RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted September 23, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 23, 2010 Good evening. First question in this section! I'm looking for a book or books with GWR coach drawings (similar in format if possible to Mike King's XLNT SR coaches 'Bible'). Any help with titles etc. gratefully received. Thanks 36E Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted September 23, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 23, 2010 Good evening. First question in this section! I'm looking for a book or books with GWR coach drawings (similar in format if possible to Mike King's XLNT SR coaches 'Bible'). Any help with titles etc. gratefully received. Thanks 36E Phil.The three main coach books on the GWR are Russells Volume 1 & 2 plus the appendices.The second volume is more specific vehicles like brake vans ,tpos, sleepers etc but does have lots of interior shots of various classes including centenaries. ;)They are good for photos but not detailed drawings like Kings book you mention. The third book is by Michael Harris GWR coaches from ? to 1954 or something.This has an excellent index showing all the lot numbers build dates running nos etc. They all come up on ebay regularly.HTH. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted September 23, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 23, 2010 Phil.The three main coach books on the GWR are Russells Volume 1 & 2 plus the appendices.The second volume is more specific vehicles like brake vans ,tpos, sleepers etc but does have lots of interior shots of various classes including centenaries. ;)They are good for photos but not detailed drawings like Kings book you mention. The third book is by Michael Harris GWR coaches from ? to 1954 or something.This has an excellent index showing all the lot numbers build dates running nos etc. They all come up on ebay regularly.HTH. The second volume of Russells can be found new still if you look about. Michael Harris's book is 1890 - 1954. As Rob says these are very informative. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 I find Russell's Appendix volumes more useful because of the mass of photos. I call them Volumes 3 and 4 but this is just my slant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted September 27, 2010 Share Posted September 27, 2010 Wild Swan have books on: - Official Drawings No 3: Great Western Coaches; - Autotrailers parts 1 and 2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R A Watson Posted September 27, 2010 Share Posted September 27, 2010 Phil. I have just added my copies of "Russell parts 1 & 2" to the L M S Essery and Jenkinson ready for our meeting this weekend. Wll pass them over then. Wally Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted September 29, 2010 Share Posted September 29, 2010 I find Russell's Appendix volumes more useful because of the mass of photos. I call them Volumes 3 and 4 but this is just my slant. The appendices are very useful, but for some diagrams the better pictures or diagrams are in Volume 2. Volume 1 covers the early coaches, Volume 2 covers the later coaches (the split is approximately the turn of the century). The first Appendix covers the general service coaches (Diagrams A through E) while the second Appendix covers the special vehicles (Diagrams F onwards, including the brown vehicles), and both really only cover the timeframe of Volune 2. Be aware that Russell's captions have many errors. The Harris book gives a good descriptive overview of the development of the coaches, as well as a comprehensive list of lots, diagrams, dates, and numbers - Russell's books are really a relatively comprehensive chronological collection of photos and diagrams with limited historical information in the captions. The Wild Swan drawings book is quite nice, but very limited in scope and coverage - it doesn't come off the bookshelf very often. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Other useful books: Slinn's 'Great Western Way'. It doesn't have diagrams, but does have painting details and some useful photos. E.R.Mountford 'A Register of GWR Absorbed Coaching Stock 1922/3' Oakwood Press 1978 Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 The Great Western Study Group's newsletter has a semi-regular feature setting out the errors in the Russell books. I am afraid that it is likely to be a lengthy series. The GWR is definitely the poor relation when it comes to coaching stock drawings. Long ago, in a magazine far away [the late and sadly missed Model Railway Constructor] there were some drawings by Michael Longridge but there is surprisingly little else compared with the rest of the Big 4. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 The GWR is definitely the poor relation when it comes to coaching stock drawings. Long ago, in a magazine far away [the late and sadly missed Model Railway Constructor] there were some drawings by Michael Longridge but there is surprisingly little else compared with the rest of the Big 4. I would agree with this. I have an extensive (but essentially random) collection of Model Railway Constructor and Model Railway News/Model Railways and it is quite apparent that there is a dearth of GWR coach drawings. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Perhaps we should assemble a list between us? I'll start. Coaches built for the BPGV line - D129 brake third and C80 third - MRC October 1963 Non-corridor brake composites - E167 (Hawksworth) and E147 (Collett) - MRC January 1964 Main Line and City stock D62, C37, E101 - MRC May 1962 Plus there is a drawing of the Hawksworth auto trailers in an early issue of Steam Days that I tidied away the day before yesterday! Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 More magazine articles with drawings: 40' Brake Vans - MRC 6/67, 8/67, 9/67 K2/3/4/14/15/16 and derivatives 40' Brake Van - MRC 11/79, 1/80 Dia K3 Hawksworth C82 Third - MRC 1/50 GWR Railmotors and Autocoaches - MRN 4/67 Dia Q/Q1 Railmotors Nos. 73-83 of Lots 1101 and 1129 Dia A31 Autocoaches (converted from the above railmotors) GWR Mail Vans MRC 3/47 Dia L18 57' PO Sorting van Nos. 806-808 of Lot 1430 GWR 40' passenger stock - 1 MRC 10/68 Brake tri-composite Nos. 7007-12/7017/18 of Lot 194* Luggage lavatory tri-composite Nos. 7013-16 of Lot 194* GWR 40' passenger stock - 2 MRC 11/68 Third Nos.1799-1838 of Lot 524 (Dia C4?) Brake tri-composite Nos. 6590 and 6592 of Lot 201* GWR Composite Carriage Lot No. 765 MRN 10/69 Dia E45 58' Clerestory Brake tri-composite 70' Toplight Brake Third No. 2366 MRN 5/73 and 6/73 Dia D48 70' Brake Third (Fishguard stock) of Lot 1181 GWR Toplight Coaches MRN 6/67 Dia E99/E104 70' Toplight Brake Composite Nos. 7766-75/7788-97 of Lots 1248/1280** GWR 6-compartment brake-third suburban MRC 8/71 Dia D98 brake third Nos. 4945-84 to Lot 1377 GWR 57' Bow-ended corridor stock part 1 MRC 1/68 Dia E128 Brake composite to Lot 1350 (I don't have the other parts of this article, but it promised diagrams of a brake third and a composite - presumably D95 and E127) *Russell has nothing on these coaches (or any 40' stock except Dia C4 and the brake vans), and the lots predate Harris' cutoff so aren't on his lot list. **Harris' lot list says that Lot 1280 are 60'11" coaches, but I think that is a typo and should read 69'11" to match lot 1240. Note: MRC = Model Railway Constructor MRN = Model Railway News/Model Railways Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Dearth of GWR coach drawings? So what are those in Russell's four volumes on coaching stock? No one expected everything on a plate back in the early 1970's when the books first started to come out, yet they served my company well over the years and I doubt they have been bettered. If there isnt a scale drawing, there is enough info in the others to produce a drawing for oneself and even an etching. Caption were taken with a pinch of salt right from the word go, nevertheless, the books were a godsend at the time, and still are. Larry G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Dearth of GWR coach drawings? Larry; We were referring to articles in the main modelling magazines. There were multi-part articles on things like Bullied coaches (at least 9 parts IIRC), LMS coaches, or LNWR NPCS, but there didn't appear to be many equivalent articles for GWR subjects. In later times this may have been due to the existance of Russell's books, but it seems to have been true in the '50s and '60s as well. In the collection of magazines that I have, I believe that there are more articles with drawings of ECJS coaches than there are of GWR coaches. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dilbert Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 And not forgetting the Jack Slinn/Bernard Clarke tome on 'GW Siphons'. Lots of diagrams to both 4mm & 7mm scales and also a wealth of info on conversions, rebuilds etc... dilbert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 And not forgetting the Jack Slinn/Bernard Clarke tome on 'GW Siphons'. Lots of diagrams to both 4mm & 7mm scales and also a wealth of info on conversions, rebuilds etc... dilbert Another book with a massive list of corrections! I think i've misplaced my pdf though it was a couple of pages of A4 though. The C&W drawings for the GWR are at the NRM now but they haven't even been boxed to allow cataloguing yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 There are also some online drawings at http://www.greatwestern.org.uk/coach_draw.htm Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scanman Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 With specific reference to railmotors, don't forget John Lewis's epic tome - probably one of the most definitive books I've read (or at least - half-read!). He was also the author