Comet K40 Brake - Airfix B Set Conversion

[sjrixon]

Save keep posting on the other thread.. I've started my own for my own build...

 

I've been in need of a full brake for while. Lots of siphons, vans etc, all in need of a brake. I also bought 3 Airfix B set coaches for not a lot of money. 2 is good, I didn't know what to do with the third, so time to cut it up

 

I've never done anything like this. Plenty of kits, scratch building etc. But all in plastic, so was a little reticent to buy some brass bits. But, I'm always up for a challenge.

 

I was a little shocked with how little was in the comet sides packet. Just the sides and a spru with the windows for the doors. then I find out I need handles and hinges to finish the sides. Why don't they come as part of the set? 

 

I bought roof vents and buffers. I realised I'd need them and also I have a few of coaches in need to repair. I'll see about the under frame if I do make some changes, I think I can do something in plastic.

[sjrixon]

So my first question....... The new sides are about 2/3mm longer than the B set. Is it easy enough to trim a little of each end of the new sides? Hacksaw?

[6892 Oakhill Grange]

So my first question....... The new sides are about 2/3mm longer than the B set. Is it easy enough to trim a little of each end of the new sides? Hacksaw?

Hacksaw is probably too brutal. Not sure what to suggest though.

[Mallard60022]

Fine piercing saw.

Handles and grabs/commodes are not included with Comet sides so that people can choose to use their own, possibly better ones from another producer.

There have been a lot of threads about similar conversions and so you should get plenty of 'support' if you are willing to dig around a bit both on here and through the goggle engine.

Good luck.

P

[Mike G]

Hacksaw is probably too brutal. Not sure what to suggest though.

 

A decent second cut file will see you through in no time - needle file will do. The brass in the comet sides is fairly soft. Just draw a straight line onto the side and file up to it. 

 

Mike

[Steamport Southport]

I would elongate the donor rather than cut or file the correct length sides.

 

Use a mitre block for squareness and a razor or piercing saw. Glue the body halves on to the sides and fill in the gaps in the roof with filler/plasticard. It may need a bit of strengthening.

 

 

You could even replace the ends with Comet ones and dispense with the donor coach body. They are fold up with a few details to superglue on. Oh look you've just done the difficult bits and half built a coach kit.

 

 

 

 

Jason

[sjrixon]

On second measure it's only about 1mm, it's just a touch too big. I've a razor saw which made easy work and also a little bit of cleaning up with some files.

 

The extra missing bits have been ordered from Wizard. I did google about to see other options, but it sounded like the K40 has different door handles to other GWR Coaches? Grab rails etc are easy, I've plenty of brass wire etc.

 

So, I'm going to start on preparing the roof and the old sides of the B set. I'll leave the cuts out of the sides to the last moment to try and keep the strength. Although this old plastic is so thick, I don't think it's going to make much difference. 

 

I can then do all the brass work when the other parts arrive.

Edited October 25, 2016 by sjrixon

[Clearwater]

On the subject of GWR handles, I found this excellent display slightly tucked away in Swindon yesterday. Claims to be all the variations... They've hidden various characters behind the doors, Junior Clearwater is happy to have found Paddington. The display was next to a mocked up half built coach. Given its location, I assume this is authentic but happy to be corrected. Shows a timber frame with steel panels being added on.

 

David

[sjrixon]

Yes, I've also seen that wall of handles. Never thought at the time to take a nice shot of them so I can see what they each look like. Maybe when the delivery arrives we can see which we think should be on this coach!

 

The adjustment has started to the dona B Set coach. For future note, the Airfix coach is held together by the clips on the seating, this is then screwed to the floor of the base. I'm going to try and cut down the seats so I can retain the existing fitting of the coach.

 

 

I used some plastic 'things' that are designed to take phones apart. I helped a friend to fix his iPhone and had these left over, they are quite handy when you are not quite sure how a coach comes apart.

 

 

 

I then took some snips to the vents, filed the remaining lumps and started to file down the lower hinges that will still be there when the new sides are attached.

 

 

 

 

I marked lines where the vents were, so I could line the new ones up correctly. I know the ribs are not quite in the right place, but there are limits to how far I want to take this.

 

 

 

Then the new holes were drilled in about the correct place with a 1.4mm bit and super glued in. I used a small template of card to sit in the rain gutter and get the grab rails in the correct place. Simple bent 0.45mm that I hand in the draw. 

 

 

 

That's the base pretty much ready for me to cut a large hole in the side!

Edited December 10, 2017 by sjrixon

[Clearwater]

Yes, I've also seen that wall of handles. Never thought at the time to take a nice shot of them so I can see what they each look like. Maybe when the delivery arrives we can see which we think should be on this coach!

