Castle Aching

[Edwardian]

To my eye the church of St Mary with St Peter Oldham "designed in the Gothic Revival Style by  Richard Lane,a Manchester-based Architect"  

 is interesting because it is still at the point in pre-Victorian Britain where architects prided themselves in being able to deliver in any style they and the client considered appropriate. Wyatt was the prime example of a theatrical designer in stone (and wrought iron for Brunel at Paddington).

 

Oldham's exterior still has the look of a 'Million Pound Church' - a minimalist nominally spiky Gothic job, the Post Waterloo outcome of squeezing as many churches as possible out of the sum allocated in the Acts to 'saving' the terrifying mobs up in the industrial areas from 'Godless Revolution'.

 

The Oxford Revolution and the true Battle of the Styles lay just around the corner. 

My heroes are Pugin, Butterfield, Waterhouse and Scott, who, Pevsner argued, were the true adventurers. Delivering new building types for industrialising Britain they broke all the Classical rules - opening the way to modern architectural design.

dh

 

I used to appear at Oldham County Court with some frequency many years ago.  It used to be in the town centre, in an alleyway close to the church.  Across from the church is the rather less imaginative Greek Revival town hall, which is recognisable in photographs of Churchill as newly returned Liberal MP in 1904.

 

Anyway, I used to take the train from Manchester Victoria and walk to court, then they moved the court to a new out-of-town DIY Superstore-like location in a building with no redeeming aesthetic merit.  I had to drive to Oldham after that. I learn to my horror that the familiar Oldham stations, Werneth, Central and Mumps on the L&Y "Oldham Loop", have since closed. 

 

I agree that the church is more appliqué Gothic than the inherently Gothic designs of the '60s and '70s; the Gothic style is applied to forms that could equally have been finished in a classical style.  Note the balconies inside, just like any Eighteenth Century church or chapel.  Like Stawberry Hill Gothick, the bones are those of English Classicism, even if the skin is Mediaeval. 

 

Even so, the building has a great appeal to me, and the interior, like some Pugin House of Lords committee room on steroids, is wonderful to behold. I love it.

 

There is some great High Gothic just down the road in Rochdale in the form of Crossland's 1860s town hall. On a larger scale is Manchester's, by your man Alfred - Natural History Museum - Waterhouse himself. 

 

 

While we have churches and style in mind you might like to look at a couple of links to Two churches fairly near to me, and both built in the Cromwell Period,

The Foremark church being plain and undecorated with a triple deck pulpit and box pews, the only stained glass being in the East window. 

 

https://derbyshirechurches.org/church/foremark-st-saviour

 

At Staunton Harold (perhaps 4 miles away from Foremark as the crow flies)

Built by a young Cavalier, Who lost his head for upsetting Cromwell in doing so.

Decorated and worth a visit 

 

www.nationaltrust.org.uk/staunton-harold-church

 

The difference between the two is remarkable.

 

I am a big fan of Staunton Harold built, as you say, in defiance of Cromwell, who, IIRC, had demanded that the Cavalier in question raise a regiment of foot.  Not only did he spend the money on the church instead, but chose n almost anachronistically traditional style, reflecting his adherence to the Laudian, rather than Puritan, C of E.

 

Staunton Harold has come up before,however,and I recall posting a picture of its most remarkable feature, the creation roof painting.

 

Foremark is a new one on me.  Perhaps its plainness reflects the attempt at inclusiveness by the Restoration C of E.  Believe it or not, my undergraduate thesis was on the religious policy of Charles II.  I suspect I spent longer thinking about it than he did.

[Compound2632]

If your parish church has had some Victorian restoration work, it's quite likely that the the ubiquitous George Gilbert Scott will have been involved - at least if the Rector wanted and could afford a high quality historically-informed piece of work (finescale, if you like). Though on the day, you might have got one of his sons - John Oldrid Scott if you were lucky - or other minions. Scott had a very large practice. There's a story that, getting off the Midland train from London one day, he went straight to the telegraph office and sent to his office an urgent telegram: In Manchester. Why?

[corneliuslundie]

Interesting the comment about architects in the earlier Victorian period turning their hands to a variety of styles. The same topic comes up in a book I recently borrowed from the library, "Britain's 100 best railway stations" by Simon Jenkins. Lovely photos by the way.

