Ready-to-lay OO Track and Pointwork - moving towards production

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Peco published magazine critical of other manufacturers turnouts?  Who woulda thought.

 

They also gently hinted at the durability of the throwbars, they looked super to me.  Which, unless the Germans have chosen especially fragile plastic, should be just a durable as Peco lumps.

 

Maybe work stress is making me grumpy, but I stopped reading Peco mags for just this stone age grumbling.

[Grovenor]

Weinert are a Peco dealer, and I had somehow got the impression that their "Mein gleis" was being made for them by Peco, perhaps not!

Keith

[Bernard Lamb]

Weinert are a Peco dealer, and I had somehow got the impression that their "Mein gleis" was being made for them by Peco, perhaps not!

Keith

I thought that they were more than a dealer.

Unless I am loosing the plot they were/are the Peco agent in Germany. Got a Weinert catalogue some where but can't lay hands on it at the moment.

I found the whole review rather muddled with confusing wheel descriptions and mention of a minimum back to back and the reference to them being near scale but not P87.

Certainly off putting for those that know no better.

Particularly so when it seems to be a superb product.

Could do a lot worse than follow the Weinert example as the bench mark for a better UK 00 gauge track system.          .

Bernard

[Mike Storey]

The latest edition of Continental Modeller contains a review of Weinert turnouts.

Now I know this is German and H0 so not of direct interest to many readers of this thread.

However the review stated that a drawback, I think it actually said a major drawback, was the length of a turnout as they were around 375mm long.

So how do you make scale track that is shorter than scale length?

If any attempt to introduce scale UK 00 track comes up against a review like that it is going to make sales and promotion very difficult. 

Back to the garage and my 60" minimum radius.

(I like bogie bolsters and have just built several Cambrian kits, you try getting them round any thing smaller with 3 link couplings.)

Bernard

 

Agree that 15" long turnouts may be a hard sell to those with moderate space, but it only needs a few layouts published with such sweeping radii, and stated to be RTL, that would get the product moving.

 

I have just looked through the Weinart web site, and Peco are their main feature on the home page, along with an emphasis with each of their own turnout products that they are compatible with Peco Code 75. So I don't think there is any conspiracy going on by Peco Publications here - having looked closely at the Weinart tie-bar, I would share the reviewer's opinion that these may not be as robust as Peco track users might be used to. They are absolutely gorgeous points, and are similar in many respects to the Tillig variety, which I have used in the past just for their appearance, but one of three failed on me within a month of use - the blades went out of gauge from the tie bar back to about half way to the crossing - no elegant way of fixing it. I have never had a Peco turnout fail at all. So, you pay lots more money for a good looking piece of kit, and then worry whether it will work. Robustness is a key part of enjoying my modelling - I do not want to have to go back over careful work already done (unlike my DIY around the house, ahem...), so, as i think many have said before, some compromise over looks if it means longevity in operation, is acceptable. If these Weinart points can prove to be as reliable, then they will have a decent market. However, one thing they will have to do is provide an English (and maybe other languages) translation, as Google refused to translate the PDF manuals, and you cannot copy the text to use a commercial translating software.

[Ron Ron Ron]

The latest edition of Continental Modeller contains a review of Weinert turnouts.

Now I know this is German and H0 so not of direct interest to many readers of this thread.

However the review stated that a drawback, I think it actually said a major drawback, was the length of a turnout as they were around 375mm long.

So how do you make scale track that is shorter than scale length?

If any attempt to introduce scale UK 00 track comes up against a review like that it is going to make sales and promotion very difficult. 

Back to the garage and my 60" minimum radius.

(I like bogie bolsters and have just built several Cambrian kits, you try getting them round any thing smaller with 3 link couplings.)

Bernard

 

Naughty naughty Bernard, you have said the "S" word again ! 

 

That's the sort of language used by the people only interested in disrupting the debate and subverting the call for, as you more accurately described in your last post, "a better UK 00 gauge track system".

Sorry to harp on, but without having to rehash all the debate and arguments from much earlier in this thread, I really do think it's important to remember this is not about "scale" track. 

 

 

.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Perhaps they should use two or more tiebars, as the prototype do.That would prevent gauge issues, and spread the forces from the throw mechanism.  It would also look more prototypical.

[Bernard Lamb]

Naughty naughty Bernard, you have said the "S" word again ! 

 

Would "nearer to scale" be an acceptable compromise?

It has highlighted the attitude of part of the main stream media to a better track system.

At least I did not use that word/phrase "finescale"

Bernard

 

 

.

[Mike Storey]

Perhaps they should use two or more tiebars, as the prototype do.That would prevent gauge issues, and spread the forces from the throw mechanism.  It would also look more prototypical.

 

An excellent idea from the good Doctor! Does anyone know whether this would be difficult or very expensive in mass or bulk production? I tried this on one of the Tillig points, using superglued plastic strip, and it looked ok but soon worked loose in operation. Soldering some wire at each side with something non-conductive in the middle, would have worked better, but I haven't tried that yet.

[Ravenser]

I think there's some SMP and possibly some C+L on the little test track DOGA take to shows . From memory it features most of the available types of commercial OO track

[Adams442T]

Interestingly this month's Model Rail includes an 'advertising feature' from DCC Concepts for, amongst other things, a new track system.  The system is called 'Legacy' and it promises a relatively simple self-assembly.  Copper clad sleepers with pre-etched isolation gaps and pre-tinned to make solder assembly easier.  Both bullhead & flat bottom rail will be available and a series of templates for turnouts, single and double slips, 3-ways and diamond crossings. 

 

Initially available in 00 and 00SF, with appropriate milled and turned gauges, EM, P4 and N systems are promised too.

 

Not quite the RTL track that many have hoped for, but if reasonably priced these might be a suitable alternative.

