Darwinian Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Possible variations: 3a/4a - single waist lining 3b/4b - double waist lining Posible livery: 4.5 - wartime brown Adrian There are a few pictures of coaches with an intermediate livery of choc/cream + single black/gold waist line + garter arms and flankers. Proabably first version after dropping full panelling, maybe paint shop using up old transfers? Sorry I can't remember the reference pictures for this, think they were in one of Russel's volumes. Because I like the fully lined out look and my time period is 1929-30 I've been looking for these in photos from that period and they were certainly still around. Hope Hornby do the full monty version. Darwinian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Hornby using a full panelled coach to advertise their chocolate & cream coaches does on the face of it look pretty straightforward with no ambiguity over livery. If they are turned out in simple choc & cream of one variation or another, it is a different kettle of fish. Nonetheless, the ambiguity remains. Unless they've mended their ways, Hornby's use of sepia toned black and white images is a wholly unreliable predictor of the finished product. I would have guessed the "GWR over arms" with waist lining (no lined out panels) as the highest probability for the "GWR brown and cream" * livery. * As specified by Hornby. (Clearly not written by an acolyte of God's Wonderful Railway.) Hornby is doing King James I in the equally unclear "GWR" livery. At least from the Engine Shed blog we have seen a GREAT <arms> WESTERN livery. Since they're not doing a <garter+arms> livery on the King, it suggests that were there some joined up thinking involved, they might not do a <garter+arms> coach livery. Of course I really have no idea. Because I like the fully lined out look and my time period is 1929-30 I've been looking for these in photos from that period and they were certainly still around. Hope Hornby do the full monty version. It would be nice. I'd love it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
County of Yorkshire Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) Surely Hornby will go the route of PC Models and issue these coaches with a clear/neutral body shell and a selection of pre-printed sides for the owner to choose from? CoY Edited June 1, 2015 by County of Yorkshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Some of these coaches survived into departmental stock, so there's another option for Hornby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Graham_Muz Posted June 2, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 2, 2015 I have been in conversation with the design team at Hornby and they are still collecting livery samples prior to a decision being made on the actual version of the GWR livery to release first. They are still a few weeks away from a decision so please bear with them and I will advise further as soon as I can. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) Nonetheless, the ambiguity remains............................Hornby is doing King James I in the equally unclear "GWR" livery. At least from the Engine Shed blog we have seen a GREAT <arms> WESTERN livery. Since they're not doing a <garter+arms> livery on the King, it suggests that were there some joined up thinking involved, they might not do a <garter+arms> coach livery. Of course I really have no idea. A King in 'garter' livery would hardly make sense and it is a moot point how many out of 6000-6 received the garter when built in 1927 when the twin shield was shortly to replace the garter. The most sensible livery (going off Hornby's GWR loco liveries) is simple chocolate & cream. When deciding on decoration, I expect the company will bear in mind the earliest built coaches would be receiving simple twin-shield livery at their next shopping from around 1930 onwards and those built after 1927 would all have the twin-shield livery. The Roundel livery existed from circa 1934 to 1943 and I know from experience it was not popular with modellers at one time. Things are never straightforward and the 'ideal' would be simple chocolate & cream covering three periods from 1927 to 1947. The LMS was in the same boat. Edited June 2, 2015 by coachmann 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted June 2, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 2, 2015 The shirtbutton has grown on me with rolling stock so I'd actually be happy if Hornby do it.Locomotives is a different matter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted June 2, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 2, 2015 The shirtbutton has grown on me with rolling stock so I'd actually be happy if Hornby do it.Locomotives is a different matter. Quite so. In general, the Shirtbutton logo looked quite smart when applied to small things or coach sides - the latter being visually comparable to the British Railways roundel in overall appearance. What lets the Shirtbutton logo down is where it was used on large engines (it didn't look too bad on small saddle tanks, Panniers and 14XX locos) and the small size of the Shirtbutton looked 'lost' amongst a sea of green paint. Again if you consider the British Railways example - sticking the coach roundel on the tender of say Britannia would have looked ridiculous - yet the option chosen by BR of having a different design looks far better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 A King in 'garter' livery would hardly make sense and it is a moot point how many out of 6000-6 received the garter when built in 1927 when the twin shield was shortly to replace the garter. Photographs exist of all the first batch 6000-6009 with Garter enblem to tender. For published images 'Power of the Kings' includes images of 600/1/3/4/5/7/9. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
