Collett 'Bow Ended' Standard 57' Corridor Stock Coaches for 2016

[Ian Hargrave]

That one did come off at Banbury as the train continued down the single line cross country route to Cheltenham usually with a GWR mogul and later a Manor class. again stock alternated with GWR.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Hang on a minute though.If the train ran via Sheffield Victoria,it would have necessitated a reversal and loco change there,wouldn't it ?

What was its actual route....does anyone know ?.The D9 in the image would presumably have been a Darnall allocated engine,

 

Banks and Carter on page 110 have a lovely shot of D9 1018 taken in 1924 at Chaloner's Whin and in GC livery on the 6:25 pm York-Swindon with an Aberdeen-Penzance BCK ( NBR ? ) behind the tender. It would be attached to the 10:00 Paddington-Penzance at Swindon.

 

GCR 4-4-0's did handle mainline expresses.'Directors' worked Marylebone-Manchester services into LNER days.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Ian Hargrave

[Headstock]

That one did come off at Banbury as the train continued down the single line cross country route to Cheltenham usually with a GWR mogul and later a Manor class. again stock alternated with GWR.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

Hi coach bogie, yes I agree regarding Banbury. More to the point, as the photo of the D9 should indicate, they were quite capable of operating the services. They didn't just linger in the back of sheds awaiting a passing Atlantic.

 

A far as who was paying the bills, it didn't make a lot of difference to how the railway was operated on the ground, the idea that after nationalization 'anything goes', is just not true. When I spoke to a number of engine men who drove over the route, one of my big questions was, what changed after nationalization. Invariably the answers was, 'not a lot', a least until the late 1950's. The big changes occurred after the 'rival' LM region of British railways took control of the GC mainline services, and began diverting traffic to the nations road network.

[Ian Hargrave]

Hi coach bogie, yes I agree regarding Banbury. More to the point, as the photo of the D9 should indicate, they were quite capable of operating the services. They didn't just linger in the back of sheds awaiting a passing Atlantic.

 

A far as who was paying the bills, it didn't make a lot of difference to how the railway was operated on the ground, the idea that after nationalization 'anything goes', is just not true. When I spoke to a number of engine men who drove over the route, one of my big questions was, what changed after nationalization. Invariably the answers was, 'not a lot', a least until the late 1950's. The big changes occurred after the 'rival' LM region of British railways took control of the GC mainline services, and began diverting traffic to the nations road network.

 

But that still doesn't answer the question posed in my post 728. If there was a reversal at Sheffield,then it would certainly not have worked through all the way from York to the GWR,be it Banbury or Swindon.Another LNER/GC loco,then of course.

[Headstock]

Hang on a minute though.If the train ran via Sheffield Victoria,it would have necessitated a reversal and loco change there,wouldn't it ?

What was its actual route....does anyone know ?.The D9 in the image would presumably have been a Darnall allocated engine,

 

Banks and Carter on page 110 have a lovely shot of D9 1018 taken in 1924 at Chaloner's Whin and in GC livery on the 6:25 pm York-Swindon with an Aberdeen-Penzance BCK ( NBR ? ) behind the tender. It would be attached to the 10:00 Paddington-Penzance at Swindon.

 

GCR 4-4-0's did handle mainline expresses.'Directors' worked Marylebone-Manchester services into LNER days.

 

6015 (not 6105, typo see original post) was a Sheffield loco at the time. I agree with your observations. More a case of the train would change locos at Banbury rather then Oxford if required to do so. The point being tha D9 class locomotives were not unusual motive power on interregional trains as has been said. The Aberdeen Penzance carriage is of NE design.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Headstock

[Headstock]

Getting the thread back to GWR carriages, although not 57' bow enders, here is my attempt at an interregional express circa 1950. The location is upperton road bridge, Leicester, and the stock is the Yok- Swansea expresses, formed of Collette 'Sunshine stock'.

