Collett 'Bow Ended' Standard 57' Corridor Stock Coaches for 2016

[trevor7598]

To my eyes I don't think many preserved railways have managed an accurate rendition of ' Blood and Custard '.

A few years ago I had a good look at the Severn Valley Railway's version of this livery, because, again to my eyes,

it looked right.

As none of coaches had been painted recently. slight fading had occurred, and perhaps more importantly

the tight bore Foley Park tunnel had probably contributed a light coating of steam age grime / soot.

Don't get me wrong, the coaches weren't filthy, but they did convey an authentic 1950s feel.

 

I will leave my Collett coaches pristine, but I can understand the need to dirty them up a bit. 

[Adrock]

It would be nice wouldn't it Rob? Indeed I think we will both be helping them out again later on in the year in form of 4013 Knight of St Patrick. Given the circumstances it may as well be renamed 2016 White Knight!

 

I've just taken the longest piece of waist-high furniture in the house (given my perennial lack of a layout) which as it happens is the kitchen worktop. Track was laid, and I've managed to lay on a nine coach rake of GWR coaching stock behind my 5016 Montgomery Castle. Bachmann Sunshine coaches and Hornby Hawksworths and Colletts all feature. It looks superb; though I really must kick on with a layout now - I've enough stock for these long trains but nowhere for them to run!

 

Cheers,

 

CoY

Sounds great - any pictures of your assembled rake? I'm desperate to open my new Colletts and build such a rake but I'm preparing for a house move so my Hawksworths and sunshine coaches are packed away!

[Siberian Snooper]

I will splash the cash, if Hornby bring them out in faux panelling as per 1922 livery, or at least those built before 1927.

[Coach bogie]

My 2x thirds and 2x Compo's were picked up today. I have run them as a complete Hornby rake for the first and only time.

 

And with additional Collett K38  full brake and H33 diner

 

And as, previously mentioned, based on the only photo verified 1930's image I have ever found of a "complete" Collett rake as a five coach set, though the rear brake should be a 3 compartment D94.

.

 

The set will now be broken up and used with other diagrams as would usually be found in the 1930's.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

 

[County of Yorkshire]

Sounds great - any pictures of your assembled rake? I'm desperate to open my new Colletts and build such a rake but I'm preparing for a house move so my Hawksworths and sunshine coaches are packed away!

 

I took a couple of pics but unless you want a box of shredded wheat, a fruitbowl and a toaster acting as a backdrop then they aren't really up to much I'm afraid! I have to say that with three types of GWR stock that are now available RTR to excellent/good standards - I'd say even the Bachmann Colletts hold up well to the newer Hornby stock - it is now possible to make scratch rakes of reasonable variety without resorting to kit-building en-masse. 

 

For example, my nine coach rake which would run on my future 1947 layout (which allows the Hawksworths to be used!) is as follows:

 

Slip Portion: Sunshine BCK - Hawksworth TK - 57ft l/h BTK / Main Train: Hawksworth BTK - Sunshine TK - 57ft TK - 57ft r/h CK - Sunshine TK - 57ft r/h BTK

 

Not a bad variety at all, and I do have half a dozen kit built coaches of decent enough quality to mix in with these to form longer and/or more varied rakes. The availability of Comet kits allow many gaps to be filled - including the 70 footers, 57ft flat ended Collett stock of 1934 and the 'large windowed' (pre-Sunshine stock) coaches of 1935-1937. The blatant elephant in the room being the paucity of options to have toplights, given that the Slaters kits have dropped off the face of the earth! I think Dart Castings still do a limited number of toplights in the Frogmore range but other than the two BTK's (handed D56's) they seem to be quite esoteric prototypes and again, of irregular availability. Though it would be unlikely, the re-emergence of the BSL/Phoenix range would be a huge help, especially for the 1929 Rivera stock and the ex-articulated stock. 

 

This is without of course discussing non-corridor stock, of which I'm sure Hornby will oblige us with soon. 

 

CoY

Edited February 27, 2016 by County of Yorkshire

[Coach bogie]

 

 The blatant elephant in the room being the paucity of options to have toplights, given that the Slaters kits have dropped off the face of the earth! I think Dart Castings still do a limited number of toplights in the Frogmore range but other than the two BTK's (handed D56's) they seem to be quite esoteric prototypes and again, of irregular availability. Though it would be unlikely, the re-emergence of the BSL/Phoenix range would be a huge help, especially for the 1929 Rivera stock and the ex-articulated stock. 

 

 

CoY

 

The ex-articulated stock has only been available from Hammond sides in the form of the Brake first and corridor first. David Geen has a large range of toplights in both 57 and 70 ft lengths.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[The Stationmaster]

You going for the Huntley and palmers loco then Mike - to haul your Colletts :-)

 

It would be churlish not to go for one (but not for Collett coach haulage) but I will still refuse to be tempted by the large roll of paper sitting in one corner of the study  (which happens to have printed one one side a 40ft:1" plan of the H&P factory site with their entire rail network shown including the original engine shed).

