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For years now track building has been the Cinderella of the model railway scene, with in someways finescale Flatbottom era suffering more than bullhead. I guess if one has the skills you could design them to be 3D printed, but other than some of the more distinctive switch and check rail designs, would anyone recognize if it was correct or not, especially when viewed from a distance Am I correct in remembering that you are modelling in 00SF? If so this excludes you from using the excellent Exactoscale turnout and crossing bases which are in S4 gauge but can be used unmodified in many cases for EM gauge Templates (plans) for turnouts and crossings are easily made in Templot for flatbottom rail in most 4mm gauges, so plans for prototypically are easily available. For those working in bullhead there is a super 3D experimental system which is being developed and freely available to use as is the track design program. Sadly there are no fixings for flatbottom rail in development, however I have found C&L chairs stick to the track bases using Butanone. Normally these track bases are printed with slots for the plug track chairs to drop into, the bases can be printed easily without slots This is a 3D printed, then painted 0-16.5 A6 turnout base, I intend to glue then pin code 100 Flatbottom rail to the turnout base. There is nothing stopping anyone printing these non track bases in any 4mm gauge (even narrow gauge). These track bases are 3.6mm deep (to accept the plug chairs, again nothing stopping the user to print these bases to 1.6 mm deep, as in my opinion (guess) the bases without plug holes would be strong enough. Certainly you could design these bases to whatever geometry you require and my trial of sticking a C&L plastic chair to a FDM PLA+ printed sleeper still holds very firm (I just have managed to prize it off with a scalpel ) it's as good as plastic to ply. And the compromise of using plastic clips with code 82/83fb rail may be possible. Given the bases cost about 50p each to print there is quite a saving against existing plastic alternatives Good luck with your quest
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Hi Andy, You are welcome to upload BOX files to Templot Club, and then link to them here. Go to: https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?resources/categories/samples-and-examples.12/ and click Add resource. cheers, Martin.
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Hayfields turnout workbench
hayfield replied to hayfield's topic in Permanent Way, Signalling & Infrastructure
Certainly in many clubs there will be folk within the club, if not the club who are using 3D printers or have access to someone who has a printer(s) At the last Scaleforum even whilst on the C&L stand (C&L have nothing to do with 3D printers) and also with James on his stand, I was extremely surprised but the number of modeler's who either have or have access to a printer. One modeler had a son whilst not being a railway modeler himself had a printer, and seemed to understand what to do. The fact is I then bumper in to someone in the village who has and uses a 3D printer and is a member of my local model railway club which is a very conservative club Simply if you don't look you will not find, sales of these items are growing every day in large numbers and its likely many modeler's have sons with these machines and are simply unaware of the possibilities open to them. I have spent the equivalent of buying one of the top class locos on buying both types of printer. For anyone considering building a finescale layout, these are very much self funding. I now am quite comfortable using a FDM printer, next up are the chairs and learning the resin printing process. The help from Templot club is invaluable. Soon I think there will be some people offering printing services simply to recoup their expenditure. So those without the ability to print will be able to access them New Years Resolution Find/make a friend with 3D printers -
Should any TNM'rs want to try their hand at a layout proposal for Flavio please message me and I'll email you the Templot .BOX file for the very preliminary version I posted the other day. I would attach the file here but .BOX files are not supported. Oh, and Merry Christmas! It's still seven hours away here.
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Good evening everyone Well, today has been a day of unspecified pottering, mostly in the office, getting to grips with templot. I’m not trying to do my whole layout on it, mainly doing 3 way points and double slips, but I’ve printed off what I want and I’m now quite happy to do the rest in situ, as I build the layout. The evening was rounded off by watching some recorded Tv and consuming a nice bottle of Aussie red. I’ll finish off by wishing you all a very Messy Merry Christmas.
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Get the track plan finalised in Templot with baseboard outlines. There are several TNM resources for this activity. Then sub contract the point work to a firm like Marc way and then lay them and lay the plain track yourself. Jamie
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How much space is available for the entire layout including fiddle yard etc.? Even at 1:100 you might be surprised by how much space you will need. I can plonk something into Templot to get you started. I'm assuming you want the track to look as realistic as possible.