Jonathan

[Nearholmer]

That made me chuckle.

 

One Monday morning about 25 years ago, I made sure I was up nice and early, in order to get to Canary Wharf by 7:45, for an 08:00 meeting.

 

On arrival, I realised I had no papers, so phoned the office. Luckily my secretary was in early.

 

“Why are you at Canary Wharf?” She asked. “Your 8 o’clock is at Paddington.”

 

You’ve all see the opening of ‘Four Weddings and a Funeral”, I guess.

[Hroth]

Ok, Lion has eaten the duck (Uhuhuhhhh...)

 

As promised* when Sem showed his retro suitcase/trainset, I've dug out some of my old tinplate stuff.  Sadly, I can't remember where I put the box containing the tender loco similar to the one in Sems pictures, but I do have (Its difficult to lose) the 50s Hornby trainset I got at a jumble sale, at a time when such things went for peanuts!

 

The box lid is that from the Hornby set.  A remarkable similarity to the 0-4-0 inside, eh?

 

Behind the Hornby train, and in the second picture is a slightly more sophisticated item, a Basset Lowke "Cigarette" loco. Smoke yourself to death, collect the coupons, etc....  Its battered, I don't have the tender and it doesn't run.  But it was my uncles and so I keep it for sentimental reasons.

 

 

 

(The photos are possibly the worst I've taken for a while, using a snapshot digicam which was the only working one to hand...)

 

* Page 604, 23rd December!

Edited January 5, 2019 by Hroth

[wagonman]

To my eye the church of St Mary with St Peter Oldham "designed in the Gothic Revival Style by  Richard Lane,a Manchester-based Architect"  

 is interesting because it is still at the point in pre-Victorian Britain where architects prided themselves in being able to deliver in any style they and the client considered appropriate. Wyatt was the prime example of a theatrical designer in stone (and wrought iron for Brunel at Paddington).

 

Oldham's exterior still has the look of a 'Million Pound Church' - a minimalist nominally spiky Gothic job, the Post Waterloo outcome of squeezing as many churches as possible out of the sum allocated in the Acts to 'saving' the terrifying mobs up in the industrial areas from 'Godless Revolution'.

 

The Oxford Revolution and the true Battle of the Styles lay just around the corner. 

My heroes are Pugin, Butterfield, Waterhouse and Scott, who, Pevsner argued, were the true adventurers. Delivering new building types for industrialising Britain they broke all the Classical rules - opening the way to modern architectural design.

dh

 

 

I have to confess – it's good for the soul, they say – that I regard the gothic revival as very much a dead end architecturally speaking, much like Modernism as applied to domestic architecture. Pugin in particular is inclined to induce a migraine despite a former flat-mate of a late girlfriend of mine having written a biography of the man.

[Northroader]

Now, if all this talk of churches makes you really want to model one, don’t stop there, build another one. It happened at Willingale, and does look slightly odd, but why not?

[Regularity]

Can’t go wrong with a bit of Godwin:

[James Harrison]

If your parish church has had some Victorian restoration work, it's quite likely that the the ubiquitous George Gilbert Scott will have been involved - at least if the Rector wanted and could afford a high quality historically-informed piece of work (finescale, if you like). Though on the day, you might have got one of his sons - John Oldrid Scott if you were lucky - or other minions. Scott had a very large practice. There's a story that, getting off the Midland train from London one day, he went straight to the telegraph office and sent to his office an urgent telegram: In Manchester. Why?

 

There's also the tale of him arriving in a provincial town, walking to site, walking around the site giving his orders out and then the clerk of works politely pointing out that this is Mr. Waterhouse's project and that his own is a little further on and the next right. 

[Caley Jim]

If it's Gilbert Scott you want, there's not much to beat this

 

 

Jim (BDS Glas 1969)

[Regularity]

If it's Gilbert Scott you want, there's not much to beat this

 

Uni 1.jpg

 

Jim (BDS Glas 1969)

Apparently getting the funding for that was likened to pulling teeth...

[Compound2632]

If it's Gilbert Scott you want, there's not much to beat this

 

Uni 1.jpg

 

Jim (BDS Glas 1969)

 

Not much, but...