[St Enodoc]

It would be churlish not to go for one (but not for Collett coach haulage) but I will still refuse to be tempted by the large roll of paper sitting in one corner of the study  (which happens to have printed one one side a 40ft:1" plan of the H&P factory site with their entire rail network shown including the original engine shed).

You know you want to...

[cctransuk]

So why are mine a much darker crimson?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

It's the screen calibration !

 

I happened to look at this thread on my wife's lap-top - the carmine was nowhere near as 'orangey', (though still brighter than the models appear in daylight).

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[JaymzHatstand]

Wow! From the photos thus far, these look gorgeous! I'll definitely be getting one as an alternative to the old Airfix LMS carriage that rolls into Whitborough from time to time from the local preservation society.

 

I could easily be tempted by more, if I can find evidence of them getting up North into LNER territory on inter regional workings, with either GW or more local motive power.

 

I've found a couple of photos of GWR locos at York, with what looks like chocolate and cream stock, but the loco is the focus of the picture and the rest is out of focus. The BR photos I've seen are mostly MkI stock, but I presume there could easily be a mixture?

 

If anyone can provide any information, I'd be most grateful, but the bank might not be!

 

Cheers

 

J

[robmcg]

One thing these lovely carriages have done is make the ownership of such beautiful engines as Hornby's GWR Star, Castle, and especially the new-tooling King really great.  Superb models all, and the quality of modelling makes me forget the slight stumble with early Star models...

 

Congratulations Hornby.

[Hilux5972]

Have yours arrived here in NZ already Rob?

[Ian Hargrave]

Wow! From the photos thus far, these look gorgeous! I'll definitely be getting one as an alternative to the old Airfix LMS carriage that rolls into Whitborough from time to time from the local preservation society.

 

I could easily be tempted by more, if I can find evidence of them getting up North into LNER territory on inter regional workings, with either GW or more local motive power.

 

I've found a couple of photos of GWR locos at York, with what looks like chocolate and cream stock, but the loco is the focus of the picture and the rest is out of focus. The BR photos I've seen are mostly MkI stock, but I presume there could easily be a mixture?

 

If anyone can provide any information, I'd be most grateful, but the bank might not be!

 

Cheers

 

J

Before the 1939-45 war ,there was a 'Ports To Ports' express which ran between, at differing times,places such as Aberdeen,Glasgow and Edinburgh , Southampton and even Harwich via the ECML ...Newcastle,YORK,Sheffield and the GC main line to Woodford Halse,then Oxford and points South. As I type this,I am studying my copy of LNER Passenger Trains And Formations ( Banks & Carter) .The chapter on Cross Country expresses is highly illuminating. On page 108,there is a photo of A3 2578 'Bayardo' taken near Thirsk in 1937 with a horsebox leading and a rake consisting of a Collett  brake end,a GWR restaurant car,two more Colletts,another Collett brake end and a Gresley on the back for Harwich ( this latter presumably detatched at York ). Destination boards are present on all coaches.On page 103 is an ex-GCR B1 on the train near Rothley (GC) .It's mainly Collett stock,with two Dean clerestories included.This was normally aB17 turn to Woodford Halse.Then of course there was the Swansea -York train which ran via Swindon and Oxford onto the ex-GC main line.On Sundays ,the LNER/BR loco worked to Swindon .This lasted well into BR days......crimson and cream.......and produced a variety of coaching stock .In the same book are two photos photo of Ivatt Atlantics hauling the train with a mixed rake of Colletts and Gresleys,one taken in the1930's near Oxford and one with a filthy 4425 in 1946.

 

But remember that there were other cross-country expresses  (there still are !!) between the West of Engand/South Wales and the North East which operated both on a daily basis and during summer Saturdays.Would they have had a few bow ended Colletts ? You bet they would...be they chocolate and cream,crimson and cream or BR maroon.

 

Your bank balance is in imminent danger.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Ian Hargrave

[JaymzHatstand]

Thanks for that Ian, the trains and formations book is in my collection, I've just not got round to looking through that for evidence yet, having been away over the weekend.

 

Looks like I'll be applying for permission to the domestic authorities!

 

Cheers

 

J

[Ian Hargrave]

Thanks for that Ian, the trains and formations book is in my collection, I've just not got round to looking through that for evidence yet, having been away over the weekend.

 

Looks like I'll be applying for permission to the domestic authorities!

 

Cheers

 

J

A man of impeccable taste,I see. My favourite railway book and an invaluable source.It should be on every rail enthusiat's shelves. The Swansea -York train is a great one to replicate in model form.