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Carlisle Citadel in Late Victorian Times
drduncan replied to Citadel's topic in Pre-Grouping - Modelling & Prototype
Have you considered the currently experimental templot plug track? See @hayfield ‘s track building thread. It looks extremely promising and should remove almost all the dark arts associated with point construction. Duncan -
Why not treat yourself to a day or short break away? What about the National Motorcycle Museum in Solihull (can’t be that far away from Bear Towers) or even the NRM in York? I’m sure there’s other things out there that might be of interest. (Come on ERs let’s get some more ideas out there for Bear) Give the templot activity a break, a solution may drop in to the Beary bonce when least expected.
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Hayfields 3D printed track workshop
MarshLane replied to hayfield's topic in Handbuilt Track & Templot
Martin, Apologies that questions were not asked in the way you wanted them. I asked it on here, as it seemed logical given the 3D work and could be relevant to anyone else reading the thread, which would not have been the case had I asked on the Templot forum. I do not often look at the Templot forum, but look at rmWeb everyday, and I knew from your responses you visited regularly. Also to the best of my knowledge (unless I have missed anything - apologies if so) there was nothing relevant to quote in relation to the query. Also I mentioned you because, it is 'your' project and I know you've researched a lot of things in detail - different printers, different techniques, different resins etc. I should add that I felt I was being respectful by directing the query directly you as asking for your thoughts. However, I do not wish to detract from John's work and progress any further, so I'll not ask anything else, and let's draw a line under things at that point. Rich -
OO-SF tolerances and RTR wheel profiles
melmerby replied to Captain Kernow's topic in Modelling musings & miscellany
I have built a double junction, using the 16.2mm gauges and Templot with a minimum radius of around 36". Not a single piece of my rolling stock fails on it. I have items from all the major manufacturers and some minor ones as well as kit built locos and some USA stuff. In fact it's the smoothest trackwork on my layout, creating less noise than Peco Points as the wheels traverse the (smaller) gaps. (All B2B are set to 14.5 but the flanges vary greatly) Even the dreadful Hornby Mag Stove R, but with the outer wheels fixed in position doesn't have a problem. -
OO-SF tolerances and RTR wheel profiles
polybear replied to Captain Kernow's topic in Modelling musings & miscellany
Certainly not the 00 Society (DOGA); the specifications for 00-sf arised thru' discussions and information via the Templot Forum. Indeed, there are those who took great offence to the use of the "00" part of 00-sf, which is why it's also referred to as 4-sf (though 00-sf probably remains the better known identity). I don't ever recall claiming it was - my post read: "Your experiences could perhaps suggest that some Manufacturers have taken a backward step (insofar as compatibility with 00-sf is concerned) on some Locos?" The fact that some Manufacturers appear to have started using wheels of a different width/profile on some models is indeed a backward step insofar as compatibility with 00-sf is concerned, irrespective of the fact that isn't their target audience (they're designed for 00, and always have been). -
Hayfields 3D printed track workshop
martin_wynne replied to hayfield's topic in Handbuilt Track & Templot
@MarshLane Rich, you addressed your remarks directly to me in John's topic on RMweb, without quoting anything I had posted here to which you might be replying. If you wanted to ask me a question about Templot plug track, the place to do that is on the Templot Club forum. Or if you wanted to hear the opinions of everyone here experimenting with 3D track, there was no reason to mention me specifically. Martin. -
Hayfields 3D printed track workshop
MarshLane replied to hayfield's topic in Handbuilt Track & Templot
Martin, Thanks for your reply. I do think there seems to be lot of hostility to the mere mention of your 3D project for anyone using anything but your words, my query was not intended to provoke such comments, merely ask for your views, if you had any. As for promoting, well I'll agree to disagree on that one, as different people will view things in different ways. I have no idea where this comes from @martin_wynne. Reading back on my post I believe I said "I wondered what your view was" and followed this up with "I'd be interested to hear your thoughts". Please tell me where I said it was your responsibility? My post was simply the result of a discussion between two friends which set me thinking, and given the way you've gone about 3D track work (for the avoidance of doubt any further mis-accuasions which is experimental and your own hobby project that others are welcome to join in) I was interested to hear your thoughts on longevity. Indeed, I stressed in my original post that the query was not criticism at all. I would have thought somebody asking, what to me seemed to be a very valid question, would have been a positive - perhaps the best answer was from @hayfield - thank you for that John, really useful thoughts. As with anything new, there are always unknowns in the mix. As I said I dont have any 3D experience or knowledge, so do feel that part of your comments shot down somebody for asking legitimate question. I have enjoyed and been very interested in following Hayfield's adventures with his 3D printer, and congratulate you on what you have achieved with your 3D track work and Templot - please Martin ... dont take in any other way than praise. Rich -