 

Photo courtesy of Derek Shore.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Headstock

[gwrrob]

Here's my take on the six coach K set.

 

[melmerby]

Does anyone have any photographic evidence as to where the Great <crest> Western branding was placed on the sides of D95s in Hawksworth livery?

I've had a good look through my books and D95s seem to be camera shy post WW2 until BR.

 

The nearest I could find was a D94 corridor side where the insignia is below the wide plain panel between the passenger and guard sections i.e. offset somewhat from the centre.

 

Keith

[melmerby]

Received the balance of my order for the 5 coaches in original chocolate & cream livery today.

Really good value considering the level of detail.

 

IMHO definitely better value than Bachmann's Autocoach!

 

Could do with an all first and some more thirds, maybe?

 

Keep up this quality level Hornby.

 

Keith

[sp1]

Received the balance of my order for the 5 coaches in original chocolate & cream livery today.

Really good value considering the level of detail.

 

IMHO definitely better value than Bachmann's Autocoach!

 

Could do with an all first and some more thirds, maybe?

 

Keep up this quality level Hornby.

 

Keith

I agree - got the balance of mine yesterday from Hereford Models (less than 24 hours for delivery). As a bonus, they have them at over £4 cheaper than anyone else I've found - seriously tempted to get some more: has anyone renumbered any of theirs yet?

[Coach bogie]

I wonder if Hornby will produce this livery option? Bound to be a huge seller

 

 

Mike Wiltshire

[rovex]

Could do with an all first and some more thirds, maybe?

 

Keep up this quality level Hornby.

 

Keith

I'll have to check, but I don't think there was an all first. No doubt someone on here will correct me if I'm wrong. Certainly a composite brake and dining car would be welcome.

[Coach bogie]

I've had a good look through my books and D95s seem to be camera shy post WW2 until BR.

 

The nearest I could find was a D94 corridor side where the insignia is below the wide plain panel between the passenger and guard sections i.e. offset somewhat from the centre.

 

Keith

Curious if there is a hard and fast rule myself. On a 3 compartment toplight BK3rd which is a similar layout to a 3 compartment D94, the crest is on the guards door on the compartment side.

 

 

Mike Wiltshire

[melmerby]

I agree - got the balance of mine yesterday from Hereford Models (less than 24 hours for delivery). As a bonus, they have them at over £4 cheaper than anyone else I've found - seriously tempted to get some more: has anyone renumbered any of theirs yet?

I don't know where you have been looking but £4 more than Hereford's price is list price!

 

I got mine from Derails

 

Keith

[melmerby]

I'll have to check, but I don't think there was an all first. No doubt someone on here will correct me if I'm wrong. Certainly a composite brake and dining car would be welcome.

Been looking in Harris.

Couldn't find any firsts.

It looks like they were generally formed into 6 and 8 coach rakes using the three diagrams which Hornby have produced.

 

Keith

 

Correction N.B. the 8 coach rakes were later diagrams C58 & D104!

Edited March 5, 2016 by melmerby

[melmerby]

A further delve into Harris produces the following total number to stock over 12 lots from 1925 - 29:

(Give or take one or two due to poor adding up by me)

All Third       C54   = 257

Brake Third  D95   = 76

Composite    E127 = 43

No firsts.

 

IMHO Hornby need to produce some more thirds and maybe an H33 diner. However there were only 4 of these diners,there were however some 70ft BE diners !

 

Keith

Edited March 5, 2016 by melmerby

[Coach bogie]

IMHO Hornby need to produce some more thirds and maybe an H33 diner. However there were only 4 of these diners,there were however some 70ft BE diners !

 

Keith

If they do produce the H33...again, it could be of greater sale potential if the later windows were used. There appears to be lots of unsold RailRoad level original window H33's on the shelves at the moment. All four were rebuilt between 1937 and 1940 with the mark 1 style windows. After 1952 there were only 3, so even more limited for the BR modeller as 9580 was converted to a buffet car, as it remains to this day as a preserved coach.