of 'Official Drawings Number 3' 'Great Western Coaches' - mentioned above. I agree it's limted in scope- only 10 are covered - but one of them is the F14 Toplight slip - marketed by Roxey Models and now in my 'Wundy' box. As an aside I think I read on the GWSG e-mail list of a proposal to get a team of volunteers into the NRM to record the coach frawings. Might be wrong tho - it was a few months ago Regs Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted June 14, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 14, 2011 How about Historic Carriage Drawings Vol.3 NPCS by Peter Tatlow. Covers all companies non-passenger coaching stock but there are several GWR and constituents vehicles. GWR Autotrailers (two volumes) by John Lewis (already mentioned) History of British Railway Carriages 1900-1953 (David Jenkinson) Again not exclusively GWR Keith PS. anybody got a LMS coaches Vol.2 they want to sell? I have a single volume version to dispose of! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandc_au Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 September 1999 E147 B set Both in the RM. . Does someone have a copy of this article that they could scan for me please? It's one issue I haven't got Khris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 You will get the mods after you for asking this, as scanning it for you is braking the copy right law. I don't think so. If you copy something for one other person on a strictly non-commercial basis than it would come under the 'fair use' provisions of the copyright laws. If you 'publish' it on here then that is a different matter... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerbread Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 I don't think so. If you copy something for one other person on a strictly non-commercial basis than it would come under the 'fair use' provisions of the copyright laws. If you 'publish' it on here then that is a different matter... I don't think it is that simple. Firstly "fair use" is a US concept - though there is a similar UK concept of "fair dealing". Secondly, the fact that it is for a single person on a non-commercial basis doesn't necessarily mean it would qualify as fair dealing. From the UK Intellectual Property Office at http://www.ipo.gov.u...c-exception.htm - You would not normally need to seek permission if you wish to use less than a substantial part of a copyright protected work. Additionally there are a number of exceptions in copyright law which allow limited use of copyright works without the permission of the copyright owner. These can be found in the copyright sections of the Copyright Designs and Patents Act 1988 (as amended) (1.54Mb)Please note that this list is not exhaustive and particular care should be taken if you intend to rely on an exception: Non-commercial research and private study Criticism, review and reporting current events Teaching in educational establishments Helping visually impaired people Time shifting There is potential exemption in Section 29 of the Act: Research and private study(1) Fair dealing with a literary, dramatic, musical or artistic work for the purposes of research for a non-commercial purpose does not infringe any copyright in the work provided that it is accompanied by a sufficient acknowledgement. (1B) No acknowledgement is required in connection with fair dealing for the purposes mentioned in subsection (1) where this would be impossible for reasons of practicality or otherwise. You could undoubtedly claim that the copying is "for the purposes of research" and "for a non-commercial purpose", and that "acknowledgement would be impossible for reasons of practicality", but the publisher might not agree... David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandc_au Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Mallard, My apologies for your thread being highjacked. It was a simple request, but alas............. Khris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Dearth of GWR coach drawings? So what are those in Russell's four volumes on coaching stock? I agree with you Larry. The volumes have been invaluable over the years.The captions may be questionable at times but no one has been able to cover the other companies with four volume of photographs. Other articles. Model Railway News Feb-June 1950 covered all the concertinas( plans of both sides) They were used as part of the research for the Geen kits. Great Western Journal covered the 'modern' Collett stock a while back There was a previous F14 diagram available from Tony Hammond as a set of body etches. Regards Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dorset Wanderer Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Comet Coaches have some useful downloads regarding general arrangement diagrams Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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