RBAGE Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 6 Well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 As an illustration to address the OP's question I've been sent a list of what's arrived/arriving since March and the new catalogue: March Bachmann BRANCHLINE OO SCALE Cat. No Description Era DCC RRP 30-525 The Shakespeare Express Train Pack. Includes GWR Hall class 4-6-0 locomotive No. 4695 Rood Ashton Hall in Great Western lined Green livery, BR MK1 BSK coach No. W35470 in Chocolate & Cream livery and two BR MK1 Pullman Umber & Cream coaches comprising a Second Kitchen (SK) and a Second Parlour (SP). Also includes an exclusive ‘EFE’ Bristol VR in Guide Friday ‘The Stratford Tour’ livery vehicle registration number VDV143S 9 8PIN £229.95 31-780 Modified Hall Class 4-6-0 No. 6988 ‘Swithland Hall’ in BR green with late crest. 83D Shed code plate 5 8PIN £124.95 31-781 Modified Hall Class 4-6-0 No. 7903 ‘Foremarke Hall’ in BR Black with early emblem. 81A shed code plate 4 8PIN £124.95 31-783 Modified Hall Class 4-6-0 No. 7904 ‘Fountains Hall’ in BR Black with early emblem (weathered). 81A shed code 4 8PIN £134.95 35-075 E4 Class 0-6-2T No. 579 in LB&SCR livery 2 6PIN £109.95 37-506 22 Ton Ore Hopper Wagon in B.I.S.C. livery No. 776 3 - £13.95 37-507 22 Ton Ore Hopper Wagon in BR early bauxite No. B437221 4/5 - £13.95 37-508 22 Ton Ore Hopper Wagon in BR grey (weathered) livery No. B435493 4/5 - £14.95 38-115 TEA bogie tank wagon in Fina (weathered) livery No. FINA 85519 8 - £42.95 38-116 TEA bogie tank wagon in JET Aviation Fuel livery No. BPO 80562 8 - £41.95 38-600 21 Ton Grain Hopper in BR Grey livery No. B885053 NEW TOOLING 4/5 - £22.95 38-601 21 Ton Grain Hopper in BR Grey (TOPS) livery No. B885467 NEW TOOLING 6/7 - £22.95 38-602 21 Ton Grain Hopper in BR Bauxite (Late) livery No. B885645 NEW TOOLING 5 - £22.95 May Cat. No Description Era DCC RRP 31-980 BR Standard 3MT 2-6-2T No. 82020 in BR weathered livery with late crest. No Shed code 5 8PIN £129.95 31-981 BR Standard 3MT 2-6-2T No. 82021 in BR lined black livery. 2B Shed code 4 8PIN £119.95 32-084 56xx Class 0-6-2T No. 6677 in GWR green livery with G W R lettering 3 8PIN £89.95 32-085 56xx Class 0-6-2T No. 6639 in BR black livery with early emblem. 88G Shed code 4 8PIN £89.95 34-632 BR Mark 1 Suburban Second Brake in BR blue livery (weathered) No. E43152 6/7 - £29.95 34-633 BR Mark 1 Suburban Second Brake in BR blue livery (weathered) No. E34190 6/7 - £29.95 34-677 BR Mark 1 Suburban Second Open in BR blue livery (weathered) No. E46094 6/7 - £29.95 34-678 BR Mark 1 Suburban Second Open in BR blue livery (weathered) No. E46116 6/7 - £29.95 38-034 HHA Hopper Wagon in Colas (weathered) livery No. 370280 9 - £42.95 39-421 TPO Sorting Van with nets in Royal Mail Red livery No. W80305 NEW TOOLING VARIANT 5 - £54.95 39-426 TPO Sorting Van with nets in BR blue & grey livery No. W80304 NEW TOOLING VARIANT 6/7 - £54.95 June Bachmann BRANCHLINE OO SCALE Cat. No Description Era DCC RRP 32-034A Class 20 No. 20141 in BR green livery with full yellow end (weathered) 7 21PIN £114.95 32-038DS Class 20 No. 20124 in BR blue with indicator lists (weathered) DCC SOUND 7 DCC SOUND £229.95 32-044 Class 20 No. D8028 in BR green livery with indicator discs 5 21PIN £109.95 32-045 Class 20 No. 20118 ‘Saltburn By The Sea’ in BR Railfreight livery with red stripe 8 21PIN £109.95 32-066 Class 43 Warship diesel No. D835 ‘Pegasus’ in BR green with yellow panel NEW TOOLING 5 21PIN £139.95 32-067 Class 43 Warship diesel No. 842 ‘Royal Oak’ in BR blue livery NEW TOOLING 6/7 21PIN £139.95 32-785DS Class 37/0 No. 37245 in BR Dutch grey/yellow (weathered) livery DCC SOUND 8 DCC SOUND £239.95 July Bachmann BRANCHLINE OO SCALE Cat. No Description Era DCC RRP 31-168 L&Y 2-4-2T Radial Tank No. 10713in LMS Crimson livery 3 6PIN £105.95 31-169 L&Y 2-4-2T Radial Tank No 50795 in BR black with early emblem 5 6PIN £29.95 32-065 Class 43 (Warship) No. 865 ‘Zealous’ in BR maroon livery with yellow panel. NEW TOOLING 5 21PIN £139.95 32-532 Class 55 Deltic No. 55007 ‘Pinza’ in BR blue livery (weathered) 7 21PIN £132.95 32-762DS Class 57/3 No. 57312 ‘The Hood’ in Virgin Trains (weathered) livery DCC SOUND 9 21PIN £239.95 32-763 Class 57/3 No. 57309 ‘Pride of Crewe’ in DRS blue Compass livery 9 21PIN £129.95 32-784 Class 37/0 No. 37242 in Mainline blue livery (weathered) 8 21PIN £124.95 32-786 Class 37/0 No. 37174 in EWS (weathered) livery with Domino headcode 9 21PIN £124.95 37-253B 16T mineral wagon in BR grey livery No. B25304 4/5 - £14.95 37-378 16T mineral wagon in BR grey livery No. B569082 4/5 - £12.95 37-952 Conflat A wagon in BR bauxite No. B707245 with BD Container in Speedfreight grey and yellow livery No. BD 475718 5 - £15.95 37-983 Twin pack of Conflat A wagons in BR bauxite livery No’s B707320 + B708012 4/5 - £25.95 38-145 VDA Sliding Door box van in BR bauxite (weathered) livery No. 200696 7/8 - £24.95 38-146 VDA Sliding Door box van in BR grey and yellow (weathered) livery No. ADC200654 8 - £24.95 Add in the Farish arrivals: March GRAHAM FARISH N SCALE Cat. No Description Era DCC RRP 370-300 The Landship Train Pack. Includes 4F Class 0-6-0 in Midland Railway black livery No. 3848, 3 x War Department Bogie Bolster wagons (No’s. 5320, 5322, 5323) and three World War 1 tanks covered with tarpaulin. 