 

[nick_bastable]

Sorry this may be irrelevant:

I tried dropping the tin church a la Shillong roof onto your photo and decided the straightforward clerestory might be less 'busy' in a quick computer exercise this morning.

drill hall roof.jpg

Very much up for the Brampton walk - lets drive over the old Duke's railway across to the Alston viaduct on the way back. Excellent Philip Webb church with Burne-Jones windows.

dh

just a thought would the roof not have skylights ?

 

Nick

[Edwardian]

just a thought would the roof not have skylights ?

 

Nick

 

Glazed clerestory

[Hroth]

Glazed clerestory

Just don't use the ones from Triang!

 

 

As for Ecclesiastical Establishments

 

 

This one might be too big.

 

Its another Gilbert Scott, but a later one... 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2019 by Hroth

[Annie]

The Derby Registers caption says "showing correct method of loading casks". This photo was taken on 12 November 1920; the method of loading more-or-less tallies with a BR document of 1957 - see fig. 2 in section 7.

I love photos like this one.  There are so many details that are of use to a model-maker.  Brilliant stuff.

[corneliuslundie]

" It happened at Willingale, and does look slightly odd, but why not?"

And also at Swaffham Prior - one was called St Cyriac and St Julitta (dedicated to Saint Quiricus and Saint Julietta), the other was St Mary's. It appears that over the years the congregation swapped back and forth. i suppose it is easier to repair a roof of you are not constantly using the building.

(dedicated to Saint Quiricus and Saint Julietta)

Both very old, none of your Victorian restorations here.

Jonathan

[DonB]

Two Churches?  no problem.... www.nationaltrust.org.uk/coughton-court

 

original RC church forced to become Protestant during the reformation. a second RC church built later by staunchly RC family, a little way along the site entrance drive 

See site map on web site. 

Edited January 6, 2019 by DonB

[phil_sutters]

I have just realized that I have a second Dorcas/Tabitha window and felt that I should upload it simply because of the glorious names involved.

 

[Martin S-C]

I love photos like this one.  There are so many details that are of use to a model-maker.  Brilliant stuff.

I agree. RM web needs a thread dedicated to wagons and their loads. So useful.

[martinT]

And also at Swaffham Prior - one was called St Cyriac and St Julitta (dedicated to Saint Quiricus and Saint Julietta), the other was St Mary's. It appears that over the years the congregation swapped back and forth. i suppose it is easier to repair a roof of you are not constantly using the building.

(dedicated to Saint Quiricus and Saint Julietta)

Both very old, none of your Victorian restorations here.

Jonathan

The church in use since 1903 - after major rebuilding - is St Mary's. It is notable for some extraordinary stained glass installed in c1920 as a Memorial to the fallen of the village. The windows depict scenes of the trenches, tanks, a Zeppelin, biplanes, a U boat, & more. To find them in a church is a bit unsettling. There are some photos on Geograph, for instance see: https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2334908  and https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2968494

 

 

Martin

[ianathompson]

Why stop at two churches in one churchyard?

 

Reepham (also in Norfolk) has two that are joined by a vestry but according to Wikipedia (usual caveats) apparently it once had three next to one another, although the third burnt down in 1543.

 

Ian T

[RedGemAlchemist]

Why stop at two churches in one churchyard?

 

Reepham (also in Norfolk) has two that are joined by a vestry but according to Wikipedia (usual caveats) apparently it once had three next to one another, although the third burnt down in 1543.

 

Ian T

Indeed. Here's a nice page about them.

http://www.norfolkchurches.co.uk/threeinone/threeinone.htm

Actually, check out this website for churches in general. Really good inspiration on here. Also reading it is kind of addictive. Easy to get lost in a topic that's far more interesting than it has any real right to be.

[phil_sutters]

The Zeppelin is an unusual subject. Those involved in early air warfare do not have many memorials. The Saint Saviour's Parish War Memorial near London Bridge has had its Historic England listing upgraded to II* in large part due to the panel on the side of the base depicting WW1 aircraft. The principal figure is an infantryman and there is a panel with naval warfare on the other side of the base.

 

Our neighbouring church, Saint Leonard's, Sutton with Seaford, has a memorial window to the memory of a young man from WW1. I think I remember seeing another, very similar, one in another church.

 

Edited January 6, 2019 by phil_sutters

[nick_bastable]

Somewhat belated and I suspect his Honour knows of this site but some interesting stuff

 

https://www.drillhalls.org/index.htm

 

 

Nick