Hayfields 3D printed track workshop
martin_wynne replied to hayfield's topic in Handbuilt Track & Templot
@MarshLane Under NO circumstances whatsoever am I promoting anything. Templot is my hobby, nothing more. Others are welcome to join in if they wish, or not if they don't. Martin. -
OO-SF tolerances and RTR wheel profiles
polybear replied to Captain Kernow's topic in Modelling musings & miscellany
Hi CK, I've just been skipping thru' your layout thread "Bethesda Sidings" in an attempt to try to understand what may be going on. Firstly, if I'm correct you mentioned the layout was built to "00 Finescale" track standards; this confuses me a bit because the DOGA 00 Finescale Track Standard has a Crossing Flangeway dimension of 1.0mm (the same as 00-sf) - however this requires a minimum B2B dimension of 14.8mm, meaning RTR Locos etc. would require adjustment. However, the DOGA Intermediate Standard states a CF of 1.2mm, with B2B of 14.4mm. Do you recall what dimensions you used for the 00 part of the layout? I suspect that constructing a BEF Checking Gauge would be most enlightening (all it takes is three short lengths of rail soldered to a scrap piece of copperclad board, using the appropriate 00-sf track gauges); it may well be that the offending locos just require a very slight adjustment of their B2B settings in order to play nicely. It should be remembered that one of the main attractions of 00-sf is compatibility with both Kit built wheels (Markits, Gibson etc.) as well as with most modern RTR locos and stock without the need to adjust RTR B2B dimensions from the normal 00 dimensions. Naturally if some manufacturers start shifting the goalposts with regards to wheel profiles then this may well have an effect. Finally, you mention that the Turnout causing problems is an A5; I generated one in Templot and the radius comes out at 597mm. 00-sf is basically EM minus 2mm, meaning the "rules" for EM apply to 00-sf as well; the suggested minimum radius for 00-sf is 750mm on Templot (though this isn't by any means set in stone). I did note that all the Locos mentioned on your layout thread that had issues were short wheelbase ones though, perhaps with the exception of the Manor - it's not as though you were having issues with Pacifics, 9F's etc. I have a test board (basically a Y-shape) using a B7 (might be B8) turnout (I'm unsure of the radius, but it won't be less than 750mm anywhere) - and as yet I've yet to encounter any Loco that would fail to go thru' it smoothly (and that includes a kit built 9F where the seller said he was only parting with it because it couldn't cope with the curves on his 00 Layout). HTH Brian p.s. Very nice Layout, by the way ......must have a read thru' the fifty pages...... -
Hayfields 3D printed track workshop
martin_wynne replied to hayfield's topic in Handbuilt Track & Templot
Yes, for a B-7 turnout in P4 the total cost of resin chairs and FDM printed base is about 80p. Slightly less for 00 and EM. But please bear in mind that Templot plug track is simply my experimental hobby project. We are still a long way from a fully usable system. For example only yesterday from John's post here I realised that a modification to the switch rail jigs would be beneficial. So far it is possible to build ordinary bullhead turnouts and crossovers of any gauge or scale, but for more complex formations such as tandem turnouts, diamonds and slips I have not yet done the required chairs. I'm hoping to do some of them early in the New Year. There are also many other unfinished loose ends in the project, and some current Templot functions may change before we are done. So far only REA chairs are done. Hopefully GWR chairs will follow in due course. Flat-bottom remains in the sunny uplands far away as far as Templot is concerned. But maybe not if someone else comes along with a similar system? Anyone? Martin. -
Well said, Puppers. If The Bear keeps up this overly financially prudent (aka “tight fisted”) approach to life, when he heads to that great ice-floe in the sky, there will be oodles of cash in the Beary Bank Account, most of which (in the absence of relatives) will end up in the hands of government. Who, undoubtedly, will spend it on things our dear @polybear would not approve of. But if the bear wants to shiver in his shed, as his numb paws fumble at Templot, happy in the knowledge that the money he saves will, upon his demise, go to fund “decolonising patriarchal railways through the medium of dance”, then so be it. I for one will ensure that (after making a very, very generous air-tight, government-proof, provision for Mrs iD and doggies), I die penniless: the last few pounds going on a superb single malt whisky that I will finish before shuffling off this mortal coil. D****d if I’m going to leave anything to the Government!