2 6PIN £104.95 370-400 Longmoor Military Railway Train Pack. Includes WD Austerity class 2-8-0 locomotive No. 400 Sir Guy WIlliams in LMR Blue and red livery and three BR MK1 Suburban Brake coaches in LMR Blue livery, Nos. ARMY 3031, ARMY 3032 & ARMY 3034. 5/6 6PIN £139.95 April GRAHAM FARISH N SCALE Cat. No Description Era DCC RRP 372-079 B1 Class 4-6-0 No. 1040 ‘Roedeer’ in LNER lined black. 3 6PIN £129.95 372-243 Class 47/7 No. 47701 ‘Saint Andrew’ in BR blue livery. NEW TOOLING 7 6PIN £119.95 372-244 Class 47/7 No. 47711 ‘Greyfriars Bobby’ in BR blue large logo livery. NEW TOOLING 7/8 6PIN £119.95 372-245 Class 47/7 No. 47710 ‘Sir Walter Scott’ in ScotRail livery. NEW TOOLING 8 6PIN £119.95 372-246 Class 47/7 No. 47715 ‘Haymarket’ in Network SouthEast livery. NEW TOOLING 8 6PIN £119.95 372-310 Merchant Navy Class 4-6-2 No. 35024 ‘East Asiatic Company’ in BR Express blue livery with early emblem. No shed code. NEW TOOLING 4 6PIN £159.95 372-311 Merchant Navy Class 4-6-2 No. 35023 ‘Holland-Afrika Line’ in BR green livery with early emblem with 72A shed code. NEW TOOLING 4 6PIN £159.95 372-312 Merchant Navy Class 4-6-2 No.35028 ‘Clan Line’ in BR green livery with late crest. 73A shed code. NEW TOOLING 5 6PIN £159.95 372-313 Merchant Navy Class 4-6-2 No. 35021 ‘New Zealand Line’ in BR malachite green with BRITISH RAILWAYS lettering. No shed code. NEW TOOLING 4 6PIN £159.95 372-653 BR Standard Class 4MT No. 76079 in BR lined black livery with early emblem. 8G shed code 4 6PIN £129.95 372-654 BR Standard Class 4MT No.76063 in BR lined black with late crest. 71A shed code 5 6PIN £129.95 May GRAHAM FARISH N SCALE Cat. No Description Era DCC RRP 371-825B Class 47/0 No. D1572 in BR two tone green livery with small yellow warning panel 5 6PIN £119.95 371-828B Class 47/0 No. 47096 in BR blue livery 7/8 6PIN £119.95 372-930 N Class 2-6-0 No. 868 in SOUTHERN Railway green livery. NEW TOOLING 3 6PIN £124.95 372-931 N Class 2-6-0 No. 31844 in BR black livery with early emblem. NEW TOOLING 4 6PIN £124.95 372-933 N Class 2-6-0 No. 810 in SE&CR grey livery. NEW TOOLING 2 6PIN £124.95 June GRAHAM FARISH N SCALE Cat. No Description Era DCC RRP 371-033 Class 20 No. D8011 in BR green with small yellow panel (weathered) 5 6PIN £114.95 372-210A 3F ‘Jinty’ 0-6-0T No. 7309 in LMS black. 8A shed code 3 6PIN £89.95 372-211A 3F ‘Jinty’ 0-6-0T No. 47314 in BR black with early emblem. 13B shed code 4 6PIN £89.95 372-212A 3F ‘Jinty’ 0-6-0T No. 47500 in BR black with late crest. 1E shed code 5 6PIN £89.95 374-134 BR Mark 1 GUV in BR blue ‘Motorail’ livery No. E93955 7 - £28.95 374-290C BR Mark 1 Suburban (SO) in BR crimson livery No. E46037 4 - £21.95 374-292 BR Mark 1 Suburban (SO) in BR blue (weathered) livery No. E46094 6/7 - £23.50 374-312B BR Mark 1 Suburban Brake End in BR crimson livery No. E43130 4 - £21.95 374-313 BR Mark 1 Suburban Brake End in BR blue (weathered) livery No. E43152 6/7 - £23.50 374-630 Bogie B Luggage Van in Southern green livery No. 395 NEW TOOLING 3 - £25.95 374-631 Bogie B Luggage Van in BR (SR) green livery No. S204S NEW TOOLING 5 - £25.95 374-632 Bogie B Luggage Van in BR blue livery No. S399 NEW TOOLING 6/7 - £25.95 377-336A Triple Pack with BR crimson BD container (weathered) . Wagons B707707 + B705490 + B70909 with containers BD488469 + BD49109B + BD46233B 6/7 - £39.95 377-337 Triple Pack conflat wagons with BR bauxite containers B704762 + B704832 + B705283 with containers A3991B + A3552B + A3412B 6/7 - £39.95 So that's quite a bit of incoming; some which has arrived may have all been distributed to retailers, some of the latest may yet to be distributed to individual retailers but it shows quite a bit of activity in four months. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Hello Mike I think everyone understands that- no retailer wants to hold a large stock of items unless they are sure of selling them in a reasonable time scale- and of course that goes for the distributors too. It is a careful balancing act between making sure you don't have excess stock which harms your cashflow, and not running out, which harms your profitability. From a purely commercial point of view, I am not sure that either the blue team or the red team have got that balance right (most especially with the blue team). Have we not seen examples where X is in over-supply and Y is absent? I think more thought is required. After all, it is in BOTH ours AND their interests that this balance is