Garethp8873 Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 I received my intitial four GWR Collett Bow Ended todays and now waiting on a GWR Collett Coach Corridor 3rd. I've also got the The Bristolian Train Pack on pre-order which should build up a good looking rake once they arrive Very impressed with them. Excellent quality and liveries and well worth the wait and withdrawal symptoms... A question though as I said I'm getting all five individually released Colletts plus the ones in the Bristolian pack. Would the eight coaches make a standard rake or would I need to pick up any extra of a particular one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted March 11, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) I received my intitial four GWR Collett Bow Ended todays and now waiting on a GWR Collett Coach Corridor 3rd. I've also got the The Bristolian Train Pack on pre-order which should build up a good looking rake once they arrive Very impressed with them. Excellent quality and liveries and well worth the wait and withdrawal symptoms... A question though as I said I'm getting all five individually released Colletts plus the ones in the Bristolian pack. Would the eight coaches make a standard rake or would I need to pick up any extra of a particular one? The problem I see is that you will have 4 brake third coaches in a rake of 8, which unless it is a train that drops off/picks up coaches along the route to be taken forward by another loco (e.g. Up a branch?) is somewhat unbalanced. IMHO More thirds to fill up the middle of the rake would be more prototypical. Unless someone knows otherwise! Keith EDIT there were nearly 4 times as many thirds produced as brake thirds and just over half as many compos as brakes so assuming 2 brakes per train means 4 thirds & maybe a composite. (Assuming a complete rake of the same period) Edited March 11, 2016 by melmerby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 I received my intitial four GWR Collett Bow Ended todays and now waiting on a GWR Collett Coach Corridor 3rd. I've also got the The Bristolian Train Pack on pre-order which should build up a good looking rake once they arrive Very impressed with them. Excellent quality and liveries and well worth the wait and withdrawal symptoms... A question though as I said I'm getting all five individually released Colletts plus the ones in the Bristolian pack. Would the eight coaches make a standard rake or would I need to pick up any extra of a particular one? What do you mean by "standard rake"? In BR days at least there were what were called "standard 8 coach trains" and "standard 10 coach trains" assembled mostly for summer Saturday extras. These had brake thirds/seconds at the outer ends and a pair of composites in the middle, the remaining vehicles being thirds/seconds. Most other services were formed according to the expected demand and strengthened as necessary. As for the Bristolian, this was usually a dedicated set made up of the latest stock. Something in the back of my mind is telling me that the Bristolian dates from the mid 1930s. When I am less busy I will have a rummage to find out more. Chris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 I received my intitial four GWR Collett Bow Ended todays and now waiting on a GWR Collett Coach Corridor 3rd. I've also got the The Bristolian Train Pack on pre-order which should build up a good looking rake once they arrive Very impressed with them. Excellent quality and liveries and well worth the wait and withdrawal symptoms... A question though as I said I'm getting all five individually released Colletts plus the ones in the Bristolian pack. Would the eight coaches make a standard rake or would I need to pick up any extra of a particular one? As Chris says the Bristolian was composed of 'modern' stock. It began running in 1935 and Collett 1925 stock was not the norm by any means. The inaugural run was composed of Centenary stock with KGV, but this was a one off. Low waistband stock such as D121 brakes, C71 thirds were more often than not included in the 1936 formations. Due to the short time run there was a buffet rather than a diner in the 1930's with the H41, as preserved at Swindon, designed for the job. Mike Wiltshire 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted March 11, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) Something in the back of my mind is telling me that the Bristolian dates from the mid 1930s. When I am less busy I will have a rummage to find out more. Chris 1935 according to Wikipedia Keith Oops Mike has already said that! Edited March 11, 2016 by melmerby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium tanatvalley Posted March 11, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 11, 2016 Were there underframe differences on left and right hand stock? What I have in mind is the position of the dynamo. On the Bk 3rd LH stock it is under the corridor. Where is the dynamo positioned on RH stock? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Were there underframe differences on left and right hand stock? What I have in mind is the position of the dynamo. On the Bk 3rd LH stock it is under the corridor. Where is the dynamo positioned on RH stock? I hesitate to take Russell's appendix vol 1 as gospel but the following may help. Fig 223 depicts 4932 from the corridor side with the van at the left hand end and the dynamo under the corridor. Fig 224 shows 4915 from the corridor side with the van at the right hand end and the dynamo under the compartments. Fig 225 shows 5097 from the same side with the van at the right hand end and the dynamo also under the compartments. In this latter case the dynamo appears to be almost vertical but in the other two it is at an angle. In all three cases the battery boxes are opposite one another and under the luggage compartment. That was going to be the next question, wasn't it? Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG 7305 Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 I do not have it to hand but the D&C "Monograph" series book on GWR coaches shows a diagram of a South Wales 7 carriage set which shows coupling types and bow or flat ends on the carriages. The set is Van Third, Third, Third, Comp, Restaurant, Comp, Van Third. So including the Restaurant carriage from the old range you can get a close approximation to a prototype set. Happily Loco + 7 is the ruling length on my layout! Best regards Julian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 I do not have it to hand but the D&C "Monograph" series book on GWR coaches shows a diagram of a South Wales 7 carriage set which shows coupling types and bow or flat ends on the carriages. The set is Van Third, Third, Third, Comp, Restaurant, Comp, Van Third. So including the Restaurant carriage from the old range you can get a close approximation to a prototype set. Happily Loco + 7 is the ruling length on my layout! Best regards Julian But i understood these to be seventy footers, not Hornby's fifty seven footers. Dean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 There's a good picture of streamlined 6014 (I know an oxymoron) pulling the up bristolian in picture 76 of "gwr in the 1930s" by Fraser, Geen and Scott. Formation given as D141, C70, E151, H41, E151, E151, D121 David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowardGWR Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 There's a good picture of streamlined 6014 (I know an oxymoron) pulling the up bristolian in picture 76 of "gwr in the 1930s" by Fraser, Geen and Scott. Formation given as D141, C70, E151, H41, E151, E151, D121 David Indeed, acquisition of the two books, (there are two volumes) would put this nonsensical discussion of 'sets' of these Hornby E95, C54 and E127 coaches to bed, once and for all. Any typical GWR train after the first production of these coaches would have a mixture of pre WW1 coaches, post WW1 updates, all with a toplight, a few with indented vestibules (the dreadnoughts), a clerestory or two up to 1930 at least, and........... Need I go on? Please get those two excellent books (original photos by G.H. Soole) and also those by Maurice Earley, for example, and then shew me just one train that has only a pure set of the Hornby coaches. Don't bother, because there aren't any (maybe a GWR publicity shot at Rushey Platt). If you think that Hornby has provided a total RTR solution for depicting GWR trains, forget it. You are dreaming of what never existed. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted March 11, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 11, 2016 No but it's a start Howard after years with just centenaries, b sets and sunshine coaches to cater for our needs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 @howard - are there any particular titles with Maurice Earley pictures you'd recommend? I've also enjoyed "window on the great western" albeit it doesn't have the helpful appendix of the Geen/Scott titles OT warning but it never ceases to surprise me how many of the photos in these pre war albums are of bulldogs, saints, stars and dukes. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted March 11, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) OT warning but it never ceases to surprise me how many of the photos in these pre war albums are of bulldogs, saints, stars and dukes. David Because there were still plenty of them around, some even on express trains! Keith Edit: C'mon Hornby, where's that Saint to go with my nice new Colletts? Edited March 11, 2016 by melmerby 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Flicking through Vol 2 of gwr in the 30s, picture 183 has a pretty uniform collett rake: Siphon g, d95, e127+, e127+, c54+, d94 Not sure the differences between the d94 and d95 but looks a broadly replicable train from straight rtr save for the Hall hauling the train where you'd need to alter a product to have the shirt button on the tender David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 HowardGWR is absolutely correct. Add the Norman Lockett book Great Western 1934-39 for actual, on the day, train formations, as thankfully, he photographed entire trains. The first and last coach in a GWR train was often NOT a brake third, not even a brake - that is where the dining car can be placed or even a locked out sleeping car being worked empty! Sometimes it can be a non corridor coach at the head of a corridor train. Not every train commanded a full dining service. Is that a brake third somewhere in the train or has it been converted to a tea/buffet car. Look for a vent in the roof/gas tanks underneath. If you can make it to York, ask to see the photo's that didn't make it into the Geen and Early books, which published a small proportion of the images that are available. It will make you want to start buying Comet/Worsley