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Morning! Easy, come back Friday morning. Going down was a nightmare as the M1 appeared to be closed from J13 to J10 and solid, black on Traffic England. It took an HOUR for us to use the alternative route (A6) and get from one side of Luton to the other. It was strange (and rather nice) when we finally managed to get on at J10. Look in the rear view mirror and there was absolutely nothing at all to see! My emphasis but that statement nails it. Yes, EV's are a solution (they have been for ~100 years in various forms) but they aren't, certainly in their present battery form, the UNIVERSAL solution that the muppets would have us believe because neither the vehicle themselves, their use-cycles or the infrastructure to support them are suitable. Shades of the tragic accident to Concorde all those years ago. Not that I'm comparing that fabulous, iconic aeroplane with Musk's electric driving box! Keep the heat on Bear, it's only money and you can't take it with you. Nothing more miserable than being persistently cold and/or hungry. So I suggest; heating on, a big bowl of curly fries all finished off with a big hunk of LDC as you consider Templot Plan #284B. It's a bimble if the journey has no specified destination or purpose, a chug if "you are going somewhere for something". While we are on the subject, a chug maybe in the offing for tomorrow for breakfast although the destination is still TBD. Of course, if the vehicle is a mere youngster (say ~50 years old) and capable of a bit of speed then both a bimble and a chug can become a thrash. I disagree and would suggest that the distinction is very clear; petrol and diesel are merely fuels and will not combust on their own unless something else provides the conditions for them to do so (elevated temperature above flash points, sparks etc). Lithium batteries in particular are very susceptible to spontaneous combustion due to latent damage whether that be from actual physical damage, damage through use brought about through incorrect charging/discharging or their own degradation through use. I've got a little test for us. I'll go and stick a screwdriver through the side of a tank of diesel, you can stick a screw driver into the side of a Lithium battery. Good luck .... Of course, once a vehicle is on fire the other combustible material in it cares not a jot as to "where the flame came from that set fire to it" so it is entirely irrelevant IMVHO. Another excellent and spot on statement @jamie92208. This is the reason why the various "early scrappage" schemes are a total nonsense and a cynical person such as myself would suggest that they are intended to a) keep the manufactures and the economy going and b) mislead the unthinking into believing they are saving the planet. They are not, the carbon cost has already been spent and in most cases the actual benefit in energy reduction in use (i.e. the difference between old and new) will never outweigh the carbon cost of the completely new item. Yes, scrap and re-cycle when the item is truly at end of life but don't try justifying your (that's the Royal your not you Jamie!) new car by claiming you are saving the planet when there is plenty of life left in the old one. I'll jump off my soapbox now. ION The quiet before the storm. Junior Puppers and the Junior Junior Puppers are coming over later for dinner. I believe Santa maybe parading down the road after nightfall on the back of an old farm trailer later so that will cause much excitement and a sudden loss of all my loose change when a yellow bucket gets shoved through the front door by on e of Santa's helpers. I had an invitation to go on a chug over to Hitchin this morning. I declined because it doesn't look very inspiring out there today. Perhaps I'll do some more fiddling with Jupiter. TTFN
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The maths around buying traditional jigs against buying a filament printer soon favour the latter, aside from track bases and then other useful bits. Going from Templot to print without the angst of hoping your own drawing is watertight and viable is a real plus in moving to new technology. Thank you John (plus James and Martin) for exploring this development.