 

When the 1925 stock was originally built, there were enough 70ft and clerestory firsts on the books, and with class barriers breaking down after WW1, third class traffic was on the up and first in decline. 1925 also saw the last first class diner to be built for the GWR as part of the artic sets, all diners from this date being third or compos.

 

Personally, as several posts have suggested, the 10 of, go anywhere H38 appears suitable dining vehicle.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[melmerby]

If they do produce the H33...again, it could be of greater sale potential if the later windows were used.

 

Personally, as several posts have suggested, the 10 of, go anywhere H38 appears suitable dining vehicle.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Problem with later modded versions of H33 is that it rules out anyone who has purchased the 1927 livery versions! (like me)

 

Keith

[antrobuscp]

Problem with later modded versions of H33 is that it rules out anyone who has purchased the 1927 livery versions! (like me)

 

Keith

I can't remember and I don't have access to my reference books, but was the only difference the style of windows or also their positioning? If just the style, could this be dealt with by a different glazing insert, meaning both versions could be produced at relatively little additional cost?

 

Colin

 

Colin

[HowardGWR]

No one commented on my post #672 about GWR cream colour differences over the years (no comment was expected).  I also have an old brake third (now called mainline series) which is even more yellowed than the current R4681, R4682 (etc) shewn in post #672.  

 

Of the model rail paints available, who does the paint most like the RC in post #672 as I feel that is more like 1930s photos? In other words creamier.  Has anyone an opinion on a paint, not advertised as GWR cream, but they feel is closer to what they think it should be?   

Edited March 6, 2016 by HowardGWR

[br-nse-fan]

I wonder if Hornby will produce this livery option? Bound to be a huge seller

 

collett002.jpg

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

I would.. mostly because it's the only way I can justify buying one...  

 

I can't make out the details.. but what, where and when would such a thing have existed?  I'm assuming that this would have been late 60's... and long gone by the 80's..

Edited March 6, 2016 by br-nse-fan

[petethemole]

It was still about but condemned in '83: http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrdeptcoach/h30fd20a7#h2a7b4a75 with its friend http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrdeptcoach/h30fd20a7#h3825eeca .

 

Other departmental BE Colletts are included in the album.

[melmerby]

No one commented on my post #672 about GWR cream colour differences over the years (no comment was expected).  I also have an old brake third (now called mainline series) which is even more yellowed than the current R4681, R4682 (etc) shewn in post #672.  

 

Of the model rail paints available, who does the paint most like the RC in post #672 as I feel that is more like 1930s photos? In other words creamier.  Has anyone an opinion on a paint, not advertised as GWR cream, but they feel is closer to what they think it should be?   

Even with the GWR the "cream" varied over the years!

 

Keith

[melmerby]

The problem with all colours in history is that due to the way the brain processes colour images there is no way we can say what a particular colour actually was.

 

The definitive colour on a GWR coach is what came out of Swindon's paintshop on a specific day.

It would depend whether the vehicle was new or not, how much preparation was needed before any topcoat(s) were applied etc. and when in history it was painted as paints changed over the years.

 

It's like in BR days when I always remembered ex GWR locos in "Brunswick" green being somewhat brighter and richer in colour than similar sized ex LMS passenger locos.(e.g. Castle & Jubilee)

It could have been what was left of the original paint scheme underneath.

Green on GWR but black or red on the LMS locos.

 

Keith

[HowardGWR]

I'll take the subject over to GWR Rolling stock as this thread is supposed to be about the new Hornby bow-enders.   I think the colour of them is acceptable, but just a tinge too yellow.  As I wrote, one of the old batches was pure yellow.   I enclose a photo. 

 

[PUASHP]

C54 Third with the couplings changed, converted to EM gauge, a little more under frame detail added and weathering added. A lovely model which will form the middle coach in a rake of three.