 

/quote]

 

I think it's an unofficial rule that whatever museum you visit and however many snaps you take, it's inevitable that you won't have the photo / angle you need for your next bit of modelling...

 

Btw, I like your phone tools - where did you get them?

Edited October 26, 2016 by Clearwater

[Mallard60022]

Are you planning to do hinges and door bumpers? They are simples and make it look really good. Fitted before attaching to donor almost every time but not always. 

Look at pics to see a prominent the hinges are. You might get away with just the bottom hinges. 

Phil

[sjrixon]

These are the phone tools.. Mine came with the replacement screen - http://www.iparts-4u.co.uk/8-in-1-Repair-Opening-Pry-Tools-Kit-Set-for-Apple-iPhone-4-4s-5-6

 

I've ordered the door hinges pack from Wizard.. I've no idea what they are going to look like!

 

I assume the bumpers are best done as a small piece of brass 0.45mm through a hole and then filed down to make a small bump?

[Mallard60022]

These are the phone tools.. Mine came with the replacement screen - http://www.iparts-4u.co.uk/8-in-1-Repair-Opening-Pry-Tools-Kit-Set-for-Apple-iPhone-4-4s-5-6

 

I've ordered the door hinges pack from Wizard.. I've no idea what they are going to look like!

 

I assume the bumpers are best done as a small piece of brass 0.45mm through a hole and then filed down to make a small bump?

Frogmore hinges (Langley Models range) are better and you get two different lengths. You can file them to 'profile' once they are in place.

Bumpers...that's what I have used so I'd say yes. Bit of a faff marking up the hinges (black marker pen and dividers help) but I think the bumps are sort of half etched on the sides? Can't remember now.

Phil

[sjrixon]

I've ordered the hinges now. I did see the Langly ones, but I really couldn't tell what the difference was or how they even fit! I'll mark that one down to experience. There don't appear to be any markings on the coach side, so I'm really not sure what to expect here.

 

The bumps are half etched. So an easy job to drill the hole, solder the wire and then clean up.

[BernardTPM]

it sounded like the K40 has different door handles to other GWR Coaches? Grab rails etc are easy, I've plenty of brass wire etc.

The door and grab handles on these have recesses behind them to keep the overall width of the coach down. There's a good view of a restaurant car built around the same time to the same pattern that shows them quite well. The thickness of the sides against the underlying plastic side could represent the recess. The door handles could be small lengths of styrene in something like 15 thou" within the LH recess and the grab handle could be added in thin wire across the recess. Looking at the photo should make the arrangement clearer.

[Mallard60022]

I've ordered the hinges now. I did see the Langly ones, but I really couldn't tell what the difference was or how they even fit! I'll mark that one down to experience. There don't appear to be any markings on the coach side, so I'm really not sure what to expect here.

 

The bumps are half etched. So an easy job to drill the hole, solder the wire and then clean up.

Use a black chisel marker down the door jam/hinge side. Check the position of the hinges on a 'real one'. Get the dividers and put one point against the lower edge of the side and adjust the divider to an appropriate width for (say) the lower hinge position. Score a light line on the black mark across the door jam/hinge side with the 'other point', keeping the outer point tight against the edge of the side; repeat for all lower hinge positions. The rest is now simples.

Where the score line crosses the half etch door jam is where you drill with 0.45 drill. Have a good supply of these drills.

Phil

[sjrixon]

Thanks for the picture of the restaurant car. Made it much clearer when I was looking at the model. The extra bits arrived, so I made a start. 

 

This is the C26 Comet detailing fret. I stared at it for ages before it made any sense. The part on the left that's been cut out is a guide to show you where the hinges should sit, you bend over the bottom and then is sits on the coach. I marked each one out with a pencil and then drilled with a 0.45mm drill bit. As Phil said, I might need a supply of these drill bits! The small parts at the top of the fret are the actual hinges. large ones at the top that go on the tumblehome and small ones at the bottom for the rest.

 

 

You can see, if you squint, my first hinge!

 

 

Then things started to go badly. I cracked on with all the hinges and then moved back to the droplights. I found my slightly iffy soldering for the hinges now covered where the droplights needed to go and also that the double doors couldn't fit two droplights. What a mess! I also couldn't get my solder to flow and was just all going badly wrong.

 

 

I took a deep breath, a step back. Cleaned the iron and through about what I was doing... This isn't a simple plastic kit that it all fits, it's going to need some fettling. It was clear I was rushing and not tinning the brass correctly, I wasn't using enough flux to get the solder to flow. I cleaned it up and off I went again. 