Works/Frogmore sides. Mike Wiltshire 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Flicking through Vol 2 of gwr in the 30s, picture 183 has a pretty uniform collett rake: Siphon g, d95, e127+, e127+, c54+, d94 Not sure the differences between the d94 and d95 but looks a broadly replicable train from straight rtr save for the Hall hauling the train where you'd need to alter a product to have the shirt button on the tender David See post 654 Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowardGWR Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 All good points. I am moving my reply over to the GWR Rolling stock thread, as it seems appropriate, hopefully mods will agree. Likewise I feel possible posts on improving these coaches would be better posted there IMO, as it seems more logical. I am beginning to realise that we shouted for these coaches for decades. Now I have the lot and I sit back admiring them. Unfortunately, to produce a real train from the 1920s onwards requires a whole host of diagrams that don't exist in RTR! That's not Hornby's fault, it's the GWR's! :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 (edited) @Mike Wiltshire Of the Early books, which do you recommend? In this day and age, there's an argument for museums like the NRM to digitise their photo archives. David Edit - just seen Howard's recommendation on the new thread Edited March 15, 2016 by Clearwater Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireline Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 (edited) No but it's a start Howard after years with just centenaries, b sets and sunshine coaches to cater for our needs. There is more that one person on here in need of a Sunshine coach.... Edited March 15, 2016 by Fireline Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwell Hall Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 @Mike Wiltshire Of the Early books, which do you recommend? In this day and age, there's an argument for museums like the NRM to digitise their photo archives. David Edit - just seen Howard's recommendation on the new thread There is just the small matter of funding the mass digitising of thousands of photographs! We all know what has happened to Government funding in the last five years and still the national museums are not allowed to charge admission. Digital prints are availiable from the NRM - but they will cost you around £30.00 per photograph - they are so inaccessible they might as well be on the moon! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 @Mike Wiltshire Of the Early books, which do you recommend? In this day and age, there's an argument for museums like the NRM to digitise their photo archives. David Edit - just seen Howard's recommendation on the new thread There are over thirty albums, covering mainly GWR but also the big four and a few french subjects. There is a comprehensive index, but it is based mainly on the negatives which number about 3,500. Only about 1,300 have been printed up and put into the albums. For coaching stock, it is a case of just looking through them all as the card index rarely mentions stock Location, date, camera, exposure etc are the main entries. One one occasion I requested the Early binders, there was an exhibition on streamliners with just a few images displayed, as they did not have that many images they could use? I showed the library staff the large number of Early shots taken in the Lake District in the 1930's of the Coronation Scott etc (the best images ever taken in my opinion, and that's from a GWR modeller), which they appeared oblivious to. If you are buying, this is my favourite. Note Bristolian on the cover with not a Hornby Collett in sight. Mike Wiltshire 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 81C Posted March 15, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 15, 2016 There are over thirty albums, covering mainly GWR but also the big four and a few french subjects. There is a comprehensive index, but it is based mainly on the negatives which number about 3,500. Only about 1,300 have been printed up and put into the albums. For coaching stock, it is a case of just looking through them all as the card index rarely mentions stock Location, date, camera, exposure etc are the main entries. One one occasion I requested the Early binders, there was an exhibition on streamliners with just a few images displayed, as they did not have that many images they could use? I showed the library staff the large number of Early shots taken in the Lake District in the 1930's of the Coronation Scott etc (the best images ever taken in my opinion, and that's from a GWR modeller), which they appeared oblivious to. If you are buying, this is my favourite. Note Bristolian on the cover with not a Hornby Collett in sight. Mike Wiltshire I managed to grab a copy off ebay today thanks for the info' Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenway Park Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Visited Derails today and purchased a RH Crimson and Cream Composite. A superb model. Excellent service and stock levels. Will visit again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 The Maunsell's weren't all announced/introduced in one go. IIRC, the BCKs arrived a couple of years later. John After the press badgered Hornby for brake composites at the annual Broadstairs meetings. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now