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Hayfields 3D printed track workshop
martin_wynne replied to hayfield's topic in Handbuilt Track & Templot
Hi John, I think you had the rail too far forward in the jig. If you trim it here with sharp flush cutters, I think you will have a good blade, after fettling it in position: For an "A" size blade, the planing length from the tip to where the filing runs out should be 22mm in 4mm/ft scale. The filing should run out at the same place on the front as on the back. _________________ While still in the back jig, mark the rail at 20mm from the end of the jig. This will be the position of the finished blade tip. After removing it from the jig, you may want to pre-trim it at the 20mm mark using sharp flush cutters (e.g. as supplied with the Kingroon printer). When inserting it in the front jig, the trimmed end should again be at 20mm from the end of the jig. At that point the end of the rail foot should be just flush with the filing face, so that it doesn't get filed. If not you can move the rail forward or back a little until it is -- this is due to normal variations in FDM printing. At that business end of the jig the bolt should be barely tight (almost loose), otherwise the rail will be pushed away from the jig and over-filed. Tighten the bolt at the other end fully to prevent the rail moving. After filing, the blade should come to a sharp knife edge at the tip, with the rail foot barely touched. Some care is needed in locating the rail in the jig to achieve this. If filing the back has caused the filed end to curl slightly, it needs to be straightened to lie flush in the front jig. The default filing angle for the front jigs is 17.5 degrees. If you find with your rail section that you are filing too much of the rail foot, the angle can be increased in the Templot settings and another jig made. There is more to these jigs than meets the eye, and some practice is needed. 🙂 Full jig instructions: https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/using-the-templot-rail-filing-jigs.728/ cheers, Martin.
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Hayfields turnout workbench
martin_wynne replied to hayfield's topic in Permanent Way, Signalling & Infrastructure
Hi John, The point you didn't make is that the front jigs are designed to accept blades which have first been filed on the back in a back filing jig (of the same switch size). While still in the back jig, mark the rail at 20mm from the end of the jig. This will be the position of the finished blade tip. After removing it from the jig, you may want to pre-trim it at the 20mm mark using sharp flush cutters (e.g. as supplied with the Kingroon printer). When inserting it in the front jig, the trimmed end should again be at 20mm from the end of the jig. At that point the end of the rail foot should be just flush with the filing face, so that it doesn't get filed. If not you can move the rail forward or back a little until it is -- this is due to normal variations in FDM printing. At that business end of the jig the bolt should be barely tight (almost loose), otherwise the rail will be pushed away from the jig and over-filed. Tighten the bolt at the other end fully to prevent the rail moving. After filing, the blade should come to a sharp knife edge at the tip, with the rail foot barely touched. Some care is needed in locating the rail in the jig to achieve this. If filing the back has caused the filed end to curl slightly, it needs to be straightened to lie flush in the front jig. The default filing angle for the front jigs is 17.5 degrees. If you find with your rail section that you are filing too much of the rail foot, the angle can be increased in the Templot settings and another jig made. There is more to these jigs than meets the eye, and some practice is needed. 🙂 Full jig instructions: https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/using-the-templot-rail-filing-jigs.728/ cheers, Martin. -
Turnouts are left hand or right hand. I've recently replaced a hand-built double slip with a Finetrax kit 00sf, the spacing depends on your track centres. Wayne allows a lot of extra rail so you can cut them to length and add or remove sleepers as required. I've had no trouble with the double slip at all, even continental stock runs through it as well as locos with Gibson and Ultrascale wheels. Remember if you're doing a curved crossover you need 2 point kits of the same hand. simply bend the kits on the Templot template. the effect ooks far better than the Peco idea of using a left hand and right hand point. Because the model is based on the prototype, the radius is unlikely to go below a set parameter on the Templot template. On Template set your main radius, make double track with your set centres, insert turnout in curve, roll to desired position, then make crossover. Easy once you know how. -
Yes, you can change a lot of things although I not sure about spacing. It's much simpler to just use a different scale and let Templot do all the work, particularly for turnouts. There is a preset for that scale. I don't remember what it's called.
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Hi all, Insofar as the 00-sf single and double slips are concerned, if I started with a B-7 Turnout in Templot and then simple convert this to a single/double slip then will the resulting template generated be the same as the British Finescale Kit? The reason I ask is there seems to be a very slight difference in length between the Templot Template and the template shown on the BF website. The reason I ask is purely for the purposes of generating a layout plan using Templot - where the appropriate kit could be used without any issue. Also, is a B-7 Turnout suitable for use with both large RTR and Kitbuilt** Locos without issue (e.g. too sharp/tight etc.)? (** I realise that sideplay on the wheelsets also has a bearing here). Many thanks, Brian