 

I also found a wooden peg that was great to hold the droplights in place, rather than keep burning my finger.

 

First door, hinges, door bumbers, handle, grab rail all completed!!

 

 

The back is much cleaner too, but I didn't take a picture of that.

Edited October 27, 2016 by sjrixon

[kandc_au]

I marked lines where the vents were, so I could line the new ones up correctly. I know the ribs are not quite in the right place, but there are limits to how far I want to take this.

 

It's ;looking good.

After reading this and another thread in conjunction I didn't realise that you had to thin the sides completely to do these mods with the brass sides attached. For some reason I thought that you had to cut the sides in from the ends and then try to get the brass sides to sit in there.

There is now hope for me doing some that I have here and actually getting them right

 

One thing you have surprised me with is the above comment I have quoted. given you removed the ventilators I would have thought it would leave you with a clean run to remove and redo the roof ribs at the correct spacings and a lot thinner than the Horny ones!

 

Either way following this with anticipation.

 

Khris

[sjrixon]

Thanks Khris.

 

I guess your comment is correct on the roof. But, then I'd need to find something to use for the ribs. Get them straight etc. Maybe my next coach build I'm already amazed with the amount of work some of the small tasks take. I'd hate to think about a 70ft with lots of doors. I'd rather make a gwr centenary stock, just one door at each end!

[Mallard60022]

Thanks Khris.

 

I guess your comment is correct on the roof. But, then I'd need to find something to use for the ribs. Get them straight etc. Maybe my next coach build I'm already amazed with the amount of work some of the small tasks take. I'd hate to think about a 70ft with lots of doors. I'd rather make a gwr centenary stock, just one door at each end!

Now you know why it costs quite a lot if someone builds one for you! Re. the droplights; I found that problem with the double door ones and I had forgotten to mention it. Sorry.

Tip re the drops, especially when you want some open in various positions. Get some masking tape (the paper type) and with the drop etch the correct way up, tape across the top or bottom half. Lay the drop/tape with the sticky side up on a raised flat surface like a block of 2 X 1 near the edge of the block. Place the coach side, outer face up of course, carefully over the drop and position for your choice of 'opening' and then press the side against the drop/tape. The turn-under will be over the edge of the block so you can prewss the flat part of the side down onto the droplight.

Pick up the side and adjust the drop position with fingers when it has 'stuck' to the inside. Have a few goes with this positioning method before attempting to solder.  I hold the drop in place with a wooden stick (available from coffee outlets) or cocktail stock and then do tiny solder bits on the sides (top edge if it is fully 'closed'. Remove the tape and carefully solder the other edges. Good, hot iron, hardly any flux and just a pin head of solder. 

Go on, you know you want to do a multi door 70 footer.

Phil

Edited October 27, 2016 by Mallard60022

[Mallard60022]

There you go. Not the same coach but it shows some of what i was on about.

[6892 Oakhill Grange]

Thanks Khris.

 

I guess your comment is correct on the roof. But, then I'd need to find something to use for the ribs. Get them straight etc. Maybe my next coach build I'm already amazed with the amount of work some of the small tasks take. I'd hate to think about a 70ft with lots of doors. I'd rather make a gwr centenary stock, just one door at each end!

I was a little worried about this on my own project. But I found the Comet roof tape a doddle to use. I used dividers to mark the position of a rib relative to the previous one and each rib ended up parallel to the eye and cruel enlargement in a photo.

[sjrixon]

Your tape idea is very similar to my peg. Peg does move about a little more though! I'd also imagine in a full brake the droplights would be closed.

 

Just searched and found this.. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/32678-gwr-collett-3rd-diag-c46-70-flat-ends/ No, no, no! But looks amazing, I wonder if it ever got painted?

Edited October 27, 2016 by sjrixon

[kandc_au]

One of the great things on threads like these is that there are tips that, while they may seem logical to those who are experienced, a lot of us who are NOT as experienced can learn a great deal from.

Thanks for all the info.....I'm learning a lot reading here and other threads.

 

Khris

[sjrixon]

Good Khris.. That was my hope, that I can learn and teach..

 

No pictures today, I don't really think you need to see more shots of the doors! Having learnt from my mistakes of putting the hinges on first, I started with the droplights on the second side. When I then came to the hinges, it was so easy! There were two layers of nice brass, with solder on. So I drilled the hole, pushed it in, a dab of flux and just heated it up. Simple!

 

Then I broke my last 0.45mm drill bit So I now need to wait for the postman.

 

Once the brass sides are completed, do I need to clean them? I'm sure I'd seen that a nice hot soapy bath and a brush with a toothbrush is a good idea? To get all the flux remains off?