right; if we "demanded" huge stocks, it could damage their business model just as easily. No doubt the case - but that doesn't necessarily mean that retailers don't hold stocks of course. It is one of the problems of modern business and really boils down to who is going to carry the financial cost of holding stock. Hornby have made very clear their intention that they won't; Bachmann have said nothing on this but they do have regular reduced price clearouts (to the trade) of surplus/slow moving items so in that case the stock has clearly moved to the retailers. As for any other items it is - as ever - very much down to the way retailers operate their business. If they wish/can afford to hold stocks then they will and they will then pick up business when others have sold out because they weren't prepared to hold stocks. Sometimes of course stocks 'just happen' because sales don't materialised but I'm sure that some retailers still deliberately hold stock because they want to. As for the list kindly supplied by Commandant York, it does show that Bachmann is still investing, which is clearly a good thing. However, to pick an item at random there's a release of a 37/0 (I didn't read the livery). To put into contrast, some years back, you could walk into any model shop and pick between a 37/0, 37/4, 47/3.... and so on. To contrast, I think you would have to go searching to find a brand new 37/4 at the moment, regardless of livery. Maybe that's just 'the way things are' and the range of the 1990's together with the quality of the 21st Century is incompatible. It's been 20 odd years since I dabbled with this and things have changed. Edited July 30, 2015 by Derekstuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 As for the list kindly supplied by Commandant York, it does show that Bachmann is still investing, which is clearly a good thing. However, to pick an item at random there's a release of a 37/0 (I didn't read the livery). To put into contrast, some years back, you could walk into any model shop and pick between a 37/0, 37/4, 47/3.... and so on. To contrast, I think you would have to go searching to find a brand new 37/4 at the moment, regardless of livery. It may be easier later in the year Derek. New batch of 37/4s scheduled along with 37/7s due November - December Nov/Dec 32-370 Class 37/4 37405 DRS Compass £ 119.95 Nov/Dec 32-389 Class 37/4 37421 Colas £ 119.95 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 30, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 30, 2015 A bit self contradictory there Derek. As you say we can't demand huge stocks (either at 'manufacturer' or retailer) but then you're concerned there are no 37/4s 'in the shops' at present. I don't know when they appeared but Bachmann haven''t listed 37/4s in their catalogue since the 2013 edition apart from those listed in new liveries for this year. So by implication you're looking for someone in the chain to still have items available from getting on for 2 years ago (probably less in reality due to delivery delays and then assuming everything listed in that catalogue actually appeared during the time of major production problems). It would be rather like me wandering round my 'local' model shops expecting them to still have in stock the South Wales variant of Class 37 which appeared several years ago. That sort of stockholding in shops and UK warehouse has I think long vanished - mainly a consequence of what modellers (or more appositely what r-t-r buyers) want where novelty and 'something different' every year is what the market has become. Fortunately Bachmann do seem to keep various models coming in and out of their catalogue although diesels seem to be changed far more frequently than steam outline models - again presumably to suit what the market wants with a stream of livery variations and detail variation where such change can be readily and economically coped with at manufacture. This year the new Class 43 will appear - 3 different liveries so I've made sure that I have pre-ordered the one that I want for my modelling era and to be honest, suspecting it will sell like hot cakes, I would be very surprised if there are many left on the shelves within a couple of months of it reaching the shops. So will Bachmann re-run it? Well it would be silly for them to do so with the same running numbers because that wouldn't help 'second round' sales so they have to go back into the artwork stage to produce variants (even just for running numbers) and that means time will pass before the next version appears - however well it has sold. That's life I'm afraid and as long as folk keep looking for changes like that, rather than renumbering themselves, that sort of thing will continue. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I think we all have to remember that the days of model shops filled with stock are long gone. Railway modelling whilst still popular is not as popular as it was in the 60/70/80s. Shops cannot afford to hold on to stock in the hope it will sell and manufacturers cannot afford to churn out trains for which there is no immediate buyer. Looking at the patrons of the N gauge society at it's AGM in Wales this year and listening to Graham Hubbard made me realise it's all downhill from the heyday of the 60s. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted July 30, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 30, 2015 Derekstuart I think it is the way things are, but I also think that it is a lot more complex than 21st century detail versus late 20th century availability. The world has changed so much in those 20 or so years. 20 years ago the prices were around 1/5th of todays. Inflation has at most pushed up general prices by perhaps a factor of 2.5. Therefore the traders risk today is doubled. (In part at least this is due to the improvements in quality.) Then add on the squeeze of traders' margins and we see the traders' risk has increased considerably. It will make him much less likely to over-order a model in the hope it will sell. Twenty years ago there was no internet (or hardly at least). Customers went to their local model shop and maybe pre-ordered a model (and probably paid a deposit for the privilege). Most would wait until the model arrived and then go a buy the model from said shop, or maybe by mail order when advertised in the mags. If a shop had 5 pre-orders in 1995, they could probably afford to order 20 plus models with reasonable certainty that they would sell (eventually). Today if a shop has 5 pre-orders it probably orders at most 10. There is no charge to the customer until the model is dispatched. Despite ordering fewer models, the traders' cash flow is potentially squeezed compared with 20 years ago - no pre-order deposits plus more expensive models sat on the shelf if they do not sell immediately. Production slot issues in China have meant that manufacturers have had to be cautious in using these slots and will want to be sure that what they produce is sold. Their runs are now tailored to the pre-orders they get from the trade. In the past they would produce more in the knowledge that they would probably sell eventually, but also knowing that the more they sold the less the overheads costs per model would be. The internet, plus a "I want it and I want it now attitude" has led to a situation where pre-ordering has become the norm. This has also been driven by shortages in supply and together we have a vicious circle to the point where some are suggesting that in the future models will only be available by pre-order. In other words the only stock you will ever see on a shop shelf is that that the trader has personally put there as a risk purchase in the knowledge that the vast majority of customers have pre-ordered. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Parker Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 As for the list kindly supplied by Commandant York, it does show that Bachmann is still investing, which is clearly a good thing. However, to pick an item at random there's a release of a 37/0 (I didn't read the livery). To put into contrast, some years back, you could walk into any model shop and pick between a 37/0, 37/4, 47/3.... and so on. To contrast, I think you would have to go searching to find a brand new 37/4 at the moment, regardless of livery. Maybe that's just 'the way things are' and the range of the 1990's together with the quality of the 21st Century is incompatible. It's been 20 odd years since I dabbled with this and things have changed. Part of the problem is the variety of models on sale. Once upon a time you went to the local model shop and bought a Class 37. You didn't chose between a 37/0, 37/4 etc, you bought a Class 37 because there was only a Hornby model available. With limited numbers of locos on offer and very little, if any, mail order, shops held a reasonable percentage of the models on the market. Now we have lots of niche models which are run occasionally and supplied to shops. You don't buy a 37/0 because you want a 37/1 so if your local shop doesn't have the right variant, they don't get your cash. Of course modellers haven't helped this by looking at the price and deamnding a whacking discount on everything making town centre shops all but unviable. Personally, I'm lucky in that my local shop (Classic Train & Motor Bus in Leamington Spa) does hold good stocks of OO and N. (Smug face) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) The internet, plus a "I want it and I want it now attitude" has led to a situation where pre-ordering has become the norm. This has also been driven by shortages in supply and together we have a vicious circle to the point where some are suggesting that in the future models will