County of Yorkshire Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) The shirtbutton has grown on me with rolling stock so I'd actually be happy if Hornby do it.Locomotives is a different matter. I think I agree with you Rob. We could justifiably 'shoehorn' some shirtbuttoned Colletts into our 1947 scenarios as well, as coaches were still being outshopped in shirtbutton until 1942 I believe. They would need to have filthy grey roofs though and be generally careworn by that time! Also, should you wish to re-livery to the 1943-1947 Hawksworth livery, then the shirbutton livery - known as 'the simple livery' in Russell's GWR coaching stock book - would present the easiest jumping-off point, only requiring: 1) Addition of brown band at the cant rail (although not for all stock, according to some pictures I have seen, where the cream extends all the way up to the cant rail - would appreciate anyone's knowledge of this inconsistency) 2) Addition of double black/gold lining at the waist 3) Substitution of shirtbutton for Great <Crest> Western decals. 4) Sans-serif door lettering for 'third' and 'guard' etc. Fully-lined 1922-1927 livery would however make the above re-livery a traumatic ordeal on a £40 coach! Removing the lining on the 1927-1934 livery would pose a challenge too. Cheers, CoY Edited June 2, 2015 by County of Yorkshire 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Godfrey Glyn Posted June 4, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 4, 2015 I see that Hornby have now posted a paint scheme for the GWR versions on their Facebook page. Hope this is of help to those of you who are discussing the potential schemes. All the best Godfrey Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted June 4, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 4, 2015 More detailed info. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) I see that Hornby have now posted a paint scheme for the GWR versions on their Facebook page. More detailed info. Thanks for posting that Robin. It looks very nice. This is much what I was anticipating, though I'll say it's a nice plus to have 'red' droplights planned on a Hornby coach model. Edited June 4, 2015 by Ozexpatriate 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 That's pretty thorough. I hope they overproduce on bogies......I'd like a few pairs! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I'm sure someone will tell me if I'm wrong, but I can't recall Hornby ever being this forthcoming with proposed livery details before. Its a step to be very much welcomed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) I wonder how many modellers will remove the glazing so they can run black around in inner edges of the windows to make the glazing look flush when it is reinstated? The GWR actually did this from 1927 onwards with this kind of stock. I dont know when it stopped but it may have been in the mid 1930s. Edited June 5, 2015 by coachmann 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Taz Posted June 5, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 5, 2015 I'm not sure if anyone can confirm or put me back in my box but I always thought that this particular series of bow ended coaches did not have 4 roof handrails as shown in the CADs but only two which were on the roof centreline? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted June 5, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) These do look very nice. I've been building up some BR (W) stock , but these are making me contemplate back dating to GWR. I even just like saying Chocolate and Cream! Hornby have been under a bit of stick recently over not sending out review samples and lack of communication. But I think it's now clear they intend communicating directly with their customers through internet and relying on mags to subsequently publish details . There is certainly more information coming from them than we have seen for a long time. Well done them! Keep it up please Edited June 5, 2015 by Legend Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I wonder how many modellers will remove the glazing so they can run black around in inner edges of the windows to make the glazing look flush when it is reinstated? The GWR actually did this from 1927 onwards with this kind of stock. I dont know when it stopped but it may have been in the mid 1930s. It's not supposed to look flush on this type of coach. Despite what it says in Russell they did not have flush glazing, having been built before it was introduced. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 It's not supposed to look flush on this type of coach. Despite what it says in Russell they did not have flush glazing, having been built before it was introduced. Chris I'm not sure Coachman is suggesting that the coaching was flush, just that the GWR (for reasons of their own) painted the inner edges of the window black and would some modellers be copying them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) It's not supposed to look flush on this type of coach. Despite what it says in Russell they did not have flush glazing, having been built before it was introduced. Chris They were not flush but they were made to look flush, that is the point. I am fully aware of this, as was the GWR, which is why it took the trouble to paint the inside faces of the window openings black to make them look flush. Edited June 5, 2015 by coachmann Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted June 5, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 5, 2015 More detailed info. 11402535_10152858686230843_8144602068905554932_o.jpeg Rob, thanks for this mate. What is the approximate date span for this livery in service please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) Rob, thanks for this mate. What is the approximate date span for this livery in service please? Officially 1927-1934. Initially there was no gold line between the chocolate & cream. In 1934 the GWR Roundel replaced the twin shield c.o.a. Edited June 5, 2015 by coachmann Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted June 5, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 5, 2015 Officially 1927-1934. Initially there was no gold line between the chocolate & cream. In 1934 the GWR Roundel replaced the twin shield c.o.a. Did they have double lining with the shirtbutton logo as it would make a relivery easier if they were.I fear they were single lined. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) Did they have double lining with the shirtbutton logo as it would make a relivery easier if they were.I fear they were single lined. Double lining in the 1930s appears to have been restricted to prestige vehicles and some Auto Trailers. It was all-but standard of course with Hawksworth postwar decoration. Edited June 5, 2015 by coachmann Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now