 

Going slightly off at a tangent here but there is surely space on most layouts of any region or era from the 1930's on for at least a couple of these little gems. My first memory of the Colletts was as a child of six in August 1948. We had been on our first 2 week summer holiday to Bournemouth from our home in the Valleys of South Wales .Bournemouth Central to Southampton 30785 'Sir Mador de la Porte'...so my father incanted...I couldn't read well enough at that time to decipher the name. The stock was ex-LSWR corridor and it being a holiday Saturday,we had to stand in the corridor all the way to Southampton Central ,where we changed trains for the direct Brighton-Cardiff service. Eventually,through the tunnel at the eastern end burst the train,which I remember to this day as a set of gleaming Chocolate and Cream coaches....Colletts. It has been said that it was unusual to see 'sets' of GWR/WR coaches and this is usually quite a correct judgement but I do believe that this particular service did in fact have such.Anyway,it has stayed in my head indelibly since.The train engine as far as Salisbury ? Schools 'Kings Canterbury'....again as my late father said as it drew up at the platform.

 

Yes ..I know I've posted this before in a slightly different form but it does demonstrate the  versatility of these coaches . They went everywhere.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Ian Hargrave

[trevor7598]

A man of impeccable taste,I see. My favourite railway book and an invaluable source.It should be on every rail enthusiat's shelves. The Swansea -York train is a great one to replicate in model form.

 

Going slightly off at a tangent here but there is surely space on most layouts of any region or era from the 1930's on for at least a couple of these little gems. My first memory of the Colletts was as a child of six in August 1948. We had been on our first 2 week summer holiday to Bournemouth from our home in the Valleys of South Wales .Bournemouth Central to Southampton 30785 'Sir Mador de la Porte'...so my father incanted...I couldn't read well enough at that time to decipher the name. The stock was ex-LSWR corridor and it being a holiday Saturday,we had to stand in the corridor all the way to Southampton Central ,where we changed trains for the direct Brighton-Southampton service. Eventually,through the tunnel at the eastern end burst the train,which I remember to this day as a set of gleaming Chocolate and Cream coaches....Colletts. It has been said that it was unusual to see 'sets' of GWR/WR coaches and this is usually quite a correct judgement but I do believe that this particular service did in fact have such.Anyway,it has stayed in my head indelibly since.The train engine as far as Salisbury ? Schools 'Kings Canterbury'....again as my late father said as it drew up at the platform.

 

Yes ..I know I've posted this before in a slightly different form but it does demonstrate the  versatility of these coaches . They went everywhere.

They certainly did get everywhere. One regular service, containing all sorts of GW stock was the

Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff train. As an aside, a return trip from Hayling Island to Havant was

made in a Hawksworth corridor coach on one occasion. I remember the vertical fluting on the seat

backs.

[melmerby]

I have a book called "At the Heart of the Great Western"

 

The "Heart" is Oxford and the surrounding area.

This is the grand-daddy of cross country routes with stock and locos from all of the "Big 4" regularly seen.

Also train formations were very mixed with two or three company's stock regularly in the same consist!

 

There is one photo dated 1929 showing a Newcastle - Bournemouth train hauled South from Oxford by a SR L14 with entirely GWR stock, some of which could be Colletts.

Most of the stock would presumably have started from Newcastle.

The loco bringing the train into Oxford could well have been from the LNER, making a complete GWR train but not hauled by a GWR loco anywhere on it's journey!

 

Keith

[Coach bogie]

I have a book called "At the Heart of the Great Western"

 

The "Heart" is Oxford and the surrounding area.

This is the grand-daddy of cross country routes with stock and locos from all of the "Big 4" regularly seen.

Also train formations were very mixed with two or three company's stock regularly in the same consist!

 

There is one photo dated 1929 showing a Newcastle - Bournemouth train hauled South from Oxford by a SR L14 with entirely GWR stock, some of which could be Colletts.

Most of the stock would presumably have started from Newcastle.

The loco bringing the train into Oxford could well have been from the LNER, making a complete GWR train but not hauled by a GWR loco anywhere on it's journey!

 

Keith

The LNER loco would have come off usually at Nottingham, sometimes Banbury. The L14 is changed at Oxford as the train went direct to the southern metals at Basingstoke at Reading via the west curve avoiding General station.

 

There was a train that ran through to Swindon with the LNER loco, often an atlantic at the head, all the way. There are many shots around of LNER locos turning in Swindon Roundhouse on such workings. The coaching stock alternated with LNER stock.

http://mikes.railhistory.railfan.net/imfile/15670.jpg

 

There was also a cross country train to South Wales from the North East, again alternating stock. The GWR loco, usually a mogul, later a Manor, working on the single line direct line from Banbury to Cheltenham via Bourton on the Water.