only be available by pre-order. Andy, I agreed with virtually everything you said, excepting the statement that an "I want it now attitude" has led to pre-ordering. Arguably pre-ordering is all about delayed gratification. When you pre-order a newly tooled item, it will take months to years before the said item will arrive. Pre-ordering is about trust and patience that in good time the item will arrive and will be of an acceptable quality. The tenor of this thread results from an "I want it now attitude" but that's unrelated to pre-ordering per se. Bachmann Branch-Line set the benchmark in communicating the progress of their models through the design and production flow with their quarterly Collectors' Club "Works Report" articles. Since Collectors' Club members post here, that information is readily available here on RMweb. Hornby is catching up. They are doing it differently and in a less structured way than Bachmann's quarterly updates but are doing it nonetheless. New market entrants like DJModels and Oxford Rail have their own methods of updating consumers on progress. I understand the frustration of those who perceive the catalogue currency period of 12-18 months to be some kind of implied contract for the availability of models. Empirically it isn't in many cases. And that is often where people are particularly excited about a new item. There are lots of examples in the last, let's say about eight years, where models take as long as three-to-four years to come to fruition. So long as the supplier continues to communicate status (as Bachmann does) I am content to wait and, when I pre-order I do so with the full expectation that I certainly won't be getting it 'now'. Edited July 30, 2015 by Ozexpatriate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Ahhhhhh remember the good old days, when you could nip into the local model railway shop and they had everything in the Triang Hornby catalogue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted July 30, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 30, 2015 Oxexpatriate I think we do fundamentally agree. Clearly you cannot have a Bachmann xyz when it does not exist, and pre-ordering might indeed be part of delayed gratification, but once it becomes available everyone expects theirs to be delivered next day (well maybe not you and I because of postage delays). Look what happens when someone posts: I got my xyz from supplier a - followed by description of all the good and bad points. This will be immediately followed by posts along the lines of: I have had mine on order from supplier b/c/d etc and they don't even show it in stock yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40F Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Patience is a virtue. As stated before not all items in catalogue may be made sometimes items are announced to judge reaction and possible orders. Hence no or slow orders project held back popular model production advanced. Common sense when you think about it. Other manufacturers are just as bad yet to produce anything no names no pack drill Edited July 30, 2015 by 40F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) I think we do fundamentally agree. Yes. That there are people who clearly have an "I want it now attitude", we do fundamentally agree also. I wasn't so much trying to argue with all the good points you made, as separate that notion from the act of pre-ordering. And there are certainly people who pre-order who become very impatient when they learn that stock has arrived somewhere. Very elastic, unexplained delays can and do happen. I pre-ordered a Hornby Castle from a reputable supplier. Well* after it first arrived as in-stock on the Hornby website, and well* after some people had walked into shops and bought one, my order was ultimately filled. * My order was filled in a later shipment than the original one. The time frame was > 2 months (not counting postage times which of course made feel it longer for me). Presumably the first production run/shipment did not fill the total set of orders. I'd say some of the impatience is connected to the idea that people pre-order because they don't want to miss out. When others' orders are filled and they haven't seen their item, some get nervous. There might be a clerical error. There might be preferential stock shipments from the manufacturer. Recent experiences with Hornby's Exeter or the Great Gathering A4s reinforce distrust that pre-orders will be reliably filled. As much as I don't like pop-culture acronyms from social media (like YOLO), there is a good one for this behavior. It is "FOMO" or "fear of missing out". While I might not like to admit it, if I'm honest with myself, it is a factor for me. This certainly drives pre-ordering, but it's separate from "I want it now". In concert those two are at the root of the behavior you describe. Edited