flickr

 

43002 253001 Paddington by nigelmenzies, on Flickr

[Johnfromoz]

While we're on the subject of Hornby HST errors, do any members have suggestions for remedying the cab door problem on the Hornby East Coast HST? The upgraded windows on the real thing are peculiar and surrounded by a thick grommet that would be difficult to scratch build.

 

The best I can do is add the horizontal dividing bar, but the door still looks wrong. I suppose it is too limited a market for an aftermarket etch, given East Coast are the only outfit to have done this to the cab doors.

 

John

[mcowgill]

I think the black infill was only on the first set (253001 / W43002 & W43003) as the remaining part of the original black/yellow livery received at Crewe works before the switch to blue/yellow was made prior to release into service.

 

I'm fairly sure this was unique to the first set and would certainly be wrong for the ECML set, I don't remember any of them like this from hours spent on the platforms at Leeds, Doncaster & York in the late 70s & early 80s.   Anyway, as the Hornby set has the exhaust deflector plates so they are incompatible with any very early livery variations.

 

Martin

[mcowgill]

I've not been able to find any pictures yet, but Colin Marsden's book "HST Silver Jubilee" states in chapter 11 that, after the change of the body side from black to blue, "The outline 'Inter-City 125' legend remained, but surprisingly with black infill.  Subsequent sets emerged in this revised livery style, but from No 43004 the letter infill became the body colour".  It doesn't say which numbers the "Subsequent sets" were.

 

The 'revised livery style' is the blue livery, the original being the black one that was only seen at the Crewe Works open day and on the S&D 150 commemorative stamp set but never used in service.

 

'Subsequent sets' means every set apart from 253001

[cpbell]

I also had the blue/grey Eastern Region cars on order, and they arrived yesterday.  Given that we seem to have established that the set number should be on the lower front nose valances, does anyone know which set number the pair of power cars Hornby has modelled were assigned to, and are the transfers readily-available?

[mcowgill]

E43062/3 were the power cars for east coast set 254004

 

Martin

[cpbell]

E43062/3 were the power cars for east coast set 254004

 

Martin

 

Cheers.

 

EDIT:  Regarding transfers would this sheet do?

 

http://www.railtec-models.com/showitem.php?id=1618

[Geoff Endacott]

Cheers.

 

EDIT:  Regarding transfers would this sheet do?

 

http://www.railtec-models.com/showitem.php?id=1618

 

Yes.

 

Geoff Endacott

[cpbell]

Yes.

 

Geoff Endacott

Thought so - thanks for confirming!

[DaveClass47]

Hi,

 

See attached my photos of the latest HST to come from Hornby, R3269 in Eastern region Blue Grey.   I hope the photos show the black infill to the Intercity writing.  It actually looks pretty cool!

[Geoff Endacott]

Hi,

 

See attached my photos of the latest HST to come from Hornby, R3269 in Eastern region Blue Grey.   I hope the photos show the black infill to the Intercity writing.  It actually looks pretty cool!

 

...but wrong!

 

Geoff Endacott

[GordonC]

cool or not, I dont expect basic livery errors on something they're wanting £200

 

its just showing either a lack of research or a lack of care

 

I had been wondering about getting either this or the IC Executive pair but they've both got errors

[DaveClass47]

cool or not, I dont expect basic livery errors on something they're wanting £200

 

its just showing either a lack of research or a lack of care

 

I had been wondering about getting either this or the IC Executive pair but they've both got errors

I agree, its makes me roll my eyes in disbelief every time a manufacturer something up.

 

It is annoying that there are errors, but surely not enough to stop you buying them?   The East Coast one has a style of lettering that wasn't common, but that's what makes it stand out from the usual Western Region ones that Hornby have trotted out for the last 35 years!   If the exhaust cowling should not have been there at the same time as the black in-filled lettering then the cowling can be removed, its just clipped on.   That's probably the most obvious visual error.

 

As for the Executive one...sure the silver lettering is wrong and the plated over guards window is inaccurate, but does this detract from the over all livery?, which until now has not adorned the model since the mid 1980's! (when it was wrong then as well by the way!) lol.

 

Knowing Hornby's rotation of liveries, the Exec probably won't be re-released for 7-8 years (based on the last time the Swallow, GNER and Virgin livery made an appearance!).   I can live with the silver lettering, but others cant.   Hornby will get it right next time, but when will than be....2023 on-wards?  That's a long time to wait just for white lettering.

 

I dont think its their lack of research, I just think its lack of communication with the Chinese factory, as the hand painted examples that appeared in their 2014 catalogue had white lettering!   Hornby need to buck up their ideas in this respect.

 

Hornby aint perfect, Bachmann or Heljan certainly ain't either.   But it hasn't stopped me buying these power cars.   I suppose it boils down to how much you want an HST (or a few of them) on your layout/display?

[Geoff Endacott]

The East Coast one has a style of lettering that wasn't common...

 

That's one way of putting it.

 

Geoff Endacott

[DaveClass47]

Can we just clarify...has anyone been 'forced' (against their will) to purchase the latest Hornby HST with black in fill lettering? lol

[shunny]

I have ordered the Executive HST as I had already bought the coaches which also have issues such as buffet car roof vents but I think I will get the correct white transfers to apply to the model it is just at the price they are you expect to not have to spend more money to make them correct but I cannot deny I really like the models. 

I think there will always be livery errors on models and it is easier now with forums like this to find out some that in the past we might not have noticed, what I have found is the different ways that companies deal with these. I remember Heljan produced replacement bodies for 47361 when it was produced in RFD with a black roof instead of a grey one and Bachmann redid the bodies on the plain blue EPB when they put the wrong car numbers on each body I know this is not always the case with all Bachmann and Heljan errors. Hornby have been very lacking in even admitting when something is wrong far less taking action, I for one am glad I never paid over £1000 for the great gathering to get all the LNER tenders with the wrong height letters. The one issue we all have with the current manufacturing system is we have to pre-order often to guarantee we get the models we want in case thy sell out and then we have to hope they are what we expect when they arrive!

[Geoff Endacott]

In other industries when goods are less than perfect the items are sold as "seconds" at a significantly reduced price. Perhaps the same philosophy should apply to model railway manufacturers.

 

Geoff Endacott