[ThaneofFife]

im going to have to read into this legacy you mention.....sounds interesting tbh.

[Jeff Smith]

Try Gaugemaster.com

[martin_wynne]

im going to have to read into this legacy you mention.....sounds interesting tbh.

 

See: http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28398

 

(2 pages, finished track pics on page 2)

 

Martin.

(no connection)

[Colin_McLeod]

Nice. Looking forward to trying one of these points turnouts.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Nice. Looking forward to trying one of these points turnouts.

I was recently rebuked by a well known modeller for using the word turnout. He told me that is American terminology and that for the UK, the word point is correct.

 

I remember that Hornby Dublo always referred to points, which would also confirm that that is the correct UK terminology.

 

Jol

[martin_wynne]

I was recently rebuked by a well known modeller for using the word turnout. He told me that is American terminology and that for the UK, the word point is correct.

 

He was wrong.

 

A "point" is a single moving switch blade (point blade). So called by permanent way engineers in the UK and all over the world. For the obvious reason that it is sharply pointed.

 

Two of them linked by a stretcher bar make a "pair of points" or a "set of points" or a "switch".

 

A switch linked to a "common crossing" (frog) makes a "turnout".

 

Calling the entire formation which allows one track to diverge from another a "point" makes no meaningful sense, and is done only by modellers in the UK, not by railwaymen. Railwaymen sometimes call it a "set of points" because that is the business end of the turnout which usually concerns them.

 

Not rebuking anyone, just clarifying.

 

p.s. Peco get it right, demonstrating that they know more about trackwork than they sometimes let on: http://www.peco-uk.com/page.asp?id=tempc100

 

regards,

 

Martin.

Edited July 25, 2014 by martin_wynne

[hayfield]

Interestingly this month's Model Rail includes an 'advertising feature' from DCC Concepts for, amongst other things, a new track system.  The system is called 'Legacy' and it promises a relatively simple self-assembly.  Copper clad sleepers with pre-etched isolation gaps and pre-tinned to make solder assembly easier.  Both bullhead & flat bottom rail will be available and a series of templates for turnouts, single and double slips, 3-ways and diamond crossings. 

 

Initially available in 00 and 00SF, with appropriate milled and turned gauges, EM, P4 and N systems are promised too.

 

Not quite the RTL track that many have hoped for, but if reasonably priced these might be a suitable alternative.

 

 

Martin Wynn flagged this up a while ago, excellent idea but I fear an expensive one and does get away from the thread of a RTR turnout. Still it will give a much better turnout than those available

[Mike Storey]

Martin Wynn flagged this up a while ago, excellent idea but I fear an expensive one and does get away from the thread of a RTR turnout. Still it will give a much better turnout than those available

 

Quite so - DCC Concepts do come up with good ideas, but strangely expensive in almost all cases. I am not sure what market they seek - it cannot be mass.

[Mike Storey]

He was wrong.

 

A "point" is a single moving switch blade (point blade). So called by permanent way engineers in the UK and all over the world. For the obvious reason that it is sharply pointed.

 

Two of them linked by a stretcher bar make a "pair of points" or a "set of points" or a "switch".

 

A switch linked to a "common crossing" (frog) makes a "turnout".

 

Calling the entire formation which allows one track to diverge from another a "point" makes no meaningful sense, and is done only by modellers in the UK, not by railwaymen. Railwaymen sometimes call it a "set of points" because that is the business end of the turnout which usually concerns them.

 

Not rebuking anyone, just clarifying.

 

p.s. Peco get it right, demonstrating that they know more about trackwork than they sometimes let on: http://www.peco-uk.com/page.asp?id=tempc100

 

regards,

 

Martin.

 

Concur, but in reality, it is railway engineers who stick to this definition. Many operations railwaymen I worked with for over 40 years quite happily called them "points" and indeed, in many of the rules and regs, "points" is the term used, rather than "turnouts". For eg, I would go out to wind (or pump) or flag (a signal leading to) points, I would never go out to wind or flag a turnout! Perhaps the result of careless upbringing by our collective model railwaying fathers (or mothers....) and the Rev W Aldry.

[Oldddudders]

Engineers used to refer to a "CV nine and a quarter" or similar in my hearing.

[martin_wynne]

Many operations railwaymen I worked with for over 40 years quite happily called them "points".

 

But did they ever call one "a point"?

 

 

and indeed, in many of the rules and regs, "points" is the term used, rather than "turnouts"

Do the rules ever refer to "a point"?

 

It is always plural, because in most cases they are referring to the set of points at one end of a turnout. The typical signal box lever says "Points no. 5".

 

It is very difficult to find "a point" singular used on the real railway, but very common among modellers.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[Colin_McLeod]

Trap point.

[Grovenor]

 

Engineers used to refer to a "CV nine and a quarter" or similar in my hearing.

That is for the purpose of defining a specific turnout, in this case with 'C' switches, Vertical rail and a 1:9.25 crossing. But all of this terminology is variable depending on the railway, the purpose, the era etc. Without specifying all of those variables, and perhaps not even then, you can't dogmatically state what is the right or the wrong word.

Whilst CV on Network Rail may be read as 'C switch' Vertical, on the DLR CV means 'Curved Vee' (as opposed to SV, 'Straight Vee') and is supplemented by the radius in metres. So on DLR the CV9.25 mentioned above becomes an SV245.

Keith

[martin_wynne]

Trap point.

 

 

Catch points (CJ Allen, Steel Highway, 1928) [Public domain], by Andy Dingley (scanner), from Wikimedia Commons

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Catch points seem to be points as they have no frog, and therefore are not a turnout.... they are literally in this case two points

 

I've always called the whole assemblage a turnout, and the moving bits switches, and the sharp bits at the end of the switch a point.