July 31, 2015 by Ozexpatriate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 31, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 31, 2015 Yes. That there are people who clearly have an "I want it now attitude", we do fundamentally agree also. I wasn't so much trying to argue with all the good points you made, as separate that notion from the act of pre-ordering. And there are certainly people who pre-order who become very impatient when they learn that stock has arrived somewhere. Very elastic, unexplained delays can and do happen. I pre-ordered a Hornby Castle from a reputable supplier. Well* after it first arrived as in-stock on the Hornby website, and well* after some people had walked into shops and bought one, my order was ultimately filled. * My order was filled in a later shipment than the original one. The time frame was > 2 months (not counting postage times which of course made feel it longer for me). Presumably the first production run/shipment did not fill the total set of orders. I'd say some of the impatience is connected to the idea that people pre-order because they don't want to miss out. When others' orders are filled and they haven't seen their item, some get nervous. There might be a clerical error. There might be preferential stock shipments from the manufacturer. Recent experiences with Hornby's Exeter or the Great Gathering A4s reinforce distrust that pre-orders will be reliably filled. As much as I don't like pop-culture acronyms from social media (like YOLO), there is a good one for this behavior. It is "FOMO" or "fear of missing out". While I might not like to admit it, if I'm honest with myself, it is a factor for me. This certainly drives pre-ordering, but it's separate from "I want it now". In concert those two are at the root of the behavior you describe. Some good points there and very true I believe. However I think - from my experience - there has been in recent years a stark difference between Bachmann and the red box contingent. Every Bachmann item I have pre-ordered through either of my 'local' model shops has been in their hands at or very near to the same time that folk are seeing they've been advised that the item is in the retailer they user, and that includes those where seemingly relatively limited numbers were produced such as the original SE&CR liveried C. My experience suggest that Bachmann look after their retailers on a very even basis and while sometimes there might be an early batch air-freighted in (?) the general distribution of the main batch sends to retailers what they, and we, have ordered. This, regrettably - and again in my direct experience - is in stark contrast with Hornby. I fully realise that Hornby have had production problems (so have Bachmann) but my experience with the GW 8-coupled tanks was that while I had to wait an extra 18 months for one of my pre-ordered engines (that was the worst delay, of several) some retailers, including one working from his front room, had the same engine on general sale 18 months earlier. I know my retailer ordered in good time, and that he is one who has always paid promptly, yet his supplies were 'rationed' while seemingly those going to a trader of the type Hornby claim not to supply to were not. I'm not worried if someone else has one before I have one - I can be patient. But it is very irritating to see that pre-orders from an established retailer were not being met before orders for general sale by someone who shouldn't even have been getting the models - that is bad business practice. OK when things are working well but not good for reputation when they aren't but that of course is not for this thread other than to draw attention to the difference between the 'big two'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 This all falls into sales strategy, the manufacturers want you to behave how you do. By preordering, the sales are in the pipeline. In the old model they made it, and waited for the sale. Now they can predict the revenue before the product is made. By seeing demand is there, they can "tweak" the prices a little (upwards). If it isn't, they can avoid making it at all. You make statements as though they are facts when it should be made clear they're an opinion. There are some daft enough to then repeat such things to suit their conspiracy agendas. An example is that purchase orders have been raised or are raised over the next few months with the factory for items to be produced during next year that will be in next year's catalogue. If pre-orders from retailers exceed the production quantity then the manufacturing run is increased. Projects aren't binned for lack of pre-orders, only if there are tooling issues, lack of availability of 3rd party components or other major production issues. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Of course you are right. If there are no pre-orders, or not enough to be viable and demand isn't there, but the slot is booked. They will make several thousand just in case and write off any losses with glee. Who's ever going to do that ? Yes I am thank you; I don't just make things up when I post such comments as those which address your point. If it were an opinion or speculation I would say so; but I didn't, so it isn't. It is from an appropriate source. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted August 1, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 1, 2015 I think Bachmann support the retail sector admirably. I may be wrong but I suspect most model shops need some sales from big ticket items and it will be big ticket items that bring in many customers yet for many modellers it is small stuff that makes model shops so valuable (paints, adhesives, scenics, tools, plasticard etc etc). Whilst Bachmann are not perfect (but neither is any other model company) they do seem to make a genuine effort to support their retailers and show an even handed approach to all their dealers which I think is very commendable. And whilst Bachmann obviously have to walk the tight rope between how much to order from their factory and what they expect demand to be I like the fact that they have never moved towards the production to pre-order model and have never given any indication of considering such a move. They have had a lot of issues with production and their prices rises have clearly upset many but I do think Bachmann are a good producer and have done an awful lot for the hobby (and for balance, I think the same of Hornby and other producers). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 I think the modern way of doing things is great for the manufacturer but dire for the paying customer. Years ago, I used to buy stuff from the long lamented motor books in Oxford. They always had a ton of Lima locos ( that dates it ) and if I couldn't afford or didn't know if I'd need it yet, I could always go back months later with a fighting chance of still getting the product. Now with batch production that thought process has to speed up - if I think I may need something I need to get it like now. I could really do with stashing away some HST power cars but at almost £200 I can't stockpile for the future layouts. I've got a blue 4CEP I brought on a whim, but reluctant to move on as I may need it in the future. The only way stuff hangs around is if it isn't popular - like some of the recent class 47s then it gets in the hattons bargain pile. This isn't a criticsm of Bachmann, merely an observation , as it must be more efficient for them. And I'm waiting for my mainline 37 to come on the Shanghai express ......but I can wait. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 I think the modern way of doing things is great for the manufacturer but dire for the paying customer. Years ago, I used to buy stuff from the long lamented motor books in Oxford. They always had a ton of Lima locos ( that dates it ) and if I couldn't afford or didn't know if I'd need it yet, I could always go back months later with a fighting chance of still getting the product. Now with batch production that thought process has to speed up - if I think I may need something I need to get it like now. I could really do with stashing away some HST power cars but at almost £200 I can't stockpile for the future layouts. I've got a blue 4CEP I brought on a whim, but reluctant to move on as I may need it in the future. The only way stuff hangs around is if it isn't popular - like some of the recent class 47s then it gets in the hattons bargain pile. This isn't a criticsm of Bachmann, merely an observation , as it must be more efficient for them. And I'm waiting for my mainline 37 to come on the Shanghai express ......but I can wait. On the other side of the coin, the range is far greater now. Sure items (unless Railroad I suppose) do not hang around long, nor are remade readily, but the chances of them doing a prototype you would fancy adding to your layout has increased dramatically. Each year I keep saying "this year I won't buy much" then boom, they go off and annouce something really interesting. After the GNR C1 and E4 was released, I must admit I do not have much else on pre order with them but other makes have stepped up ensuring quite a healthy release program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Vistisen Posted August 3, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 3, 2015 My problem is that in this age of preorders that take years to arrive is that it is all too easy for me to pre-order stuff for a total value that exceeds my budget if it all arrives at once. I have currently an item on pre order from Hattons that I ordered the 7th of February 2014 that still does not have a projected delivery date. I can see this autumn becoming too