 

My personal interest is the Portsmouth and Brighton to Cardiff workings, alternating Southern and GWR stock. It could be either Southern of GW locos at the helm. This gave the interesting sight of Southern, LMS and GWR locos, side by side at Temple Meeds.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[melmerby]

In 1930 The 11:15 Bournemouth to Newcastle was Southern powered to Oxford and LNER powered thereafter. (And in reverse presumably!)

Unfortunately not a train with regular GWR stock.

Some trains of mixed stock worked to Oxford with a D9 from the LNER

Not many places on the UK railways where trains were handed from one "alien" company loco to another.

 

A good long distance train was the sunny south coast special which was often T9 powered all the way to Birmingham Snow Hill, again not usually any GWR stock.

 

Keith

[HowardGWR]

Comparing the 'cream' on the new Hornby D95 with an existing R458 in my box, (awaiting improvement*, now called 'Railroad') I note that colour of the new R4681 is appreciably yellowed in the latter.

 

I feel the R458 has a better chance of being nearer to the real thing in the late 20s, early 30s.

 

See attached photo.

 

*the photo shews that it's the roof, primarily, that is the problem with that range.  I am struggling with a brake third conversion to the correct dimensions.

[Coach bogie]

In 1930 The 11:15 Bournemouth to Newcastle was Southern powered to Oxford and LNER powered thereafter. (And in reverse presumably!)

Unfortunately not a train with regular GWR stock.

Some trains of mixed stock worked to Oxford with a D9 from the LNER

Not many places on the UK railways where trains were handed from one "alien" company loco to another.

 

A good long distance train was the sunny south coast special which was often T9 powered all the way to Birmingham Snow Hill, again not usually any GWR stock.

 

Keith

 

I stand corrected. That is a new one on me. I have never come across an LNER loco change at Oxford before. Banbury was the regular change over point as featured in many photographs over the years. Oxford was a regular event with the LSWR/SR due to the cross country bypassing Reading.

 

http://www.steve-banks.org/images/mystery_photos/ccq_oxford_sr_742_2600_975_300.jpg

 

Mike Wiltshire

Edited February 29, 2016 by Coach bogie

[melmerby]

I stand corrected. That is a new one on me. I have never come across an LNER loco change at Oxford before. Banbury was the regular change over point as featured in many photographs over the years. Oxford was a regular event with the LSWR/SR due to the cross country bypassing Reading.

 

http://www.steve-banks.org/images/mystery_photos/ccq_oxford_sr_742_2600_975_300.jpg

 

Mike Wiltshire

There are plenty of pictures around of LNER locos at Oxford, either on trains or on shed.

e.g. 1955 D16/3 No. 62618 heading north onto the LNWR tracks

In the 1940s B17/4 No.2847 just north of the station heading towards Banbury

At Banbury ex GCR B1 No. 5196 heading towards Oxford

1930s North of Oxford LNER 4-4-2 3276 heading to Sheffield via Banbury

Mid 1950s B1 61092 at Oxford waiting to return North. It notes other LNER classes regularly seen at Oxford are V2, B12, D16 & K3!

Many of these trains had a variety of stock which could have included Collett coaches, I suppose.

Oxford Shed in 1954 has D16/3 62585 in view.

 

One picture I have seen of Oxford shed had several locos in view none of which were GWR.

 

Keith

Edited February 29, 2016 by melmerby

[County of Yorkshire]

I stand corrected. That is a new one on me. I have never come across an LNER loco change at Oxford before. Banbury was the regular change over point as featured in many photographs over the years. Oxford was a regular event with the LSWR/SR due to the cross country bypassing Reading.

 

http://www.steve-banks.org/images/mystery_photos/ccq_oxford_sr_742_2600_975_300.jpg

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

Fantastic shot; and what a mixed rake! I can identify a GWR D127 BTK - probably no more than a year old in this shot - but none of the other stock. Is the leading coach a former LSWR type?

 

CoY

[melmerby]

I stand corrected. That is a new one on me. I have never come across an LNER loco change at Oxford before. Banbury was the regular change over point as featured in many photographs over the years. Oxford was a regular event with the LSWR/SR due to the cross country bypassing Reading.

 

http://www.steve-banks.org/images/mystery_photos/ccq_oxford_sr_742_2600_975_300.jpg

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

That picture's in the book I mentioned!

 

Keith

 

[Ian Hargrave]

I stand corrected. That is a new one on me. I have never come across an LNER loco change at Oxford before. Banbury was the regular change over point as featured in many photographs over the years. Oxford was a regular event with the LSWR/SR due to the cross country bypassing Reading.

 

http://www.steve-banks.org/images/mystery_photos/ccq_oxford_sr_742_2600_975_300.jpg

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

See also my post 665..Leicester GC B1's regularly ran to Swindon on the York-Swansea train at least up until the late 1950's in BR days.