expensive, so what to do? The one item that should by rights be sacrificed (it’s the most expensive, and the one that least fits my modelled period and location) is also the one I paid a £50 deposit on. In the old days I saved up my pocket money and then went down to the shop to see what I could afford, Now it’s the other way round I ‘buy’ it straight away and then hope that the money is there when it arrives at some point in time that is unknown to me. That makes it hard to budget accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted August 4, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 4, 2015 But surely if you pre-ordered 18 months ago, you have had 18 months to put a little aside each month to pay for the item. Without wishing to sound unkind, it does sound as if you have ordered beyond your financial means. That is hardly the fault of the manufacturer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted August 4, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) My problem is that in this age of preorders that take years to arrive is that it is all too easy for me to pre-order stuff for a total value that exceeds my budget if it all arrives at once. I have currently an item on pre order from Hattons that I ordered the 7th of February 2014 that still does not have a projected delivery date. I can see this autumn becoming too expensive, so what to do? The one item that should by rights be sacrificed (it’s the most expensive, and the one that least fits my modelled period and location) is also the one I paid a £50 deposit on. In the old days I saved up my pocket money and then went down to the shop to see what I could afford, Now it’s the other way round I ‘buy’ it straight away and then hope that the money is there when it arrives at some point in time that is unknown to me. That makes it hard to budget accordingly. But surely, if something is going to take years to arrive, one has plenty of time to save up for it. My chosen period/location (Southern Region, Western section and Somerset & Dorset line, c1960) means my new locomotive purchases (from any source) have only averaged two a year over the past four or five years. My handful of Bachmann S&D purchases represent a sizeable proportion of my total expenditure on locomotives and I've been very disciplined at resisting attractive "wide-of-scheme" releases, the Dukedog, L&Y tank and 1F aside! Hornby didn't get much of a look in during this period but swings swing and roundabouts turn (and how!) Having continued to budget for locos that I wasn't buying, my interests are once again being catered for and I have/will have ample funds to cover 2x 700, 2x S15, 1x WC, 3x 0415, 2x O2 and 1x MN this year and next. Bachmann's share of this? 1x 64xx, 1x Wickham trolley, an Ivatt 2-6-2T and a Brighton Atlantic, though I think the Bluebell are likely to finish theirs before Bachmann's emerges!. John Edited August 4, 2015 by Dunsignalling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 ... the swings have swung and the roundabouts have turned (and how!) ... This has been the surprise for me. Bachmann have had the lion's share of my RTR budget the past 14 years, with a stream of good 'staple fare'; the everyday subjects that could be seen in the final decade of BR steam operations in my area of interest. The well's 'gone dry', just some grain hoppers this year, and nothing of interest from their current list of announcements either. (The C1 counts as a 'special' in my reckoning, but even included it doesn't change things.) Hornby are going to sweep the board in range of items purchased and value of sales in 2015 and 2016, and Heljan are going to beat Bachmann too if the O2 appears before year end. Didn't see this coming a couple of years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 31-169 L&Y 2-4-2T Radial Tank No 50795 in BR black with early emblem 5 6PIN £29.95 Now that would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike at C&M Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 And for your further delight and delectation, we have been advised that the following items are now at Barwell:Branchline32-045 Class 20 “Saltburn-By-The-Sea” BR Railfreight Red Stripe32-065 Class 43 Warship “Zealous” BR Maroon Yellow Panel32-066 Class 43 Warship “Pegasus” BR Green Yellow Panel32-067 Class 43 Warship “Royal Oak” BR BlueGraham Farish374-134 BR Mk1 GUV General Utility Van Blue Motorail374-290C BR Mk1 57ft Suburban Second Open Crimson374-292 BR Mk1 57ft Suburban Second Open Blue “weathered”374-312B BR Mk1 57ft Suburban Brake End Crimson374-313 BR Mk1 57ft Suburban Brake End Blue “weathered”374-630 SR 50’ Bogie B Luggage Van Southern Green374-631 SR 50’ Bogie B Luggage Van BR (SR) Green374-632 SR 50’ Bogie B Luggage Van BR Blue 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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